is a belief in Hell necessary?

[Philip]

And no, non-believers (those who choose not to follow God) cannot be saved...We are not required to believe everything the church (or even Jesus) teaches in order to be granted eternal life. We are saved by the shed blood of our Lord when we choose to follow God.

What, then, does one need to believe?

 

[SH89]

What, then, does one need to believe?

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.-john 8:24

 

[linssue55]

What, then, does one need to believe?

Very simple...."Believe on the Lord jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". The Lord does all the work....we recieve the GIFT.

 

[revrobor]

What, then, does one need to believe?

For salvation one needs not believe anything because we are not saved by what we believe (giving mental assent to a subject) but by the shed blood of Jesus. In the Bible the word "believe" in reference to Jesus or God frequently means "to cling to" or "to follow" as in John 3:16. Many Christians have wrongly assumed that they are saved because they believe Jesus died for their sins when, in fact, they are saved by His sacrificial act and NOT their believing it happened. There are those who will be saved who have never heard the name of Jesus because they chose to follow ("believe", "cling to") God who was revealed to them by His creation (see Romans 1:19-21). Their salvation is possible only because of Jesus sacrifice ("No one comes to the Father except by me").

 

[Daedalus]

Mind if I point you to some light reading first? I'll be back in the AM.

The Orthodox teaching is that Heaven and Hell are the same "place" , standing in front of God.

The Judgment is individual perception, determined by one's relationship to God.

This perception will determine whether or not one experiences it as paradise (Heaven) or agony (Hell) eternally.

Forgive me....

Not erally. I don't know what kind of Orthodox Chridian you are, or what you have been taught, but, as far as I know orthodox customs, and readings, hell is quite the lake of fire the bible speaks about.

We beleive that it is a place of eternal PUNISHMENT (see, the real Orthodox christian is not afraid to say God punishes in eighter this life or the afterlife).
That is what people who have been taken to hell (there are orthodox books which tell the story ) say the hell is; that is what people who die (some have been dead for 3 days) and later return to life ,say hell is.

 

[Daedalus]

There is a good case to why this story has to be a parable:

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Lazarus-byHuie.htm

And yes I have read "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" , simply repulsive.

If there is no hell, why did the demons in Luke 8:31 asked Jesus not to make them return into the deep ?
The demons have already been cast away from God, so it wasn't that that hurt them.... what whas it then..... ???
Perhaps an everlasting lake of fire tormenting them forever ?
Perhaps that's why they would rather enter the pigs?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Not erally. I don't know what kind of Orthodox Chridian you are, or what you have been taught, but, as far as I know orthodox customs, and readings, hell is quite the lake of fire the bible speaks about.

We beleive that it is a place of eternal PUNISHMENT (see, the real Orthodox christian is not afraid to say God punishes in eighter this life or the afterlife).
That is what people who have been taken to hell (there are orthodox books which tell the story ) say the hell is; that is what people who die (some have been dead for 3 days) and later return to life ,say hell is.

That's interesting. How did you misunderstand what I was saying?

I was refuting that "Hell is really separation from God."

I'm not saying that it's not an eternal punishment, I'm saying that it's not in the absense of God, rather before God, and that the fire is God himself.

BTW ~ I am an Antiochian.

Forgive me....

 

[Prodigy]

dl

 

[holo]

I'll stick to the theology of the thief on the cross. I dare not expand very much on that.

 

[linssue55]

For salvation one needs not believe anything because we are not saved by what we believe (giving mental assent to a subject) but by the shed blood of Jesus. In the Bible the word "believe" in reference to Jesus or God frequently means "to cling to" or "to follow" as in John 3:16. Many Christians have wrongly assumed that they are saved because they believe Jesus died for their sins when, in fact, they are saved by His sacrificial act and NOT their believing it happened. There are those who will be saved who have never heard the name of Jesus because they chose to follow ("believe", "cling to") God who was revealed to them by His creation (see Romans 1:19-21). Their salvation is possible only because of Jesus sacrifice ("No one comes to the Father except by me").

Oh my this is scary. Then I think you had better tell God that the word "Believe" is the wrong definition, that He should go by your definition. My, my, my real SCARY .

 

[Philip]

Very simple...."Believe on the Lord jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". The Lord does all the work....we recieve the GIFT.

And what does this mean? Believe that Jesus was a good teacher? Believe that He is the Son of God? Believe that He is God the Son? It is easy to say that all one has to do is 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ", but that doesn't answer the question. Believe what? And what is belief?

[Concerning revrobor's response]Oh my this is scary. Then I think you had better tell God that the word "Believe" is the wrong definition, that He should go by your definition. My, my, my real SCARY .

You may not like revrobor's answer, but his definition of 'believe' is reflective of the Greek word used in the Gospels. What is your definition of 'believe'?

For salvation one needs not believe anything because we are not saved by what we believe (giving mental assent to a subject) but by the shed blood of Jesus. In the Bible the word "believe" in reference to Jesus or God frequently means "to cling to" or "to follow" as in John 3:16. Many Christians have wrongly assumed that they are saved because they believe Jesus died for their sins when, in fact, they are saved by His sacrificial act and NOT their believing it happened. There are those who will be saved who have never heard the name of Jesus because they chose to follow ("believe", "cling to") God who was revealed to them by His creation (see Romans 1:19-21). Their salvation is possible only because of Jesus sacrifice ("No one comes to the Father except by me").

Not exactly sure what you are saying, but it seems rather close to believe = be good.

