Is a Christian really subject to the OT Law?

[Bible Highlighter]

....

You quoted my post, my friend.
But you did not say anything.

Anyways, may God bless you.

 

[Arsenios]

Thank you for sharing, brother.
1 Corinthians 9:21 is a beautiful verse that connects in here.

That is the one to which I was referring...
By my memory...
Hence loosely...

May God bless you greatly today.

By your prayers...

Arsenios

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Short answer, serve each other in Love = No Law.

Good answer.

God is love. We have the power of love in us. Anything done in love, is not an error.

Do respect God's Law, however and consider it daily.

 

[Arsenios]

Good answer.

God is love. We have the power of love in us. Anything done in love, is not an error.

Do respect God's Law, however and consider it daily.

So should discipleship in Christ entail voluntary discipline in labors and prayer?
Or...
Should you pray when you don't feel like praying? (Say when it is late and you are tired and sleepy?)

Arsenios

 

[pescador]

Well, I mean, it wasn't given to only the Jewish people. It was given to the Israelites, which were made up of 12 tribes. Judah (the tribe Jews came from) was only one of those 12.

Moses for example wasn't Jewish, he was of the tribe of Levi. Meaning, he was and still is a Levite, not Jewish.

The Sabbath was given to Israel, but according to Romans 11, by accepting what Jesus did, by faith you are grafted into Israel. Meaning the Sabbath is a blessing for you too.

You are in error here. The tribe of Judah is one of the twelve tribes, but the Jews are a people composed of the twelve tribes and other people who have joined the Jewish people. For example, Paul described himself as a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

So should discipleship in Christ entail voluntary discipline in labors and prayer?
Or...
Should you pray when you don't feel like praying? (Say when it is late and you are tired and sleepy?)

Arsenios

Different ppl have different standards. Speaking of judgment.

I pray in the closet of my heart. It is a dialogue.

I am old school. I mortify my flesh in my own ways. Vigils, fasting, etc. Do I judge negatively ppl who do not skip sleep twice a week? No.

I do these things to get answers, it is natural. No rituals. Just as john the baptist mortified, old wine. Just as Jesus and his followers drank and ate.

 

[Buzz_B]

John 5:39 “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”

While that statement of Jesus does mean that we search the Scriptures in vain if we do not find our way to Christ in them, I feel it means even more than that.

Perhaps it also means that searching the Scriptures and possessing knowledge from the Scriptures avails us nothing if we never get past that searching and onto a working faith in Christ, applying and benefiting from the things we have learned.

John 3:21 “But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”

Do we really understand the following or is it hidden to us by our rationalizations:

Colossians 3:25 “But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.”

 

[Devin P]

You are in error here. The tribe of Judah is one of the twelve tribes, but the Jews are a people composed of the twelve tribes and other people who have joined the Jewish people. For example, Paul described himself as a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin.

Right, because according to how the kingdom's were separated after Solomon.

First, it was Israel, 12 tribes.

Then because of Solomon's disobedience it split Israel up into two kingdoms.

Northern kingdom - which kept the name Israel because the majority of the tribes (10 tribes) resided there.

Southern kingdom - which was two tribes Judah and Benjamin but was named after the largest tribe of the two (Judah)

Israel got scattered across the earth for disobedience until the last days, while Judah (the southern kingdom mixed with Judah and Benjamin) didn't.

Paul was a Benjamite, and was called a jew because Judah and Benjamin at that point (as they still do to this day) lived together as they did before the 10 tribes were scattered. But because Judah is a bigger tribe, all people are called by its name. It's similar to how if you live in America, you're a American, although you might know your ancestry enough to know that you're also German, Native American, and Hispanic. The German, Native American and Hispanic ethnicities are your tribes so to speak, while American is your nationality. As jew was Paul's, but Benjamin was his tribe.

Jews are simply either Israelites of the tribe of Judah, or residents of modern day Jerusalem that convert to the traditions of Judaism.

