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Christians appear before the judgment seat of Christ, not what he is describing!
In fact it is that very thing -- as it turns out.
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Christians appear before the judgment seat of Christ, not what he is describing!
May I say to you that if you think that sarcasm or attitude is going to overpower those who disagree with you, I or anyone else is going to go through ALL of the stuff you posted, you will be waiting for a long time my friend.
I will respond to ONE thing you said...…………
"Will you accept what scripture has said then, will you accept what has been shared now, or will you attempt to go to yet another scripture, which I will tell you in advance cannot help OSAS, but will demonstrate the futility of that dangerous doctrine. "
I for one can not change your opinions. I can only post what the Scriptures say.
You are free to believe any false doctrine you choose to and if you choose to live in the despair and depression of NOT KNOWING you are heaven bound, then God bless you my friend.
John 3:36......
"He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath everlasting life:. . ."
John 3:16...….
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
1 John 5:13...……..
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ."
john 5:24...…...
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ."
Did Ellen Whiet teach that a true Christian in the Investigative Judgment lose their salvation?
You did not post the verses from Matthew 16 or from Romans 11.
I do not see anything in either production that would negate OSAS.
You want and asked for us to speak to your Bible verse but you are not posting those verses.
Remember....…..assumption is not Bible exegesis!
I do not blame you my friend. I would not want to accept what a woman taught over what God teaches.
All of my sins have already been forgiven and not held against me anymore by God, due to the death of Jesus in my stead for my sins, so what will be investigated?
The Bible teaches that Christians shall be examined for their good works, in order to see if eternal rewards are kept/lost, but NEVER as to if keeping eternal life or not! !
Hello Bob.
You said.
=======================
Bob:
Daniel 7 - (which apparently you are not reading) says that the result of the pre-advent investigative judgment is that "judgment is passed in favor of the saints"
======================
I read that text (Daniel 7:10), where does that verse say 'sinless beings'. May I ask what translation your reading from?
What Law are we to keep than? Which of the 489 parts of it?
How many of the 1050 are we to keep in the NT???
But bro. BobRyan, which of those, being quoted directly from the OT, should be kept?
Which of those in the context of 'jews', like all of the Gospels, should be kept? Like John 14:15? Should we throw this out too? I mean the 'Lord's supper' was originally only 'jews', on a 'thursday night' at that, what about that? Acts 15 is being directly cited from Levitical and Deuteronomic health law, which in the OT was for 'Israel', what about that?
Should we (Gentiles) toss Matthew 5? Romans 13:9? the whole book of Hebrews?
According to scripture (KJB) does God have record books in heaven of every thought, word and deed, yes/no?
According to scripture (KJB) does Jesus sit on a throne in the Heavens, yes/no?
Does a person have to be physically present in the direct presence of Jesus in order to be judged, yes/no? (there are examples in scripture)
If the answer to the first two previous questions was "yes" and "no" to the third, then a judgment can take place by 'proxy', or in otherwords, based upon what is upon record of the life in the Heavenly books, just as there are such cases upon the earth, wherein a defendant "appears" before a judge and seat and court, not in direct person, but by "representation" or "by proxy" or even by "record".
According to scripture (KJB) does God have record books in heaven of every thought, word and deed, yes/no?
According to scripture (KJB) does Jesus sit on a throne in the Heavens, yes/no?
Does a person have to be physically present in the direct presence of Jesus in order to be judged, yes/no? (there are examples in scripture)
If the answer to the first two previous questions was "yes" and "no" to the third, then a judgment can take place by 'proxy', or in otherwords, based upon what is upon record of the life in the Heavenly books, just as there are such cases upon the earth, wherein a defendant "appears" before a judge and seat and court, not in direct person, but by "representation" or "by proxy" or even by "record".
The judgment does not cause anyone to go from being lost to saved... and it does not cause anyone who is saved to be become lost. The judgment is the Matt 7 action that Christ describes as that of looking at the tree. "By their fruits you shall know them" -- Looking at the tree does not change the tree.
However the Bible shows that OSAS is a false doctrine in places like MAtthew 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and in Romans 11.
Ok so Bible verses it is... nice to have that focus on this thread
Matthew 18 -- Forgiveness Revoked
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
OSAS does not survive Matthew 18
Romans 11
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again
OSAS does not survive Romans 11
Did Ellen Whiet teach that a true Christian in the Investigative Judgment lose their salvation?
You did not post the verses from Matthew 16 or from Romans 11.
I do not see anything in either production that would negate OSAS.
You want and asked for us to speak to your Bible verse but you are not posting those verses.
Remember....…..assumption is not Bible exegesis!
