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Featured Is a Christian really subject to the OT Law?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Daniel Marsh, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    I John 4

    11 Dear friends, if this is how God loved us, then we should love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in union with us, and his love is made perfect in us.

    13 We are sure that we live in union with God and that he lives in union with us, because he has given us his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and tell others that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If we declare that Jesus is the Son of God, we live in union with God and God lives in union with us. 16 And we ourselves know and believe the love which God has for us.

    God is love, and those who live in love live in union with God and God lives in union with them. 17 Love is made perfect in us in order that we may have courage on the Judgment Day; and we will have it because our life in this world is the same as Christ's. 18 There is no fear in love; perfect love drives out all fear. So then, love has not been made perfect in anyone who is afraid, because fear has to do with punishment.

    19 We love because God first loved us. 20 If we say we love God, but hate others, we are liars. For we cannot love God, whom we have not seen, if we do not love others, whom we have seen. 21 The command that Christ has given us is this: whoever loves God must love others also.

    See I Cor 13

    Gal 5

    13 As for you, my friends, you were called to be free. But do not let this freedom become an excuse for letting your physical desires control you. Instead, let love make you serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is summed up in one commandment: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” 15 But if you act like wild animals, hurting and harming each other, then watch out, or you will completely destroy one another.

    The Spirit and Human Nature

    16 What I say is this: let the Spirit direct your lives, and you will not satisfy the desires of the human nature. 17 For what our human nature wants is opposed to what the Spirit wants, and what the Spirit wants is opposed to what our human nature wants. These two are enemies, and this means that you cannot do what you want to do. 18 If the Spirit leads you, then you are not subject to the Law.

    19 What human nature does is quite plain. It shows itself in immoral, filthy, and indecent actions; 20 in worship of idols and witchcraft. People become enemies and they fight; they become jealous, angry, and ambitious. They separate into parties and groups; 21 they are envious, get drunk, have orgies, and do other things like these. I warn you now as I have before: those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God.

    22 But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 humility, and self-control. There is no law against such things as these. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have put to death their human nature with all its passions and desires. 25 The Spirit has given us life; he must also control our lives. 26 We must not be proud or irritate one another or be jealous of one another.

    Short answer, serve each other in Love = No Law.
     
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  2. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    1 Corinthians 9:20
    While working with the Jews, I live like a Jew in order to win them; and even though I myself am not subject to the Law of Moses, I live as though I were when working with those who are, in order to win them.

    Romans 8:4
    God did this so that the righteous demands of the Law might be fully satisfied in us who live according to the Spirit, and not according to human nature.

    Romans 8:1
    There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
     
  3. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    Gal 5:18
    18 If the Spirit leads you, then you are not subject to the Law.
     
  4. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    Hey Brother ..What version of the Bible are you quoting from ? It seems like a good translation. Thank you . Grace and Peace in Christ Jesus our Lord .
     
  5. drjean

    drjean Senior Veteran Supporter

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  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    It appears to be the Good News Translation, NeedyFollower.
     
  7. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    It is TEV aka Good News Bible

    Galatians 5:18

    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    New Living Translation
    But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.

    English Standard Version
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    Berean Study Bible
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    Berean Literal Bible
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    New American Standard Bible
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    King James Bible
    But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Christian Standard Bible
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    **** Good News Translation aka TEV
    If the Spirit leads you, then you are not subject to the law.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    International Standard Version
    But if you are being led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    NET Bible
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    New Heart English Bible
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    But if you are led by The Spirit, you are not under The Written law.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    If your spiritual nature is your guide, you are not subject to Moses' laws.

    New American Standard 1977
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    But if ye are led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    King James 2000 Bible
    But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    American King James Version
    But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    American Standard Version
    But if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law.

    Darby Bible Translation
    but if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under law.

    English Revised Version
    But if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    But if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Weymouth New Testament
    But if the Spirit is leading you, you are not subject to law.

    World English Bible
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    Young's Literal Translation
    and if by the Spirit ye are led, ye are not under law.
     
  8. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much as I am not familiar with that version and quite like the translation . I use the KJV in addition to others but not as fond as some . But I get that we are not under the law regardless of the translation. As a matter of fact , we do not even need a constitution , nor the ten commandments for love , when written on our hearts , will compel us to seek the welfare of others .. Having been convicted of treason against God by the life I have lead and having the sentence pronounced of " You are Forgiven " for my Son's sake , quite changes one attitude about their own enemies . By grace are you saved through faith which worketh by love ! Who is like our God ???
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The TEV was a very popular modern language edition a generation ago, but it seems to have been eclipsed by a raft of other modern language translations since then. You can probably pick a copy up, however, in a thrift store. It will be in paperback and probably will sport the term Good News although it's officially the Today's English Version (TEV).