Someone of the Israelite tribe of Issachar isn't Jewish, but he's an Israelite. Someone of Naphtalib Simeon out Reuben isn't Jewish, but they are Israelites. All Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews. This is a common misconception.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Well, I mean, it wasn't given to only the Jewish people. It was given to the Israelites, which were made up of 12 tribes. Judah (the tribe Jews came from) was only one of those 12.

Moses for example wasn't Jewish, he was of the tribe of Levi. Meaning, he was and still is a Levite, not Jewish.

The Sabbath was given to Israel, but according to Romans 11, by accepting what Jesus did, by faith you are grafted into Israel. Meaning the Sabbath is a blessing for you too.

Hi Devin, in my mind I am not spiting hairs because I am using part of the modern definition of Jew that Jew equals all of Israel.

Jew
[joo]

NOUN
1.
one of a scattered group of people that traces its descent from the Biblical Hebrews or from postexilic adherents of Judaism; Israelite.
2.
a person whose religion is Judaism.
3.
a subject of the ancient kingdom of Judah.

As a child in Judaism, I was taught that Moses was the First Jew,, but the Jerusalem Post would split the same hairs you do.
Was Moses Jewish ? - Blogs - Jerusalem Post

Here is an example of how Jew is used in modern Jewish Teaching.

"Along with God, it is the figure of Moses (Moshe) who dominates the Torah. Acting at God's behest, it is he who leads the Jews out of slavery, unleashes the Ten Plagues against Egypt, guides the freed slaves for forty years in the wilderness, carries down the law from Mount Sinai, and prepares the Jews to enter the land of Canaan. Without Moses, there would be little apart from laws to write about in the last four books of the Torah."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/moses


So, for the purpose of being on the same page, the Sabbath was only given to Ancient Israel and Modern Jewish People.

Thank You for the correction,
Daniel

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Paul's letters were addressed to specific Churches, Christ came for the "lost sheep of Israel" etc., if we go "the law doesn't apply to Gentiles" route and apply that principal consistently and rigidly as is (and not take into account other Scripture).

The Apostles themselves apply that principle consistently in the Council related to the Gentiles in Acts 15.

Acts 15 Good News Translation (GNT)

The Meeting at Jerusalem

15 Some men came from Judea to Antioch and started teaching the believers, “You cannot be saved unless you are circumcised as the Law of Moses requires.” 2 Paul and Barnabas got into a fierce argument with them about this, so it was decided that Paul and Barnabas and some of the others in Antioch should go to Jerusalem and see the apostles and elders about this matter.

3 They were sent on their way by the church; and as they went through Phoenicia and Samaria, they reported how the Gentiles had turned to God; this news brought great joy to all the believers. 4 When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church, the apostles, and the elders, to whom they told all that God had done through them. 5 But some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and told to obey the Law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and the elders met together to consider this question. 7 After a long debate Peter stood up and said, “My friends, you know that a long time ago God chose me from among you to preach the Good News to the Gentiles, so that they could hear and believe. 8 And God, who knows the thoughts of everyone, showed his approval of the Gentiles by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he had to us. 9 He made no difference between us and them; he forgave their sins because they believed. 10 So then, why do you now want to put God to the test by laying a load on the backs of the believers which neither our ancestors nor we ourselves were able to carry? 11 No! We believe and are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they are.”

12 The whole group was silent as they heard Barnabas and Paul report all the miracles and wonders that God had performed through them among the Gentiles. 13 When they had finished speaking, James spoke up: “Listen to me, my friends! 14 Simon has just explained how God first showed his care for the Gentiles by taking from among them a people to belong to him. 15 The words of the prophets agree completely with this. As the scripture says,

16 ‘After this I will return, says the Lord,
and restore the kingdom of David.
I will rebuild its ruins
and make it strong again.
17 And so all the rest of the human race will come to me,
all the Gentiles whom I have called to be my own.
18 So says the Lord, who made this known long ago.’

