Irrefutable evidence of 4th Commandment support by pro-Sunday sources

BobRyan · Oct 24, 2014

Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Of course even the majority of pro-sunday scholarhip mentioned in the OP would argue for accepting this text of scripture.

JohnRabbit · Oct 24, 2014

listed said:
Yes I do. Unfortunately you give it meaning it does not present. You have divorced words out of context and in disagreement with the rest of Scripture.

out of context, you say?

ok, let's go "Big Bird" level.

man says "what must i do to have eternal life?"

Jesus answers and says "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments".

remember, the question the man asks is in conjunction with salvation.

please show me how i'm out of context.

YosemiteSam · Oct 24, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
out of context, you say?

ok, let's do a simple analysis.

man says "what must i do to have eternal life?"

Jesus answers and says "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments".

remember, the question the man asks in conjunction with salvation.

please show me how i'm out of context.

Cant wait to hear this one.... I need a good laugh...

Surely on big bird level he can see this....

BobRyan · Oct 24, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
out of context, you say?

ok, let's go "Big Bird" level.

man says "what must i do to have eternal life?"

Jesus answers and says "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments".

remember, the question the man asks is in conjunction with salvation.

please show me how i'm out of context.

Sounds like Romans 2:13 to me...

listed · Oct 24, 2014

BobRyan said:
Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Of course even the majority of pro-sunday scholarhip mentioned in the OP would argue for accepting this text of scripture.

I fully accept the text.

listed · Oct 24, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
out of context, you say?

ok, let's go "Big Bird" level.

man says "what must i do to have eternal life?"

Jesus answers and says "if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments".

remember, the question the man asks is in conjunction with salvation.

I choose to ignore you insult.

Both the Psalms and Paul disagree with you.

You promote the idea here that 1 can earn their salvation by keeping the law. You make keeping the law a requirement of salvation. This throws out the idea of grace and salvation being a free gift. Some appear to detest a free unearned gift. Doing so rejects salvation.

You promote being justified by the law and Gal 5 says no. The Psalms say no as well.[/quote]

please show me how i'm out of context. [/QUOTE]

I just did. I suppose you want me to quote a Scripture passage. I ask why. You will just throw it out.

You want more? Read John 10. To take your idea makes Jesus a liar.

listed · Oct 24, 2014

YosemiteSam said:
Cant wait to hear this one.... I need a good laugh...

Surely on big bird level he can see this....

Wish you many happy hours of laughter.

mercy1061 · Oct 24, 2014

listed said:
Wish you many happy hours of laughter.

What is your favorite color?

mercy1061 · Oct 24, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
So people that die by the Law (stoned to death) are dead the same by Jesus words as those who do not die by the Law?

What did G-d say in the beginning? Adam would die the day he ate from the forbidden tree; was Adam stoned to death? Did Adam die?

JohnRabbit · Oct 25, 2014

listed said:
I choose to ignore you insult.

was not an insult! the verse i quoted is plain and you obviously reject the words of the Christ.

that's on you and not me.

Both the Psalms and Paul disagree with you.

how does this statement by you help me when we clearly see things differently? (where are your verses?)

You promote the idea here that 1 can earn their salvation by keeping the law.

i've been in this forum for five years and you can't find one post where i've said that one can EARN salvation by keeping the law.

i DARE you to find one.

You make keeping the law a requirement of salvation.

when the man asked what must he do to have eternal life, who told him to keep the commandments, me or Jesus?

This throws out the idea of grace and salvation being a free gift. Some appear to detest a free unearned gift. Doing so rejects salvation.

for people that do promote earning salvation i agree with you on this one.

You promote being justified by the law and Gal 5 says no. The Psalms say no as well.

just to prove that you don't know what gal 5 is saying, i dare you to explain the dichotomy between these verses.

i'll say now that you won't do it and it's because you can't.

Romans 2:13(NKJV)
13(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Galatians 5:4(NKJV)
4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I just did. I suppose you want me to quote a Scripture passage. I ask why. You will just throw it out.

you've done nothing more than display the fact that you reject the words of the Christ which He spoke in matt 19:17 as you have not explained why Christ told the man to keep the commandments and you say we don't.

You want more? Read John 10. To take your idea makes Jesus a liar.

again, how does this help me when you and i read john 10 differently.

yeah, it would help if you added scripture so that i could see where you are coming from.

i know you disagree with me, but i do at least give scripture so that you can see where i'm coming from.

listed · Oct 25, 2014

BobRyan said:
Sounds like Romans 2:13 to me...

The problem is locating the doers of the law. My Bible tells me there are none.

listed · Oct 25, 2014

mercy1061 said:
What is your favorite color?

Blue. Why do you ask?

listed · Oct 25, 2014

mercy1061 said:
What did G-d say in the beginning? Adam would die the day he ate from the forbidden tree; was Adam stoned to death? Did Adam die?

No Adam did not physically die immediately. Do you take this as God going back on His word? Adam did immediately die spiritually.

listed · Oct 25, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
was not an insult! the verse i quoted is plain and you obviously reject the words of the Christ.

Was not referring to your verse.

that's on you and not me.

how does this statement by you help me when we clearly see things differently? (where are your verses?)

JR they have been quoted all over this area of the forum and to you as well. You choose to ignore them. Why keep posting them when you will only trample them? I love pearls (Scripture passages).

i've been in this forum for five years and you can't find one post where i've said that one can EARN salvation by keeping the law.

