Is a Christian really subject to the OT Law?

[Albion]

NF, I don't care at all for the NIV either and am surprised that it has caught on as much as it has.

 

[fhansen]

I John 4

11 Dear friends, if this is how God loved us, then we should love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in union with us, and his love is made perfect in us.

13 We are sure that we live in union with God and that he lives in union with us, because he has given us his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and tell others that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If we declare that Jesus is the Son of God, we live in union with God and God lives in union with us. 16 And we ourselves know and believe the love which God has for us.

God is love, and those who live in love live in union with God and God lives in union with them. 17 Love is made perfect in us in order that we may have courage on the Judgment Day; and we will have it because our life in this world is the same as Christ's. 18 There is no fear in love; perfect love drives out all fear. So then, love has not been made perfect in anyone who is afraid, because fear has to do with punishment.

19 We love because God first loved us. 20 If we say we love God, but hate others, we are liars. For we cannot love God, whom we have not seen, if we do not love others, whom we have seen. 21 The command that Christ has given us is this: whoever loves God must love others also.

See I Cor 13

Gal 5

13 As for you, my friends, you were called to be free. But do not let this freedom become an excuse for letting your physical desires control you. Instead, let love make you serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is summed up in one commandment: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” 15 But if you act like wild animals, hurting and harming each other, then watch out, or you will completely destroy one another.

The Spirit and Human Nature

16 What I say is this: let the Spirit direct your lives, and you will not satisfy the desires of the human nature. 17 For what our human nature wants is opposed to what the Spirit wants, and what the Spirit wants is opposed to what our human nature wants. These two are enemies, and this means that you cannot do what you want to do. 18 If the Spirit leads you, then you are not subject to the Law.

19 What human nature does is quite plain. It shows itself in immoral, filthy, and indecent actions; 20 in worship of idols and witchcraft. People become enemies and they fight; they become jealous, angry, and ambitious. They separate into parties and groups; 21 they are envious, get drunk, have orgies, and do other things like these. I warn you now as I have before: those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God.

22 But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 humility, and self-control. There is no law against such things as these. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have put to death their human nature with all its passions and desires. 25 The Spirit has given us life; he must also control our lives. 26 We must not be proud or irritate one another or be jealous of one another.

Short answer, serve each other in Love = No Law.

Yes, the Spirit produces authentic righteousness, or justice, in us. And the best way to describe this righteousness is with the term "love", as it pretty well accomplishes the rest. And, as we know from Rom 13:8-10, love fulfills the Law, incidentally causing obedience of the Ten Commandments. It's how we live by the Spirit, as He molds us into His own image. And it's the heart of our faith, the motivation behind all of Jesus's words and deeds. I can't help but quote Basil of Cesarea here, a 4th century believer and leader in the Church, as I do now and then:
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children."

 

[Neogaia777]

Secular society however, is under law, no? And the carnal Christian is under what...?

The unbeliever is under law, having not yet been condemned by law, and then, born again yet either... As for the carnal Christian, It would depend on if they are born again or not... Then, if they are, if they confess and repent, or are repentant, and for God's sake, talk with/to the Lord... Anyhow, God knows what sin God will forgive each one of us each individually...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The unbeliever is under law, having not yet been condemned by law, and then, born again yet either... As for the carnal Christian, It would depend on if they are born again or not... Then, if they are, if they confess and repent, or are repentant, and for God's sake, talk with/to the Lord... Anyhow, God knows what sin God will forgive each one of us each individually...

God Bless!

Anyone having not yet been condemned by the law, is not a born again again Christian yet, I don't think...

And that is a lot or if not, most of the world...

God Bless!

 

[klutedavid]

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

 

[Neogaia777]

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Yes, die to law to move on... Embrace the new... Embrace God/Christ...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Anyone having not yet been condemned by the law, is not a born again again Christian yet, I don't think...

And that is a lot or if not, most of the world...

God Bless!

Once standing condemned by law, God begins to show you himself, and hopefully it leads to a, or many pivotal changes, or repentance... Then, you are born again, then you can embrace all the many great and good things the new covenant has to offer, I mean, and God will be with and is always with you after that also, and hopefully you realize that and develop a relationship with him... The rewards on the other side of repentance of the heart, most especially... The New Covenant is awesome, glorious, like God...