19 “It is my opinion,” James went on, “that we should not trouble the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead, we should write a letter telling them not to eat any food that is ritually unclean because it has been offered to idols; to keep themselves from sexual immorality; and not to eat any animal that has been strangled, or any blood. 21 For the Law of Moses has been read for a very long time in the synagogues every Sabbath, and his words are preached in every town.”

The Letter to the Gentile Believers

22 Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole church, decided to choose some men from the group and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose two men who were highly respected by the believers, Judas, called Barsabbas, and Silas, 23 and they sent the following letter by them:

“We, the apostles and the elders, your brothers, send greetings to all our brothers of Gentile birth who live in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia. 24 We have heard that some who went from our group have troubled and upset you by what they said; they had not, however, received any instruction from us. 25 And so we have met together and have all agreed to choose some messengers and send them to you. They will go with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul, 26 who have risked their lives in the service of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We send you, then, Judas and Silas, who will tell you in person the same things we are writing. 28 The Holy Spirit and we have agreed not to put any other burden on you besides these necessary rules: 29 eat no food that has been offered to idols; eat no blood; eat no animal that has been strangled; and keep yourselves from sexual immorality. You will do well if you take care not to do these things. With our best wishes.”

30 The messengers were sent off and went to Antioch, where they gathered the whole group of believers and gave them the letter. 31 When the people read it, they were filled with joy by the message of encouragement.

Jesus Himself taught,

Matthew 22:
37 Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and the most important commandment. 39 The second most important commandment is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ 40 The whole Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

Paul who was the Apostle to the Gentiles wrote,

Galatians 5:14
For the whole Law is summed up in one commandment: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord. Whether we live therefore or die, we are the Lord’s.

Colossians 3:23-24 Good News Translation (GNT)
23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as though you were working for the Lord and not for people. 24 Remember that the Lord will give you as a reward what he has kept for his people. For Christ is the real Master you serve.

Gentiles who are Born Again, worship Jesus out of love for him. They are not in disobedience because they are not worshiping Jesus on Saturday.

Col 2
6 Since you have accepted Christ Jesus as Lord, live in union with him. 7 Keep your roots deep in him, build your lives on him, and become stronger in your faith, as you were taught. And be filled with thanksgiving.

8 See to it, then, that no one enslaves you by means of the worthless deceit of human wisdom, which comes from the teachings handed down by human beings and from the ruling spirits of the universe, and not from Christ. 9 For the full content of divine nature lives in Christ, in his humanity, 10 and you have been given full life in union with him. He is supreme over every spiritual ruler and authority.

11 In union with Christ you were circumcised, not with the circumcision that is made by human beings, but with the circumcision made by Christ, which consists of being freed from the power of this sinful self. 12 he made a public spectacle of them by leading them as captives in his victory procession.
13 You were at one time spiritually dead because of your sins and because you were Gentiles without the Law. But God has now brought you to life with Christ. God forgave us all our sins; 14 he canceled the unfavorable record of our debts with its binding rules and did away with it completely by nailing it to the cross.


16 So let no one make rules about what you eat or drink or about holy days or the New Moon Festival or the Sabbath. 17 All such things are only a shadow of things in the future; the reality is Christ. 18 Do not allow yourselves to be condemned by anyone who claims to be superior because of special visions and who insists on false humility and the worship of angels. For no reason at all, such people are all puffed up by their human way of thinking 19 and have stopped holding on to Christ, who is the head of the body. Under Christ's control the whole body is nourished and held together by its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God wants it to grow.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

What? Paul was not speaking as a Pharisee here at all, he was addressing something that needed addressing. He references in the beginning in of the chapter of Romans 7, that unless you know the law, what he's saying next won't make any sense. Then he goes on to compare what God did, and why Jesus had to die with the law that explains why it could only be done this way according to God's law, because He doesn't break His own law.

Then he goes on to talk about how the law is spiritual in verse 14, and says that he desires to keep it in verses 18-25, but that his flesh keeps him from keeping it, yet Jesus will redeem him.

In chapter 8, he says that the flesh is at enmity with God because it isn't subject to God's law, nor can it be.