How do you secure eternal life? Remember you responded with Mat 19:17. What is the question being asked. Jesus gave a fool his desired answer. The Scripture says the only way 1 can have eternal life to accept the free gift you obviously refuse to accept demanding 1 keep the law. Do you know you can not obligate God? If you want reward for your works (law keeping) you will get it. It is called death (separation from God). Righteousness can not be obtained by the law.

i DARE you to find one.

Like I said you only ignore them and I like the pearls.

when the man asked what must he do to have eternal life, who told him to keep the commandments, me or Jesus?

You truly do not understand the man was guilty of violating the law. You can name no 1 who has kept the law except Jesus in all of recorded history. There is therefore no salvation according to your position. I will not fall into your despair. I was there for more years than I care to think about.

for people that do promote earning salvation i agree with you on this one.

That is exactly what you do and mean when you quote Mat 19:17.

just to prove that you don't know what gal 5 is saying, i dare you to explain the dichotomy between these verses.

They are very plain and self explanatory. To provide commentary on them would be called a flame and get reported. I encourage you to read Gal 5 and believe what it says.

i'll say now that you won't do it and it's because you can't.

No as explained above and with very good solid reason also stated.

Romans 2:13(NKJV)
13(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

I though you said 1 can not earn salvation (eternal life), but here you go saying that can be done knowing in your heart there are no doers of the law. So there is no justification and the law has done its job perfectly.

Galatians 5:4(NKJV)
4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

True and you do not accept it denying you justify yourself by the amended law you observe. Remember not a jot nor tittle shall pass from the law according to you. God can not change the covenant. There is no hope in your message.

you've done nothing more than display the fact that you reject the words of the Christ which He spoke in matt 19:17 as you have not explained why Christ told the man to keep the commandments and you say we don't.

No, but I also accept the words of Jesus found in John 3, 5 and 10. I have read the forum and it has been proven over and over you do not keep the law or even the 10 Cs you claim against Moses are not the law.

again, how does this help me when you and i read john 10 differently.

Certainly, it interferes with your position.

yeah, it would help if you added scripture so that i could see where you are coming from.

Why, I am a student of some others who have the same position I accept and you reject. They have done what you ask over and over very patiently.

i know you disagree with me, but i do at least give scripture so that you can see where i'm coming from.

Yes I know your false doctrine as it has been posted over and over here in the forum by you and others. I know it even with out your out of context Scripture passages.

JohnRabbit · Oct 25, 2014

listed said:
Was not referring to your verse.JR they have been quoted all over this area of the forum and to you as well. You choose to ignore them. Why keep posting them when you will only trample them? I love pearls (Scripture passages).How do you secure eternal life? Remember you responded with Mat 19:17. What is the question being asked. Jesus gave a fool his desired answer. The Scripture says the only way 1 can have eternal life to accept the free gift you obviously refuse to accept demanding 1 keep the law. Do you know you can not obligate God? If you want reward for your works (law keeping) you will get it. It is called death (separation from God). Righteousness can not be obtained by the law.Like I said you only ignore them and I like the pearls.You truly do not understand the man was guilty of violating the law. You can name no 1 who has kept the law except Jesus in all of recorded history. There is therefore no salvation according to your position. I will not fall into your despair. I was there for more years than I care to think about.That is exactly what you do and mean when you quote Mat 19:17.They are very plain and self explanatory. To provide commentary on them would be called a flame and get reported. I encourage you to read Gal 5 and believe what it says.No as explained above and with very good solid reason also stated.I though you said 1 can not earn salvation (eternal life), but here you go saying that can be done knowing in your heart there are no doers of the law. So there is no justification and the law has done its job perfectly.True and you do not accept it denying you justify yourself by the amended law you observe. Remember not a jot nor tittle shall pass from the law according to you. God can not change the covenant. There is no hope in your message. No, but I also accept the words of Jesus found in John 3, 5 and 10. I have read the forum and it has been proven over and over you do not keep the law or even the 10 Cs you claim against Moses are not the law. Certainly, it interferes with your position.Why, I am a student of some others who have the same position I accept and you reject. They have done what you ask over and over very patiently.Yes I know your false doctrine as it has been posted over and over here in the forum by you and others. I know it even with out your out of context Scripture passages.

thank you for proving my point!

JohnRabbit · Oct 25, 2014

listed said:
Blue. Why do you ask?

see?

you just don't get it!

he asked you that just to see if you would answer a question!

listed · Oct 25, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
see?

you just don't get it!

he asked you that just to see if you would answer a question!

Forgive me for indulging your foolishness.

JohnRabbit · Oct 25, 2014

listed said:
Blue. Why do you ask?

so, since you're answering. (finally! )

maybe you will answer this.

when did the sabbath day become holy, (see ex 16:23)?

another one (i can't help myself! )

has the sabbath day ceased to being holy, if so when?

listed · Oct 25, 2014

Try again. Double post. It said no service. I did not check to see if it actually posted.

listed · Oct 25, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
so, since you're answering. (finally! )

maybe you will answer this.

when did the sabbath day become holy, (see ex 16:23)?

another one (i can't help myself! )

has the sabbath day ceased to being holy, if so when?

For who? And what Sabbath?

The Sabbath was never declared holy or otherwise for Gentiles.

If you want to talk about what the Sabbath provides, Jesus is my Sabbath and provides that rest God said they would never enter into.

I suppose this does not qualify as an answer for you.

Irrefutable evidence of 4th Commandment support by pro-Sunday sources

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