We will all know it one day...

God Bless!

 

[GraceBro]

No, Christians are not under the Law.
"So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:24-25

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

"Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ..." Romans 7:4

"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." Galatians 2:21

The purpose of the law is for the lost

"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine..." 1 Timothy 1:8-10

The law stirs up sin

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." 1 Corinthians 15:56

The law is a ministry of condemnation and death

"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."" Galatians 3:10

The law cannot justify us

"Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith." Galatians 3:11

The law's standard is perfection

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10

Christ redeemed us from the law

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” — He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.…" Galatians 3:13-14

Under the law, sin is your master

"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

You cannot mix law and grace

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3

"Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:2-4

God's grace is sufficient. Be well and grow in grace.

 

[discipler7]

Is a Christian really subject to the OT Law?
Short answer, serve each other in Love = No Law.

Your short answer that a Christian is not really subjected to the OT Law will only lead to general lawlessness(MATTHEW.7:23) and chaos among Christians and in the Church = no peace.
....... Serving each other in love may be meaningless if a Christian does not fully know God's Law, eg DEUTERONOMY.18:9-14 and 1CORINTHIANS.5:1-13/LEVITICUS.18:6-8.

A Christian worth his/her salt would love to be subjected to the OT Law, either partially or fully(see ACTS.15:24-29), but with the spiritual understanding that it is not the keeping of the Law which will save him/her from hell when he/she dies = he/she would only gain a good, peaceful and long life on earth by keeping God's Law.(see and compare 1COR.6:9-11 and REV.22:12-15)
....... Salvation can only come through faith in Jesus the Christ/Messiah/Saviour = justified by faith and not by the Law.(GALATIANS.2:15-17)
...... But what about our lives on earth.? How are we to be guided or led in our remaining time left on earth.? Remember, Jesus Christ is also the Word of God or the Law.(JOHN.1:1 & 14 & 6:63)

Faith in God/Jesus(HEBREWS.11:6) also requires Christians to please or love God by keeping His Law/Word/commandments, either partially(= for Gentile Christians) or fully(= by Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews). Otherwise, worse things will happen to them - DEUT.28:15-, PROVERBS.1:26, JOHN.5:14, 1COR.11:30, HEB.10:26-31, 1JOHN.5:16-19)

 

[Neogaia777]

OT Law, apart from sin, also shows you the gap or separation and/or distance between you and God... I see that the law saddened you, but in a Godly way leading to repentance, so I do not regret it, it is holy...

We fulfiill the law, by not trying to fulfill the law, in a way, (for these are the only ones really fulfilling it), anyway...

The Old covenant standard was the holy standard of a perfect God, and was his own code, that none of us can live up to...

Except Christ...

God Bless!

 

[fhansen]

It's so important to recognize that being under grace, being "slaves of God" (Rom 6), is not meant to excuse us from the obligation to be righteous but rather to, finally, enable us to be righteous. The law is not our enemy but it simply cannot achieve what only grace can; being "under the law", meaning being compelled to obey under nothing more than our own power, apart from God, can produce no authentic righteousness or holiness, it cannot justify us. As Rom 6 tells us, the wages of sin is still death, but union with Christ sets us free from that sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Change of the Law:
(Hebrews 7:12)

​

The Mosaic Law (as a whole package deal) no longer exists. It became obsolete with Christ's death. It is obvious the Old Law does not still exist because various commands in the New Testament have changed what the Old Law says. For example: Paul says that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. Jesus says to us that we are no longer to render an eye for an eye but we are to turn the other cheek. When Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn letting us know that the laws on the priesthood and the animal sacrifices were no longer valid anymore. Jesus is our Heavenly High Priest and He is our Passover Lamb. Paul says we are no longer to judge according to Sabbaths and holy days. Peter was told to eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law).

