Iran...

[dvd_holc]

Hi

Some would say just a few years. Others say over a decade.

Since they have been named part of the axis of evil they have had nukes.

Iraq has been Invaded....................Iran is on the verge of being Invaded.

North korea will never be invaded.

Why they have Nukes.

I am sorry, you have said hi to me all along, hi

So then the reality of it is actually for a long time without Nukes we did not invade even though recently the cease fire treaty has expired. It is your view that we won't because of nukes even though we have the ability to take out those nukes. It was not nukes that caused the cease fire, nor was nukes that stopped it for decades. Your assertion does not hold a light to reality taken in context with the reality of the past and present dipolimatic circumstance of its allies and ours.

Goodbye,

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Yes it does because before the Nukes we had a communists In Russia backing them. It was Russian nukes that kept us out before.......and Chinese nukes...............Now with Russia not supporting them And China backing off it is their Nukes.

As far as taking out their nukes that is a risky business it only takes one nuke to mess up your whole day. and if they set off one in South Korea it would be bad for the US economy and US businesses. In addition they have Mssiles that could reach Japan with ease. No there is just to much at stake to invade.

 

[dvd_holc]

Hi

Yes it does because before the Nukes we had a communists In Russia backing them. It was Russian nukes that kept us out before.......and Chinese nukes...............Now with Russia not supporting them And China backing off it is their Nukes.

As far as taking out their nukes that is a risky business it only takes one nuke to mess up your whole day. and if they set off one in South Korea it would be bad for the US economy and US businesses. In addition they have Mssiles that could reach Japan with ease. No there is just to much at stake to invade.

Hi,

Yet, you fail to comprehend that North Korea is broke and their people are going without food. That North Korea's dictator is forcing people to worship his father as God under the threat of death. That North Korea is keeping a threat of war and is not trying to bring peace because they have to have their control....no there things at stake that are more important...the human lives. And, it goes beyond business economy.

Goodbye,

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

You are only proving my point Kim is far worse then Saddam or Iran. He spreads weapons and nuclear Technology to the worst scum........So why do we promise him not to invade and yet threaten Iran and Invade iraq.

the Answer is obvious.

 

[dvd_holc]

Hi

You are only proving my point Kim is far worse then Saddam or Iran. He spreads weapons and nuclear Technology to the worst scum........So why do we promise him not to invade and yet threaten Iran and Invade iraq.

the Answer is obvious.

Your simple answer also has a major complexity.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi dvd_holc

Yes it does.................... it certainly does.

May I suggest we trust Paul.

[4] No soldier on service gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to satisfy the one who enlisted him.

The complexities of politics and world diplomacy is for Pagans. We as soldiers of Christ We must not let ourselves get entangled in such arguments and human logic. Our mind must be singular in focus and objective. To live by the Words of Jesus and the Saints and to stand up for the weak and powerless against the Powers of this world regardless of what it means to our own life and security.

This is not done by armies and force or by violence and War but by passive resistance and speaking the Truth. It is True that evil men will always steam roll this course of Action but in the end they only pave a path to their own destruction.

Defence of the person with force is the way of the pagans not of Jesus or the Apostles or the Saints and Martyrs who all walked willingly to their death at the hands of evil men.

dvd_holc please hear my words my brother in Christ……………for they are words that lead to salvation but they are not really my words they are Jesus’ words. Christianity has lost its heart............... the Nation we live in and lead are lost and can no longer hear the truth. They follow the path of this world. They follow the path of the harlot. The Question we all must ask ourselves in these days is this.................... is it the path we as soldiers of Christ wish to take.

Mt:13:15: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Stand up and say no more lies ...no more wars..........no more actions based on business and profit........remember the harlot is just not about religion.............. but about commerce in a way that leads to death.

those who follow the harlot have waxed rich from this action. Ask your self who does this describe.