Philippians 3:1-11 Good News Translation (GNT)
The True Righteousness

3 In conclusion, my friends, be joyful in your union with the Lord. I don't mind repeating what I have written before, and you will be safer if I do so. 2 Watch out for those who do evil things, those dogs, those who insist on cutting the body. 3 It is we, not they, who have received the true circumcision, for we worship God by means of his Spirit and rejoice in our life in union with Christ Jesus. We do not put any trust in external ceremonies. 4 I could, of course, put my trust in such things. If any of you think you can trust in external ceremonies, I have even more reason to feel that way. 5 I was circumcised when I was a week old. I am an Israelite by birth, of the tribe of Benjamin, a pure-blooded Hebrew. As far as keeping the Jewish Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee, 6 and I was so zealous that I persecuted the church. As far as a person can be righteous by obeying the commands of the Law, I was without fault. 7 But all those things that I might count as profit I now reckon as loss for Christ's sake. 8 Not only those things; I reckon everything as complete loss for the sake of what is so much more valuable, the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have thrown everything away; I consider it all as mere garbage, so that I may gain Christ 9 and be completely united with him. I no longer have a righteousness of my own, the kind that is gained by obeying the Law. I now have the righteousness that is given through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and is based on faith. 10 All I want is to know Christ and to experience the power of his resurrection, to share in his sufferings and become like him in his death, 11 in the hope that I myself will be raised from death to life.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Matthew 5:17

Jesus was speaking to Jewish People about him as the Messiah completing the Law(Torah) and Prophets(Old Covenant Scriptures).

Right?

2 Maccabees 15:9
He renewed their hope by reading to them from the Law and the Prophets and by reminding them of the battles they had already won.

 

[Devin P]

Hi Devin, in my mind I am not spiting hairs because I am using part of the modern definition of Jew that Jew equals all of Israel.

Jew
[joo]

NOUN
1.
one of a scattered group of people that traces its descent from the Biblical Hebrews or from postexilic adherents of Judaism; Israelite.
2.
a person whose religion is Judaism.
3.
a subject of the ancient kingdom of Judah.

As a child in Judaism, I was taught that Moses was the First Jew,, but the Jerusalem Post would split the same hairs you do.
Was Moses Jewish ? - Blogs - Jerusalem Post

Here is an example of how Jew is used in modern Jewish Teaching.

"Along with God, it is the figure of Moses (Moshe) who dominates the Torah. Acting at God's behest, it is he who leads the Jews out of slavery, unleashes the Ten Plagues against Egypt, guides the freed slaves for forty years in the wilderness, carries down the law from Mount Sinai, and prepares the Jews to enter the land of Canaan. Without Moses, there would be little apart from laws to write about in the last four books of the Torah."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/moses


So, for the purpose of being on the same page, the Sabbath was only given to Ancient Israel and Modern Jewish People.

Thank You for the correction,
Daniel

Absolutely. Yeah, I understand that the Jewish people teach and use that word for all of the Israelites, but I believe it's dangerous to do so.

I'll explain why I say this.

Because all throughout scripture, it's prophecied that gentiles will be grafted into Israel. That ephraim will become melo hagoyim - the fulness of the gentiles. Meaning, gentiles will become part of Israel, this is what Jesus died for. Not only for all sins, but because, according to God's law, when a husband puts away an adulterous bride, she cannot come back to her husband or remarry another. She's doomed to be cursed by the law that binds her to her husband until either she dies or her husband dies. Israel was the adulterous bride, God was the Husband. God put Israel away for their adultery, and so He had to die so that Israel could come back.

But, because of both God's prophecy that we'd forget our identity, and also because of the man made traditions of the Jewish people, today's Jews say that you can't become Jewish. You are either born Jewish, or a woman can marry Jewish, that's it. This gets people to think that Moses was Jewish, and that Passover is Jewish, and since they weren't born Jewish, these things then seem as if they aren't for them, which is untrue. Passover isn't Jewish, it's a hebraic gift given by God to all people, not just the tribe of Judah. All gentiles are supposed to keep Passover, after they're circumcised in the heart, and then in the flesh. But because of God's plan, and today's traditions (Roman Catholic and Jewish) we are blind to this.