 

[thewaxtadpole]

Oh my this is scary. Then I think you had better tell God that the word "Believe" is the wrong definition, that He should go by your definition. My, my, my real SCARY .

Eh, what's scary about this? revrobor's claim is that the word that's translated as 'believe' in the scriptures we read is actually closer to 'follow' in the way that it is used elsewhere. I can't verify that since I don't know any Biblical Greek or Aramaic, but I similarly have no basis for disbelieving it either -- so until somebody proves otherwise I'm willing to accept it as fact.

But this is just semantics, and revrobor's best point in the context of the OP seems to be ignored:

For salvation one needs not believe anything because we are not saved by what we believe (giving mental assent to a subject) but by the shed blood of Jesus.

This is truth, as much as I don't like it sometimes -- I'd like it if being virtuous earned us some special place in God's eyes, but it simply doesn't. I'd like to think that God's monitoring the number of correct theological beliefs I hold and when I reach critical mass it's extra blessings galore, but he isn't.

Let's say we have a seeker who is ready to commit their life to Jesus, but cannot reconcile the idea of a loving God with eternal torment. Do you really think that God would prefer a person to forego having a relationship with Him because they couldn't wrap their mind around the necessity of Hell?

 

[God_of_Mercy]

If there is no hell, why did the demons in Luke 8:31 asked Jesus not to make them return into the deep ?
The demons have already been cast away from God, so it wasn't that that hurt them.... what whas it then..... ???
Perhaps an everlasting lake of fire tormenting them forever ?
Perhaps that's why they would rather enter the pigs?

The Abyss seems to be a holding place for evil spirits and the like.

 

[Borealis]

The Abyss seems to be a holding place for evil spirits and the like.

How is it a 'holding place?' Where does it say in the Bible that those in Gehenna/Hell/the Abyss will EVER get out?

 

[God_of_Mercy]

How is it a 'holding place?' Where does it say in the Bible that those in Gehenna/Hell/the Abyss will EVER get out?

I think we can all agree that Hell/Hades or whatever ends up in the lake of fire. Here is a good analysis of the lake of fire, I apolgise for just posting a site again but there is to much information to make a simple response.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html#The Lake Of Fire

 

[yashua]

The Sheep and the Goats

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

This is a cut and paste from J.W. Hanson from Aion\Aionios
check the context of the passage that you quote.



of an error hoary with antiquity, and not yet wholly abandoned. Matt. xxv:46, is the great proof-text of the doctrine of endless punishment: "These shall go away into everlasting punishment, and the righteous into life eternal." We shall endeavor to establish the following points against the erroneous view of this Scripture. 1. The punishment is not for unbelief, but for not benefitting the needy. 2. The general antecedent usage of the word denoting duration here, in the Classics and in the Old Testament, proves that the duration is limited. 3. One object of punishment being to improve the punished, the punishment heremust be limited; 4. The events here described took place in this world, and must therefore be of limited duration. 5. The Greek word kolasin, rendered punishment, should be rendered chastisement, as reformation is implied in its meaning.

1. THE AIONIAN PUNISHMENT IS FOR EVIL WORKS.

Practical benevolence is the virtue whose reward is here announced, and unkindness is the vice whose punishment is here threatened, and not faith and unbelief, on which heaven and hell are popularly predicated. Matt. xxv:34-45. "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was a hungered, and ye game me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee a hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you,Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was a hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee a hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." If cruelty to the poor --neglect of them even,--constitutes rejection of Christ --as is plainly taught here --and all who are guilty are to suffer endless torment "who then can be saved?" the single consideration that works, and not faith are here made the test of discipleship, cuts away the foundation of the popular view of this text.

 

[yashua]

Matt 25

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

You have taken the whole passage "out" of context. If You will read again you will find that it has to do with "Whatever they did not do (love) for one of the least (sinners) of these you did not do for me. Love your enemies. These are good works which God ordained that we should walk in.

 

[Raydar]

You have taken the whole passage "out" of context. If You will read again you will find that it has to do with "Whatever they did not do (love) for one of the least (sinners) of these you did not do for me. Love your enemies. These are good works which God ordained that we should walk in.

Joykins asked if a belif in hell was necessary. From the passage I quoted in Matt 25 (which is not out of context because I quoted the whole passage and not 1 or 2 verses) it is very clear that Jesus Christ Himself said there is ETERNAL punishment and there is eternal life. I think if you asked 500 or 5,000,000 people what eternal punishment and eternal life was, I think the vast majority would say hell and heaven. You need not have a Masters in Thoelogy to figure out what He is saying in that passage. If you asked those same people what eternal meant I think all of them would say, time without end, timeless, forever and ever etc.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Alright everybody, lets sing!

Jesus will judge me this I know
For the Bible tells me so
If I live a life of sin
Hell awaits me in the end

Yes Jesus will judge me
Yes Jesus will judge me
Yes Jesus will judge me
For the Bible tells me so


Sing this as often as it takes for it to sink in!

 

[deu58]

Hi all

I believe that heaven and hell are biblical doctrines, But they are not necessary for salvation, There is alot of confusion concerning many biblcal doctrines,

Salvation depends on how you answer this one question. Who do you say that I am??

The entire bible is focused on giving us the necessary information to answer that question,

Who do you say that Jesus is?? Lord Liar Thief Just a another good man?? It is your answer to this question that effects your salvation,

Ro 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

As can be seen there have been doctrinal questions since the begininning, But they were all united on one thing, That Jesus Christ is lord and saviour and the Messiah and arose again from the dead on the third day,

That is what makes a believer,

yours in Christ
deu 58