However, that does not mean God does not have other laws (or commands) for us today. In fact, one must understand that God has "Eternal Moral Laws" for man since after his "fall" in the Garden. After the "fall": It was always wrong to murder, commit adultery, sleep with one's parents, get drunk, hate your brother, covet, lie, commit idolatry, etc. These Moral laws existed before the written Law and they still exist today. The written Law of Moses merely repeated them or emphasized them. But in addition to these moral laws, there were laws (within the Old Law) that were exclusive to the nation of Israel. These are ceremonial laws (like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, the dietary laws, animal sacrifices involving a priesthood) and civil laws (like on how to manage farming etc.) and judicial laws (like regulating legal matters). There were a total of 613 Commands in the Old Testament Law of Moses. Some of these Laws are God's Eternal Moral Laws; Others are exclusively for Israel and do not apply to us. Believers today are under the New Testament (i.e. the New Covenant) with new laws (Which would include God's Eternal Moral Laws). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed (along with the change of the priesthood).

Jesus did not come to abrogate God's Eternal Moral Laws (like do not murder, do not hate, do not commit adultery, do not steal, etc.). Jesus nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (like the Saturday Sabbath, the death penalty for disobeying God's laws, circumcision, the dietary laws, etc.) (See Colossians 2:14-17). Jesus says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17). So Jesus did not come to destroy all Law and it's consequences but He came to fulfill them into their true intended purpose with the commands given to us within the New Testament. These commands are based on love. Love God and love your neighbor.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe Paul was also trying to refute Works Alone Salvationism. Paul was condemning "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is a part of the Old Law and not the New Law). We are saved by God's grace + works (i.e. the works of the Lord done through us).

 

[fhansen]

The Change of the Law:
(Hebrews 7:12)

​

The Mosaic Law (as a whole package deal) no longer exists. It became obsolete with Christ's death. It is obvious the Old Law does not still exist because various commands in the New Testament have changed what the Old Law says. For example: Paul says that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. Jesus says to us that we are no longer to render an eye for an eye but we are to turn the other cheek. When Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn letting us know that the laws on the priesthood and the animal sacrifices were no longer valid anymore. Jesus is our Heavenly High Priest and He is our Passover Lamb. Paul says we are no longer to judge according to Sabbaths and holy days. Peter was told to eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law).

However, that does not mean God does not have other laws (or commands) for us today. In fact, one must understand that God has "Eternal Moral Laws" for man since after his "fall" in the Garden. After the "fall": It was always wrong to murder, commit adultery, sleep with one's parents, get drunk, hate your brother, covet, lie, commit idolatry, etc. These Moral laws existed before the written Law and they still exist today. The written Law of Moses merely repeated them or emphasized them. But in addition to these moral laws, there were laws (within the Old Law) that were exclusive to the nation of Israel. These are ceremonial laws (like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, the dietary laws, animal sacrifices involving a priesthood) and civil laws (like on how to manage farming etc.) and judicial laws (like regulating legal matters). There were a total of 613 Commands in the Old Testament Law of Moses. Some of these Laws are God's Eternal Moral Laws; Others are exclusively for Israel and do not apply to us. Believers today are under the New Testament (i.e. the New Covenant) with new laws (Which would include God's Eternal Moral Laws). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed (along with the change of the priesthood).

Jesus did not come to abrogate God's Eternal Moral Laws (like do not murder, do not hate, do not commit adultery, do not steal, etc.). Jesus nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (like the Saturday Sabbath, the death penalty for disobeying God's laws, circumcision, the dietary laws, etc.) (See Colossians 2:14-17). Jesus says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17). So Jesus did not come to destroy all Law and it's consequences but He came to fulfill them into their true intended purpose with the commands given to us within the New Testament. These commands are based on love. Love God and love your neighbor.

This is true. And this Eternal Law, which, on it's own, also cannot justify us, is nevertheless the Law which Rom 2 tells us we'll be judged on, and which Rom 13 tells us is fulfilled by love. This Law is not obsolete; it's holy and good and right as Paul explains, while the Old Covenant is obsolete, replaced by a new and better covenant that can accomplish what mere external law-abiding cannot.

 

[dqhall]

I John 4

11 Dear friends, if this is how God loved us, then we should love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in union with us, and his love is made perfect in us.

13 We are sure that we live in union with God and that he lives in union with us, because he has given us his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and tell others that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If we declare that Jesus is the Son of God, we live in union with God and God lives in union with us. 16 And we ourselves know and believe the love which God has for us.

God is love, and those who live in love live in union with God and God lives in union with them. 17 Love is made perfect in us in order that we may have courage on the Judgment Day; and we will have it because our life in this world is the same as Christ's. 18 There is no fear in love; perfect love drives out all fear. So then, love has not been made perfect in anyone who is afraid, because fear has to do with punishment.