This is why most Jews reject Jesus, because they've been taught and preached a false messiah. According to Deuteronomy 13, if Jesus did away with the law, He's a false prophet and deserved to be stoned. According to Torah, if Jesus did away with the law He is sinning and can't be the Messiah, and this is why I think most Jews reject Him, because it contradicts what He had to be to be the Messiah. But because of the traditions in doctrine people take things out of context and twist scripture to say this, even though Jesus said it wouldn't happen until after heaven ave earth pass away. But yet, all throughout scripture there's verses that say that heaven (the skies) will never pass away. He wasn't saying the law will pass, he was saying exactly the opposite. But you're Jewish, so you probably know that it won't. Especially since in Zechariah 14 it talks of the end times where all goyim are keeping Sukkoth.

 

[Devin P]

Philippians 3:1-11 Good News Translation (GNT)
The True Righteousness

3 In conclusion, my friends, be joyful in your union with the Lord. I don't mind repeating what I have written before, and you will be safer if I do so. 2 Watch out for those who do evil things, those dogs, those who insist on cutting the body. 3 It is we, not they, who have received the true circumcision, for we worship God by means of his Spirit and rejoice in our life in union with Christ Jesus. We do not put any trust in external ceremonies. 4 I could, of course, put my trust in such things. If any of you think you can trust in external ceremonies, I have even more reason to feel that way. 5 I was circumcised when I was a week old. I am an Israelite by birth, of the tribe of Benjamin, a pure-blooded Hebrew. As far as keeping the Jewish Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee, 6 and I was so zealous that I persecuted the church. As far as a person can be righteous by obeying the commands of the Law, I was without fault. 7 But all those things that I might count as profit I now reckon as loss for Christ's sake. 8 Not only those things; I reckon everything as complete loss for the sake of what is so much more valuable, the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have thrown everything away; I consider it all as mere garbage, so that I may gain Christ 9 and be completely united with him. I no longer have a righteousness of my own, the kind that is gained by obeying the Law. I now have the righteousness that is given through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and is based on faith. 10 All I want is to know Christ and to experience the power of his resurrection, to share in his sufferings and become like him in his death, 11 in the hope that I myself will be raised from death to life.

Well yeah, but what is spirit?

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 - 26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

A heart of flesh will cause us to more closely obey and listen to God's voice, and God's voice wills for us to be obedient. We are to avoid sin, but sin, is the transgression of the law. Therefore avoiding sin, is avoiding the breaking of His law.

There are however laws that don't apply to us right now. Jesus is our high priest, standing before God making atonement for our sins standing, mediating on our behalf, therefore the priests laws of sacrifice and ceremony don't apply. Also there's no temple aside from our bodies right now, so we couldn't sacrifice if we wanted to. Certain things like that, but pork and such we can still obviously stay away from. We can still keep shabbat and Sukkoth and such.

Stoning can't happen though, because we don't habe godly ordained judges and such anymore though.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hello Daniel,

Your question "Is a Christian really subject to the Old Testament Law?" is clearly answered in the book of Galatians written by Paul. The whole 6 chapters explains clearly that Jesus came to free us from the law and that we are only, and I emphasize "only," justified by grace given by Jesus Christ.

To give some examples of what Paul is saying, in Galatians 2:21 it says "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing."(NIV)

First of all, the law in the OT is VERY extensive. There was nobody who could say that he or she kept those commandments without fail. Therefore, if we think that the law could justify our faith, we lose sight of Jesus Christ who came fully knowing that we are going to miss the mark of God EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. If we are bound by the law even after knowing that God has freed us then we are dismissing what Christ did on the cross for us.