15: The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16: And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17: For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18: And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19: And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[dvd_holc]

Hi,I do have a struggle inside me. It is about nationality, politics, and how to be in life. I find myself drawn away from being a big American because I am spoken for by God. I am in a culture which he put me it. And, I have been shedding certain prides that went with that culture. But, I believe that theology without deed is dumb. To that end, if we fight against injustice (God's justice) then we will do some kind of action that will reflect that. I don't believe I am called to be a soldier of America or be a politian. I have been given certain things so then I use them for people. (Engineer who is intrust with livelihood others) Now, I don't know if that is who I am always going to be. But, I do know I am have the opprotunity to effect the government and I pray my vote goes to a person who will do God's work. I am going to become a person who is not judgmental or calls people names because it feels like am acusing and not being humble. I still trying work through my faith. And, I do believe getting rid of Iraqs leadership did bring more justice to the world even though some have selfish reasons. Further, I feel that someone has to stand up for all oppressed.

Shalom,

 

[bertie]

We are ALL living in satans world,and not the kingdom.Not one good deed goes unpunished.....not one!The reality is such that no matter what we can do,the sum total of everything will add up to evil.The best one can hope for is to avoid betraying your principals in your own mind,because like Christ told Peter,before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows ,three times,you will betray me.We betray our Lord every day just to survive.If we truly payed attention to the resultant evils inflicted on others in the name of our own personal survival,we would have ceased to exist long ago.....Or at least have made some major inroads on injustice.....
Because we refuse to suffer with those we see suffering,because we are in the end selfish and afraid,satan rules......We really have no excuse.......

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Dvd

The reality is getting ride of Saddam just changed who is killing the innocent. It went from him being responsible to us being responsible. Would it not be better to let them deal with themselves and let us worry about ourselves.

Look at Vietnam the killing stopped when America left. Are not the people better off today then when America was there.

True American business lost allot of money when Vietnam fell but the people there are far better off today then they were under our puppet government.

Time will show us that Iraq was a waste of life our lives and theirs. Saddam was not involved in terrorism he had NO WMD and had no intent on building any in the near future. In the end the Sheite fundy Muslims will control that country to the detriment of everyone both them and us but especially them and the women and people will suffer.

America will not win in Iraq and when we leave the killing will stop…….not at first for they will fight until one group is gone……but eventually it will stop when one group puts in an oppressive Government just as bad or worse then Saddam. Sure there will still be killing but not at our hands or our responsibility. We can not tell others what is the right kind of system Arabs do not live in democracies they never have and never will. It is not part of their culture and never will be. It is an illusion to think we can make these groups get along…………………. they have not gotten along in thousands of years and they will not start tomorrow or because we tell them to. What will end up in Iraq is a Sheite fundy government along the lines Iran.

What we may have done is create a monster that will have the Power to actually make war on the west. If Iran and Iraq were to unite in a Sheite Persian /Arab federation the outlook for the world would be very bleak indeed. The reality is our actions have made this far more likely an outcome and made the world a far more dangerous place.

I use to get involved in action groups and other things trying to make a difference but I came to realise that the Government is a living entity when you attack it………… it attacks back…….I believe this is why God referrers to them as beasts because they are truly alive and will devour you if you let them.

Now I just concentrate on helping those who need help…….the poor the hungry the sick the less fortunate and waste no time with civil affairs.

15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Jms:1:27: Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Working to be Spotless and to Follow the LAMB .the WORD……..where ever it takes me regardless of the Traditions of men and governments.