19 We love because God first loved us. 20 If we say we love God, but hate others, we are liars. For we cannot love God, whom we have not seen, if we do not love others, whom we have seen. 21 The command that Christ has given us is this: whoever loves God must love others also.

See I Cor 13

Gal 5

13 As for you, my friends, you were called to be free. But do not let this freedom become an excuse for letting your physical desires control you. Instead, let love make you serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is summed up in one commandment: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” 15 But if you act like wild animals, hurting and harming each other, then watch out, or you will completely destroy one another.

The Spirit and Human Nature

16 What I say is this: let the Spirit direct your lives, and you will not satisfy the desires of the human nature. 17 For what our human nature wants is opposed to what the Spirit wants, and what the Spirit wants is opposed to what our human nature wants. These two are enemies, and this means that you cannot do what you want to do. 18 If the Spirit leads you, then you are not subject to the Law.

19 What human nature does is quite plain. It shows itself in immoral, filthy, and indecent actions; 20 in worship of idols and witchcraft. People become enemies and they fight; they become jealous, angry, and ambitious. They separate into parties and groups; 21 they are envious, get drunk, have orgies, and do other things like these. I warn you now as I have before: those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God.

22 But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 humility, and self-control. There is no law against such things as these. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have put to death their human nature with all its passions and desires. 25 The Spirit has given us life; he must also control our lives. 26 We must not be proud or irritate one another or be jealous of one another.

Short answer, serve each other in Love = No Law.

When I was in Israel some Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods put temporary barricades across their local streets to prevent driving on the Sabbath as they think driving is work and work is not allowed on the seventh day. Elevators in some hotels stop on every floor during Sabbath/Shabaht so people do not have to push a button on the Sabbath. They determined pushing a button is work. In Israel I had to be careful about what I did on the Sabbath as to not go out of my way to anger them. If my car breaks down on Sabbath in Israel, I felt I should not bother calling for a tow truck. The hospitals and Ben Gurion Airport are open on the Sabbath. In times of war they allow the military to work on the Sabbath.

As the law of Moses tells me not to have sex with a virgin unless I am married to her, I should obey. The invention of reliable birth control has changed dating habits regardless of the law. Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and some Protestants do not allow birth control. Some sects allowing birth control allow married couples to use it and forbid its use by unmarried partners. Some allowed a "morning after pill" in cases of rape. This pill is not 100% effective. Fornication is not advised. Men have been successfully sued for child support after having premarital sex and not marrying their pregnant partner. DNA testing is reliable proof of paternity.

 

[Devin P]

Well, we are to be led by the spirit, but God's law is spiritual.

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Then Paul says in Romans 8:5-7
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Paul says the law is spiritual, then says that those that are of the spirit mind things of the spirit - the law. But that those after the flesh are at enmity against God because they are not subject to God's law, nor can they be because they're of the flesh and not of the spirit.

That, and there's so many prophecies that talk about the time after Jesus comes back and He's ruling as king on earth, and a lot of them have us keeping the law again.

Like Zechariah 14 -

Zechariah 14 talks about what will happen after the day of the Lord, e.g., the return of Jesus.

Zechariah 14:16-19
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

And it says that whoever of the nations fails to keep the holy day of Sukkoth, their land receives no rain. Then if the same nations fail to keep it the following year they'll be destroyed.. BUT, the important point, is the original hebraic word there for nations, is goy and goyim, which simply means gentile and gentiles. So this can't be referring to the past, but the future. And if God's law is truly done away with, why will it be back for even the gentiles? I don't think the law is done away with, I just think there's a lot of misunderstandings today.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is true. And this Eternal Law, which, on it's own, also cannot justify us, is nevertheless the Law which Rom 2 tells us we'll be judged on, and which Rom 13 tells us is fulfilled by love. This Law is not obsolete; it's holy and good and right as Paul explains, while the Old Covenant is obsolete, replaced by a new and better covenant that can accomplish what mere external law-abiding cannot.