Think about it like this. Let's say that you are in a jail cell, and that cell represents the bondage of sin, Jesus Christ came to set you free. He has unlocked the shackles from your wrists and opened the door to freedom. If you still remain in the law then you are choosing to remain in your cell all the while the door is open and all you have to do is step out of the cell and live in freedom.

Paul in Galatians 5 once again rebukes the people of Galatia. It says in verses 2-4, "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (NIV)

Understand the context that circumcision was considered the sign that you are a part of God's community. As you might already know, same as baptism, circumcision doesn't grant you salvation. Only your faith in Jesus Christ does. Paul is essentially questioning why the people of Galatia has gone back to the law when they were doing so well before. I love the verse "you have fallen away from grace." Let's remember that without grace, we are nothing. Without grace, we will all end up in hell. God in His mercy, sent his Son, as a lamb to die for us. Let us not forget that we are justified by what Jesus Christ has done, and definitely not what we did.

God bless,

Joseph

Thank You Joseph,
Danie

 

[Daniel Marsh]

How do these apply?

Jeremiah 31:34 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord.’ For they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,” saith the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Hebrews 8:11 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.

 

[bugkiller]

Right, because according to how the kingdom's were separated after Solomon.

First, it was Israel, 12 tribes.

Then because of Solomon's disobedience it split Israel up into two kingdoms.

Northern kingdom - which kept the name Israel because the majority of the tribes (10 tribes) resided there.

Southern kingdom - which was two tribes Judah and Benjamin but was named after the largest tribe of the two (Judah)

Israel got scattered across the earth for disobedience until the last days, while Judah (the southern kingdom mixed with Judah and Benjamin) didn't.

Paul was a Benjamite, and was called a jew because Judah and Benjamin at that point (as they still do to this day) lived together as they did before the 10 tribes were scattered. But because Judah is a bigger tribe, all people are called by its name. It's similar to how if you live in America, you're a American, although you might know your ancestry enough to know that you're also German, Native American, and Hispanic. The German, Native American and Hispanic ethnicities are your tribes so to speak, while American is your nationality. As jew was Paul's, but Benjamin was his tribe.

Jews are simply either Israelites of the tribe of Judah, or residents of modern day Jerusalem that convert to the traditions of Judaism.

Someone of the Israelite tribe of Issachar isn't Jewish, but he's an Israelite. Someone of Naphtalib Simeon out Reuben isn't Jewish, but they are Israelites. All Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews. This is a common misconception.

Technically you are correct, however these days we refer to all Israeli (descendants of Jacob) as Jews.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Excellent summary... A proper literal translation of Rom 7:1 , which governs all that follows, establishes Paul as becoming one of them for the purposes of this discourse to follow:

Rom_7:1
Know ye not, brethren,
for I am speaking to them (who are) knowing the Law,
How that the law hath dominion over a man
As long as he is living?

"For to those without the Law, I became as one without the Law..." etc...

"I am speaking to them knowing the Law"

Arsenios

And Paul says in 6 we have died. Therefore we no longer have any obligation to the law. In 7 Paul says the law died and we can be married to another.

bugkiller

 

[Devin P]

Technically you are correct, however these days we refer to all Israeli (descendants of Jacob) as Jews.

bugkiller

Right, but it's dangerous to do so. Because the practices that the Jews keep (the ones regarding the Torah, not the Talmud) are for everyone. Not just jews, but to those less informed, because of the tradition of the Jews, Jews say that unless you're born jewish, or you're a woman that marries a jew, you cannot be jewish, nor can you participate in any biblical practice such as passover, but biblically that's not true.

Due to this tradition, it leaves people thinking that Moses was jewish, and that only the jewish people were saved, and that only the jews are God's people, when this isn't so. The 10 tribes that were scattered abroad throughout the 4 corners of the earth were prophesied to wake up amongst the gentiles one day, realizing that they had inherited the lies of their fathers, and they'd once again keep Torah, His feast days and they'd start again calling Him by His name. They'd realize who they truly were - Israel. Which is who you are, if you believe in what Jesus did for you. He died, so that Israel could come back into covenant with God, He perfectly fulfilled the law of the adulterous bride by dying for His bride, so that she (we) could come back into covenant (remarry) Him once more.

