I would agree. The Lord will place the nation in a position of great peril and pressure for the purpose of getting some of them to turn to Him .... a remnant part will. The tribulations will also be against the nations of the world for unbelief and some will turn, but most will not and their intransigent behavior toward the Lord will only increase because of His judging. Some will worship Satan's cult religion of his beast at the time, but not all. I think it will be the core of the adherents of Islam in the Middle East who will do this. Those who do turn to Jesus during the 70th week will most likely be martyred for their faith by the beast and followers and some humans will survive the period and will have to be gathered and separated for enterance into the Lord's millennial Kingdom. It is the elect mortals of believing Israel that will form the basis of His Kingdom.
Hello Stephen1, I have dealt with Daniel 7: 8: 9: at the beginning of this study post did you not read those posts?
I would like to make it clear that I have the right to be wrong because the little book of Daniel, is locked up, ‘sealed until the time of the end’ and we still have a bit of time to go yet.
If I give a counter arguments to you, I am in no way suggesting that you are mistaken or incorrect in what you believe.
I respect your views but do not necessarily agree with them.
Stephen1, quote. “The he goat and the ram is a vision of past prophecy fulfilled and the conflict was between Alexander the Great and the Persian Empire.” Unquote.
May I respectfully disagree?
I do so because in the following verses we are told that ‘the ram was standing by the river Ulai’ when he is attacked by the ‘he goat’ from the West.
Daniel and the vision’s geographical location, was by that river Ulai, which is in Iran and is now called the river ‘Karun.’
That is not the place where Alexander The Great fought the Medo/Persians.
That took place on the Plains of Arbella, over 1000 miles away.
So the location of the vision’s battle does not match Alexander’s. (thanks to 66Books)
Please note that capitals are used for emphasis only.
Daniel 8: 2. And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I WAS BY THE RIVER OF ULAI.
Daniel 8: 3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, THERE STOOD BEFORE THE RIVER A RAM which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.”
The shorter horn Iraq starts off first and then the larger Iran, is about to start pushing and it is and will be defeated swiftly.
Daniel 8: 6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
So that is the first problem I have with the suggestion that it was Alexander The Great, because the geographical location is different from that of the vision’s.
If I may say without causing offence, because my argument is with the suggestion and certainly not with you personally, so please don’t be offended.
There is, the incorrect TIME factor when suggesting that the Greek empire supposedly being involved within the vision because it came to power in 331BC then faded into history in 146 BC which is far too early.
Yet in the vision of Daniel 8 where the angel Gabriel himself, makes it abundantly clear that the vision concerns’ TIME OF THE END’ and ‘THE LAST END, in verses 17 and 19.
Daniel 8: 16. And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, UNDERSTAND, O SON OF MAN: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.
The angel Gabriel, started to explain the vision with the following words. (highlighted in capitals.)
Daniel 8: 19. And he said, Behold, I will make thee know WHAT SHALL BE IN THE LAST END of the indignation: FOR THE TIME APPOINTED THE END shall be.
So it seems to me that the Greek empire of 331BC to 146 BC is far too early to be a contender for the vision’s ‘time of the end’ and ‘last end.’
I am removing the word (Sacrifice) from the following verses because it was not in the original scrolls.
It was added by the translators that is why it is either in italics or parenthesis added to indicate such.
Now we are even told the duration of the vision in Daniel 8: verse 13 “How long shall be the vision concerning the daily, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Six and a bit years for the whole vision from the Lion to the kingdom of God, being established. So Again it cannot starts and end over two thousand years or be concerned with the Greek empire.
The ‘Time Of The End,’ leads to the ‘Last End,’ which leads to ‘Time No Longer.
Rev 10: 6. And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, THAT THERE SHOULD BE TIME NO LONGER:
Rev 10: 7. But IN THE DAYS OF THE VOICE OF THE SEVENTH ANGEL, WHEN HE SHALL BEGIN TO SOUND, the MYSTERY OF GOD SHOULD BE FINISHED, as he hath DECLARED TO HIS SERVANTS THE PROPHETS.
Of course that concerns Rev 11: 1 to 15 and 1 Cor 15: 51 – 52.
When we pull it all together it flows, it makes sense.
Also there is the detail of the manoeuvres used by the ‘he goat’ ‘yavan,’ it would have impossible for Alexander, to match!
Alexander, did not have the technological equipment.
Daniel 8: 5. “And as I was considering, behold, an HE GOAT CAME FROM THE WEST ON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH, and TOUCHED NOT THE GROUND: and the GOAT had a notable horn between his eyes.”
That means planes and ships, from the West, yet as I said Alexander fought the Medo/Persians upon the plains of Arbella, that’s hardly off the ground or near the stated target of the vision.
Another problem is that of the name of the ‘he goat’ ‘YAVAN’ being translated as somehow meaning ‘Greek’ The translators thought it was Greek so translated it as such.
However when checking Moses out the word ‘Yavan’ does not mean ‘Greek’ as such it means ‘Gentile nations.’
Geneses 10: 4. And the SONS OF JAVAN; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
Geneses 19: 5. “BY THESE WERE THE ISLES OF THE GENTILES DIVIDED IN THEIR LANDS; EVERY ONE AFTER HIS TONGUE, AFTER THEIR FAMILIES, IN THEIR NATIONS.”
My conclusions are as follows.
May I respectfully say, that there are serious biblical problems with the suggestion of Alexander, being the ‘he goat’ it is not supported by scripture.
Along with that we have the biblical battle location, of the vision’s stipulated ‘Ulai river’ yet, Alexander’s battle was on the Arbella plains, over 1000 miles away.
Another problem is of the he goat/yavan, meaning ‘Gentile nations’ and not meaning ‘Greek.’
There is also the time factor being not within the specified ‘time of the end concerning the vision’ and ‘last end,’ which leads to the coming kingdom where God says ‘Time No Longer’ at the seventh trumpet in
Rev 10: 7 and of course that concerns Rev 11: 1 to 15 and 1 Cor 15: 51 – 52.
Yet another problem is the 2300 ereb Boqer which means evening morning and when we see Geneses 1: 1 – 31. Gen 2: 1. Where these same words ‘EREB,’ ‘BOQER’ are used to describe creation WEEK, then we have a length of time for the vision of only SIX and a BIT YEARS from START to FINISH which is confirmed by Gabriel in Dan 8: 14.
So applying the Greek empire to the ‘he goat’ over 2000 years ago for only part of the vision is far too long a time span which is well and truly outside that of the vision’s.
Stephen1, quote.
“It is the Little horn who will arise in the future in the northern geography where the northern division of Alexander's Asian Empire existed. If we are close to the 70th week (7 years of tribulation), The Little horn will appear in today's boundaries of northern Iraq and Iran (Persia) will be part of his confederation. [Ezekiel 38:5][Daniel 8:8-12, 8:23-25, 11:2-4, 11:36-45, 12:7]” Unquote.
The Little horn will rise up but you make a very interesting point using Ezekiel 38: 5. I read the whole chapter, thank you Stephen.
Another point about your suggestion of. quote ‘(7 years of tribulation)’
The tribulation is only three and a part years.
I say that because of the many Bible, references to that particular time span.
Daniel 12: 12. “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
The above is the tribulation period it is also confirmed in Rev 12: 9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12: 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, WHERE SHE IS NOURISHED FOR A TIME, AND TIMES, AND HALF A TIME, from the face of the serpent.
That is 3 ½ years of tribulation.