 

[exodus19]

when all the crap has hit the fan you will see who the real allies are in the mideast.
futhermore you will understand why the americans went to iraq, and set up tents.
those tents are permament, It was obvious from the get go. why?

when all the transition of before and after 911 was going on i was reading very intently the OT and it appeared there need be some protection to go on for Israel as they were only getting support from their best friend and allie the US from a far. and in order to see that there prophcies come true there needed to be an army out there that will keep them in peace and protect them from enemy fire.

so along came 911 but away went the Usa who had been preparing and planning this iraq attack anyway for years, since they had a close watch on buddy oil man saddam.
now they laugh at him in court and make a press time and sell news about all this stuff.
never forget there are other powers at work to see the things go on as they should and ultimately as God says "I rule over evil as well and look out for there sin"
God is the director and producer of all, is He evil b/c He permits and allows all?
NO, why is there so much hate and war killing an terrorism? _____well just look at the leadership and you will see, that's what the Bible holy Prophets repeat.

it's not man that desires all the sin and violence and evil, it's the kings who are mad after power , fame and power to see that they are the historical figures that all should remember. Will we ever forget clinton? or that big smiling face that stood at his door.
It's all pretty sick, and the jews love this stuff. For the most part they rule the show and they play puppeteer with most of the power players of the world but you know what God is peeved off at them bad and though they experienced one holocost ride, it's not b/c they are all so chosen and wonderful in God's eyes.
read carefully the Bible and you will see these days are at hand.

 

[dvd_holc]

hi, justthefacts

I don't agree with you, and I doubt you will ever see beyond your own perception.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Dvd

Well about 20 years ago I use to see things as you seem to. I thought Invading Other countries was right if we were out to replace an evil man. I thought the Iranians were evil for talking the hostages. I thought we should defend Israel no matter what they did.

Since then I have done allot of research and allot of study. What I found was the Stated goals and the actual goals of our "freedom & democracy" crusades where not the same. While we always talk of "Freedom and Democracy" the reality is always very different we put in power and support self serving people who murder and torture their own people. The only qualification is that they give our companies what we want.

Since you feel this is not the case please provide a list of countries where we have not supported such people. Where we have not started secret prisoners and tortured people and participated in secret summary executions

Let me help you out here as you have mentioned Afghanistan and Iraq as recent successes

Afgannistan = Karazan……………Carried less then 10% of the vote outside Kabul. Afghanistan has many well documented “dark prisons” to which prisoners are brought from all over Asia. The prison run by the Afghanistan army and Americans in plain cloths is used as a torture site. http://www.accuracy.org/newsrelease.php?articleId=1053
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm?Page=Article&ID=230
Http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1245236,00.html

Now it is true he does not publicly execute people for the smallest of crimes like adultery and the like. However the Government does execute people secretly. An Afghan general was recently executed in secret and it has been revealed he had been talking To amnesty about secret executions and the reality of Torture in Afghanistan.

Iraq……………..We are helping put in Power the most fundamentalist Muslim in Iraq. Never Mind American torture and Abuse. Already while the American Army is still there we have found no less then three “secret prisons” run by the Sheite fundamentalist controlled Iraqis government Prisons where torture is the Norm and summary execution is a very real………………..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/11/AR2005121101002_pf.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1520136,00.html

DVD you need to look allot deeper at what is going on………………..these are not successes………………..We are becoming what we claim we are fighting. We are destroying what America has always stood for. And the Stated goal of making America safer is slipping away faster than ever.

You say I will never see "beyond my own perceptions"...................................These are NOT my perceptions they are documented facts……………………Show me a reason to see it different show me documented facts as I have shown. The reality of what is going on is very sad indeed…….and lets not forget this is only what we have managed to find out about.

Those in charge of America Today do not respect the corner stones of America and what made America great.

When recently discussing secret phone taps spying on Americans without warrants and the Partiot Act.those with concerned stated it was a violation of the Constitution..............Bush responded back at them.

“I don’t give a G*dd*m, I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way. Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It’s just a G*dd*m piece of paper!”

DVD you need to do allot more research on this we are being lied to and led down a very dark road by people who do not respect our own laws and rights never mind those of others around the world.​

 

[dvd_holc]

hi Just The Facts,

You have might have missed from my sig. that my name is David. Though you empathize my name at times, it is not going to lead me to a greater attention that what I already giving it.