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is speaking as a Pharisee in trying to obey the Old Law before he became a Christian. The Old Law is lawful only if it used lawfully (1 Timothy 1:8). Meaning, only God’s Eternal Moral Laws can be obeyed from the Old Covenant (like “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” etc.) as a part of having life or salvation. Ceremonial, judicial, and civil laws were for Israel and not for the church within the New Covenant. So things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, farming laws, etc. do not apply to believers in the One true God anymore. We are under a New Covenant with New Commands.

Obedience to God’s commands in the New Testament including having faith in Jesus Christ and abiding in Him (allowing Him to do the good work through us) is what saves.

Commands (Direct orders) from God include having faith in Christ (God) and in believing the gospel.

Have faith in God (God the Father) (Mark 11:22).
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) (1 John 3:23).
Believe the gospel (Mark 1:15).

So yes, obedience to God’s Commands does save. For 1 John 3:23 says that to believe on Jesus is a commandment. All sin is unbelief (John 16:8-9), and sin is the breaking of the commandment or law (1 John 3:4). So faith and or trust in God is a part of obeying God's commands; And one obviously needs to have faith in Christ so as to be saved. In other words, if one is not obeying Jesus, they really do not trust or have faith in Him. James makes it clear that faith without works is a dead kind of faith (James 2:17) and that we are indeed justified by works (as a part of the faith) and not by faith (a belief) alone (James 2:24). Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. So obedience to God is necessary as a part of trusting in Jesus as one's Savior and salvation.

Paul was condemning the false Pharisee religion that distorted God’s commands which left out faith, mercy, and grace. How do we know?

Jesus says in Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy. In fact, the very reason Christ gave Himself for us was the purpose of making us holy, without blemish, and zealous of good works (See Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14).

There is no teaching in Scripture that says that we can break God's moral laws and still be saved. Many today regulate sin to being no more dangerous than a fluffy kitten. But little do they realize that serious sin can bring spiritual death even for the believer (See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 25:31-46, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15, etc.). Scripture is full of warnings to the believer that they cannot think or live immorally in any way. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). The believer who thought they were good with Christ were in for a big surprise when He told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity (sin) (See Matthew 7).

 

[fhansen]

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is speaking as a Pharisee in trying to obey the Old Law before he became a Christian. The Old Law is lawful only if it used lawfully (1 Timothy 1:8). Meaning, only God’s Eternal Moral Laws can be obeyed from the Old Covenant (like “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” etc.) as a part of having life or salvation. Ceremonial, judicial, and civil laws were for Israel and not for the church within the New Covenant.

Yes, and those are the very eternal laws, from the ten commandments, referenced in Rom 13:8-10

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, and those are the very eternal laws, from the ten commandments, referenced in Rom 13:8-10

Hmmm... not exactly. The Saturday Sabbath is not exclusively a Moral Law. A Moral Law is anything that you know to be good and right to do without a specific command telling you to do so. Loving one's neighbor fulfills the Moral Law because if one loves their neighbor they will not kill them, steal from them, and or covet anything from them (Romans 13:8-9). Keeping the Saturday Sabbath vs. resting on another day does not really effect your neighbor. The Saturday Sabbath is more like a ceremonial law at it's core. Yes, all of God's commands have a moral element to them, but at their core, or heart they have a major purpose to them. The Saturday Sabbath keeping in the OT was to show us that our rest is in Christ Jesus. The Saturday Sabbath command is no longer in effect within the New Covenant.

 

[fhansen]

Hmmm... not exactly. The Saturday Sabbath is not exclusively a Moral Law. A Moral Law is anything that you know to be good and right to do without a specific command telling you to do so. Loving one's neighbor fulfills the Moral Law because if one loves their neighbor they will not kill them, steal from them, and or covet anything from them (Romans 13:8-9). Keeping the Saturday Sabbath vs. resting on another day does not really effect your neighbor. The Saturday Sabbath is more like a ceremonial law at it's core. Yes, all of God's commands have a moral element to them, but at their core, or heart they have a major purpose to them. The Saturday Sabbath keeping in the OT was to show us that our rest is in Christ Jesus.

I'd disagree-somewhat. First of all I mentioned that Paul referenced the Ten Commandments in Rom 13, not all of them-I didn't mention the Sabbath. But I'd still maintain that the decalogue is a publicly revealed declaration of certain basic moral truths of God's Eternal Law. The Sabbath must be observed in one way or the other, love would demand a day of rest and worship of God even if the Church saw fit to observe it on a different day.