But by calling everything that is for the Israelites (Us, including the Jewish people, Judah and Benjamin alike), just strictly Jewish, it hides this long forgotten prophecy.

Ephraim for instance, is blessed with being "melo Hagoyim" or the fulness of the gentiles, although it's translated wrongly translated to mean multitude of nations in the kjv, even though the hebraic original words were as I wrote above, melo hagoyim, which means fulness of the nations, and it's where Paul gets the phrase fulness of the gentiles in romans 11.

By propagating and repeating the whole all Israelites are jewish, because of the man-made tradition that is well passed down through the generations, and understood by the gentiles that jews are only born that way, and that you can't become on, it hides this from people, which is a grave injustice. Passover is for us (gentile born) just as much as it is for the Jewish people. By having faith, and a desire to serve God, we are grafted into Israel, alongside our big brother Judah, this is why it's dangerous to say that Moses is jewish, that passover is jewish, etc. Because He is not, nor is passover. Moses (a levite, not a jew) was allowed by God to lead Israel out of Egypt. Which, was only 1/12th jewish. They were only a small portion of Israel. Passover, was given to all of these people, not just Jews, so it's not jewish. It's hebraic, and for all of Israel, the natural born, and the one who becomes Israel after their non-hebraic birth.

 

[bugkiller]

Right, but it's dangerous to do so. Because the practices that the Jews keep (the ones regarding the Torah, not the Talmud) are for everyone. Not just jews, but to those less informed, because of the tradition of the Jews, Jews say that unless you're born jewish, or you're a woman that marries a jew, you cannot be jewish, nor can you participate in any biblical practice such as passover, but biblically that's not true.

Due to this tradition, it leaves people thinking that Moses was jewish, and that only the jewish people were saved, and that only the jews are God's people, when this isn't so. The 10 tribes that were scattered abroad throughout the 4 corners of the earth were prophesied to wake up amongst the gentiles one day, realizing that they had inherited the lies of their fathers, and they'd once again keep Torah, His feast days and they'd start again calling Him by His name. They'd realize who they truly were - Israel. Which is who you are, if you believe in what Jesus did for you. He died, so that Israel could come back into covenant with God, He perfectly fulfilled the law of the adulterous bride by dying for His bride, so that she (we) could come back into covenant (remarry) Him once more.

But by calling everything that is for the Israelites (Us, including the Jewish people, Judah and Benjamin alike), just strictly Jewish, it hides this long forgotten prophecy.

Ephraim for instance, is blessed with being "melo Hagoyim" or the fulness of the gentiles, although it's translated wrongly translated to mean multitude of nations in the kjv, even though the hebraic original words were as I wrote above, melo hagoyim, which means fulness of the nations, and it's where Paul gets the phrase fulness of the gentiles in romans 11.

By propagating and repeating the whole all Israelites are jewish, because of the man-made tradition that is well passed down through the generations, and understood by the gentiles that jews are only born that way, and that you can't become on, it hides this from people, which is a grave injustice. Passover is for us (gentile born) just as much as it is for the Jewish people. By having faith, and a desire to serve God, we are grafted into Israel, alongside our big brother Judah, this is why it's dangerous to say that Moses is jewish, that passover is jewish, etc. Because He is not, nor is passover. Moses (a levite, not a jew) was allowed by God to lead Israel out of Egypt. Which, was only 1/12th jewish. They were only a small portion of Israel. Passover, was given to all of these people, not just Jews, so it's not jewish. It's hebraic, and for all of Israel, the natural born, and the one who becomes Israel after their non-hebraic birth.

So sorry but we have a new covenant that does not include the old one given at Sinai. This new covenant does not include any Jewish rites (laws and requirements) to acquire salvation. Christianity is not an extension of Judaism. The Gospels and testimony of Acts should be enough proof. I do not need Paul. I fully agree with Paul, who was chosen by God to perform as he did.

bugkiller