Now, I don't doubt that CIA has always had "secert" as I have the presumption they have opperated like this for a long time. But, it is recently that people are making a big deal about it. Further, the torture part...it has always been the trend of people to take matters into their own hands. It does concern me. The Partiot Act does concern me. The direction of developing the communities views on "terrorist" does concern me. The direction of the development of Iraq does concern me. They all do. As I know that I am only responsible for myself, I know that each person involved is responsible for themselves. The government is not responsible for what it does but not the responses of others. It possible lies. It might be caught in lies. But, I will leave the judgment for others. I don't feel it is my calling to change to government. I feel my calling has to do with individuals. There are some who feel their calling is for the government and system to change it for the better. So be it...If you are so anger with it, then actively participate in changing it. I have already stated I am a Christian. My love and concern is for God; therefore, I make according desicions. Daniel was in the Bablyonian adm. They had more things wrong with them then the current America community. Daniel did what was good in the eyes of God. So can another person of faith in the USA community.

Do you have the link for GB's comments? Even if you do...I would not believe because of the abuse of the internet. GB's will be held accountable with what he was given.

If you are so big on research why have you not listed the aims and intentions of corresponding individuals and community in which you have been discussing? Why do you short cut so much?

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

The meeting in question was of republican Senators. His words have been confirmed by three Senators.

The Facts that the main stream media has not reported this just shows that our media is no longer objective it often takes weeks or months for them to pick up a story like this. It will take one of the Big Boys to run this story before it becomes a flood in the 24 hr news channels.

just type What he said into google.

there are many sites with this story some are left wing sites others are more mainstream.

http://colorado.indymedia.org/newswire/display/12159/index.php


As far as getting involved as I stated I tried that but there is no changing what is going on. All it got me was my phone tapped my email monitored and Tax audits.

The Tax department is used as a tool against those who would speak out against the powers that be. I had nothing to hide so their attacks went nowhere but it became obvious to me that this is Beast that can not be changed.

I am not trying to get you to get involved and change things I am trying to get you to see that it is all an illusion that nothing is made better…………….that the stated goals are an illusion and that by supporting these people in any way you are actually supporting the crimes they commit.

I too am a Christian and I could not care less for their agenda. God will judge all. But it is my job as a Christian to be a witness to the Truth. So many are caught up in these lies and believe all this propaganda. If they would investigate they would see the Truth and perhaps just perhaps they would listen with their hearts and turn and be healed.

 

[dvd_holc]

Hey Just The Facts,

I believe being a witness to the Truth also means an active participation that is beyond words and ideas. We participate by doing deeds which infers that Christians would actually get involved in the system to subvert disharmony of thrist of power and money to that of justice and freedom. I don't get involved when I hear a flag go up to start a charge. I (and I am sure you too) am moved of the Holy Spirit. So then, as I am assured that the Holy Spirit works through me, so then He works through others that are in the system. I am not going to withdraw my hope that the Holy Spirit can still effectively move through the stiff necked. Bush may lie. He may get frustrated. I still call him to be the leader of this culture that I participate in.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Dvd

So then you think Paul was mistaken when he said we should avoid entangling ourselves in civil affairs.

 

[dvd_holc]

Hi Dvd

So then you think Paul was mistaken when he said we should avoid entangling ourselves in civil affairs.

hey,
Paul was speaking to a specific time and place which we should not lift the bible out of. We can pray about changing the world. Still, we it comes down to it...God asks why don't you do something about it. We are participators in God's world. We engage it where ever the need is because most often than not...God's kingdom of Heaven has to break through there and God's desires for people to participate in that fashion. It is written that God made Joseph the PM of Egypt, Daniel in Bablyon, and Nehemiah the cup bearer. John the Baptist did not tell soldiers of Rome to stop being soldiers. Jesus did not tell his disciples who were in place of position (cheif tax collector) to stop being what they where. Why then, should I or any other if it is the calling?