    I rather like it as a companion to more traditional versions like the KJV or RSV for two reasons--it is very straightforward in simple language...but, at the same time, it does not do what so many other modern language translations do, which is to use 'politically correct' and very awkward wording. The TEV just says what it does in ordinary language.
     
  10. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior When are we gonna start bustin' Decepti-chops?

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    Secular society however, is under law, no? And the carnal Christian is under what...?
     
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Secular society is not under the law that's being referred to in that verse, however, which is the Mosaic Law.​
     
  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Law applies only when preaching the gospel to secular folk. The Law shows that folk have fallen short of the glory of God and that they are not righteous before him. The Law is the "tutor" to draw people to Christ. It is there to show sinners their sin. If we preach the gospel without applying Law first, we make the mistake of leading folk into easy believerism without them being convicted of their sinfulness first. But once a person has turned to Christ and receives the Holy Spirit, then the Law is fulfilled and the Holy Spirit leads the person on the sanctification path and does what the Law could not do: change the person's heart and attitude and give them the desire to live holy lives before God.

    There is no mention in the New Testament of a "carnal Christian" as such, although Paul did say that some were "carnal", them being able only able to accept the milk of the Word, that is, the first principles of the faith. The writer to the Hebrews says that we should move forward from the foundations. But the problem with many of our churches and believers, they have not even mastered the foundations that Hebrews says that we should progress from! So, by that definition, 90% of church members could be described by Paul as "carnal" because they still concentrate on the basics.
     
  13. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior When are we gonna start bustin' Decepti-chops?

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    Paul can be confusing at times, to the modern reader at least, the mosaic law, the law of the Spirit, the law of sin and death, thanks for bringing that point out, it's helpful. :oldthumbsup:
     
  14. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior When are we gonna start bustin' Decepti-chops?

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    Thanks for the reply Oscarr, enjoy reading your posts brother. I suppose by "carnal" I did not have Paul's definition of "milk of the Word" in mind, rather I had in mind the times when we do not walk in the Spirit, the times we walk in the flesh and its desires, like those unruly Corinthians. ^_^
     
  15. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The interesting thing about the Corinthians is that they were in a better place with God than the majority of our modern churches! It is interesting that when Jesus, in Revelation, was evaluating the seven churches, He did not mention the Corinthian church. Yet the Ephesian church which we would have thought was better than the Corinthian one, had real problems by the latter half of the First Century, yet Jesus didn't even mention anything negative about the Corinthian church. I wonder why? Could it be that the Corinthian church had dealt with its issues and was an on-fire church still going on for God? Paul seems to confirm that in his second letter to them.

    The battle of the flesh warring against the Spirit in us is common to us all, whether we like to admit it or not. To accuse another Christian of being "carnal" is like two filthy, lice infested beggars sitting in a muddy ditch, and one says to the other, "You stink!"
     
  16. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior When are we gonna start bustin' Decepti-chops?

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    I inserted the laughing emoji and used the word "unruly" under the notion that we are no better, no more Holy, than they. As for Revelation and the seven Churches, and the Corinth Church, maybe we should just take it as it is without speculation one way or the other? It's not like Christ rejects His own bride, the bride He chose, though He corrects her, and warns her, for His glory and namesake.

    There is no need to accuse anyone, I am well aware of what I am and the wars that rage inside me, but thanks be to God for rescuing me from me, so that I am no longer a slave to sin, no condemnation, rather repentance and faith.
     
  17. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    IMO, we are not obligated to the written torah. But we ARE obligated to obey the meaning and intent of the law.
    So what is the meaning and intent of the law? Simple. Jesus spells it out:
    And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And ha second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 jOn these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

     
  18. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    I believe the Lord was talking to the Jews in the Old Testament, and he gave them a lot of rules to follow regarding the way they carried out worship, rules that don't apply to Christians. Still, you can clearly see that a lot of what he said to the Jews applies to everyone in the world, such as the Ten Commandments.
     
  19. Genesis Fishing

    Genesis Fishing New Member

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    Awesome man! That reply reminds of Alastair Begg in his witnessing. He immediately defines the law then gets to it!
     
  20. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much for your informational and edifying reply. I also use many versions though I do not care for NIV ...I think maybe there is a difference in translation and interpretation . Close but not exact . Interpretation goes maybe a hair's breadth beyond translation and may take the " meat " out . Thanks you again . I look forward to seeing you " On that Day ! " Grace and peace in Jesus Christ .
     
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