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi dvd

So what you are saying is the world is a different place now.

You also seem to be saying jesus did not ask people to leave their life behind and move forward in a new way.

Just to be sure I understand you is this what you are saying

 

[bertie]

I think I like you Factsy.....stay the course.....i used to think more proactive too...
It is time to let God make His enemies His footstool.its a meat grinder out there.....peace...bv.

 

[exodus19]

to both of you who are trying to say what is what,

remember this, you are both subject to your own limited news media and what the press reports to you in your own country, You make assertations based soley on these tidbits of info.

being canadian-born and spending a good part of my time there, we do get a diiferent slant on the political world and who's who. even from the americans who think they know all.
Why do americans think they have all the answers? It's simply the way the news and info is reported 'packaged', and the way the words and visuals are chosen to support those tidbits of news.
Now in the countries you are talking about, there is a completely different perspective. Actually most countries in the world have their own views, so to sit here on the eschatology forum and argue your points of view gets way out of line except that we can see that the world leaders are very busy trying to put the democracy ''save all and freedom and liberties and justice for all'' spin all over the world as the answer to world peace, or hopes thereof.

This is their push along with a global acceptance of the religions and embrace all theologies ie gods, which are all subordinate in a sense to the powers of the armies and men who wail there ammo or pride themselves in being able to have equal types 'nukes' for their own defence.

Currently you have groups of western nations who say that certain countries are dangerous with them, yet, they have them and lie that they would never use them. lies and lies repeated over and over.
This is the characteristics of Evil KINgs, and that is what you have as leaders.

The Holy Prophets point out that these men are not caring for your eternal spritual welfare but your social and short term enjoyment and liberties to enjoy sin life, you know why to cause you to labour and pay taxes to them.

THIS SHOULD BE WHAT YOU SEE AND WHAT IS IMPORTANT.

THE CURRENT SYSTEMS OF GOVE DO NOT REPRESENT A MORAL FIBER.

They (in the usa)are currently arguing or debating the issues of some bobo who maybe a fudgecake and reverse the freedom for a women,or teenagers to kill a potential life-child.

even they have debates whether or not 'butt stuff' is good for the love making machine and hollywood film industry to lower the barrier as to how much more they can exploit christian girls and boys into acting out like their sodom and gamorrah types, before them. Their procucers, ie paramount boys are apt to do, make idols out of heathens to increse $ profits.
And you wonder why God is so upset with the chosen ones?

This is not a difficult read, so keep reading. You may all notice i don't waste my time in the other forums b.c eschatology, ie revelation, is all based in the OT.

and that's where , i come in, in in.

well you have yet to believe me, but eternal time will tell won't it?

God and His promise will not fail you, though you may fail yourself if you refuse to see Him as He is.

and on we go , don't we.



so start with that premise and the words of jesus in rev ch 2 & 3

you all seem to love not to discuss all that's written therein. wonder why?

Perhaps you are having a hard time thinking that the song of Moses is the song you will sing together.

i notice you don't address that point either.

notice your patterns of discussion strategically avoid certain points and chapters and verses, preferring to argue times and days and what daniel wrote., and whether the 1000 years is before or after an the tribulation which most of you will never get right b/c of your physical way of reading.

You're not alone,___ it's going on all over the christian forum chat rooms the same, and when i visit them to bring up the song of Moses and Rev ch 2,3,4,5 everyone typically calls me a troll and ignores my posts.

there are some forums that might consider you know it alls as trolls.

funny isn;t if how all your patterrns are so seemingly alike.

mine doesn't change either, oh well

hell has enlarged herself hasn't she?

who said that?

Jerry, Issy or Easy, our old propheteers from days gone by. or are they back, being beheaded for the love of God.

ok guys , now are you going to read my whole post and say i'm mocking my own brothers.

and say, you can't do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well were did the court jester go?

bertie , r you still with us, or gone to bed?