God bless you my friend and thank you for posting the Scriptures.
If we can focus on them then usually any theological differences can be settled.
You have chosen Matthew 18:15 and have the understanding that Gods forgiveness is revoked. But that has nothing to do with OSAS now does it????
Mathew 18:15-18 CONTEXTUALLY Applies to a Sin Between Two Individual Christians.
Then you used Romans 11:18. Actually those verses have nothing to do or say about OSAS. They are about ISRAEL and the Church IS NOT ISRAEL.
While you are ready to acknowledge that you were included in the covenant made with Abraham, and are now partakers of the same blessings with him
The judgment does not cause anyone to go from being lost to saved... and it does not cause anyone who is saved to be become lost. The judgment is the Matt 7 action that Christ describes as that of looking at the tree. "By their fruits you shall know them" -- Looking at the tree does not change the tree.
However the Bible shows that OSAS is a false doctrine in places like MAtthew 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and in Romans 11.
Ok so Bible verses it is... nice to have that focus on this thread
Matthew 18 -- Forgiveness Revoked
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
OSAS does not survive Matthew 18
Romans 11
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again
OSAS does not survive Romans 11
As you may have noticed I don't quote anything else - unless it is a non-SDA source that I find helpful for the discussion.
Depends on whether you think that people who have to pay for their own sins are saved ... which amounts to someone in the lake of fire (second death) being called "saved".
Is that how you define "saved"?
Christ said "So shall My Father do to you" not "So shall your neighbor do to you".
This is a pretty large detail that makes all the difference in the world.
So while it is true that these sins (and "sin is the transgression of the law") between brothers deals with the moral law of God - the last six commandments -- still the one that "returns your debt" is God the Father according to Christ.
The servant in Matthew 18 does not owe his brother - he owes the king.
But then when that servant does not forgive his brother - the king returns the debt to him that he owed the king -- not the debt he owed his brother. IN fact the text points to no debt at all that he owed his brother.
Simply put - OSAS does not survive Matthew 18 "details".
This is a very big "elephant" in OSAS's living room.
The judgment does not cause anyone to go from being lost to saved... and it does not cause anyone who is saved to be become lost. The judgment is the Matt 7 action that Christ describes as that of looking at the tree. "By their fruits you shall know them" -- Looking at the tree does not change the tree.
However the Bible shows that OSAS is a false doctrine in places like MAtthew 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and in Romans 11.
Ok so Bible verses it is... nice to have that focus on this thread
Matthew 18 -- Forgiveness Revoked
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
OSAS does not survive Matthew 18
Romans 11
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again
OSAS does not survive Romans 11
As you may have noticed I don't quote anything else - unless it is a non-SDA source that I find helpful for the discussion.
Depends on whether you think that people who have to pay for their own sins are saved ... which amounts to someone in the lake of fire (second death) being called "saved".
Is that how you define "saved"?
Christ said "So shall My Father do to you" not "So shall your neighbor do to you".
This is a pretty large detail that makes all the difference in the world.
So while it is true that these sins (and "sin is the transgression of the law") between brothers deals with the moral law of God - the last six commandments -- still the one that "returns your debt" is God the Father according to Christ.
The servant in Matthew 18 does not owe his brother - he owes the king.
But then when that servant does not forgive his brother - the king returns the debt to him that he owed the king -- not the debt he owed his brother. IN fact the text points to no debt at all that he owed his brother.
Simply put - OSAS does not survive Matthew 18 "details".
This is a very big "elephant" in OSAS's living room.
The judgment does not cause anyone to go from being lost to saved... and it does not cause anyone who is saved to be become lost. The judgment is the Matt 7 action that Christ describes as that of looking at the tree. "By their fruits you shall know them" -- Looking at the tree does not change the tree.
However the Bible shows that OSAS is a false doctrine in places like MAtthew 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and in Romans 11.
Ok so Bible verses it is... nice to have that focus on this thread
Matthew 18 -- Forgiveness Revoked
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
OSAS does not survive Matthew 18
Romans 11
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again
OSAS does not survive Romans 11
As you may have noticed I don't quote anything else - unless it is a non-SDA source that I find helpful for the discussion.
Depends on whether you think that people who have to pay for their own sins are saved ... which amounts to someone in the lake of fire (second death) being called "saved".
Is that how you define "saved"?
Christ said "So shall My Father do to you" not "So shall your neighbor do to you".
This is a pretty large detail that makes all the difference in the world.
So while it is true that these sins (and "sin is the transgression of the law") between brothers deals with the moral law of God - the last six commandments -- still the one that "returns your debt" is God the Father according to Christ.
The servant in Matthew 18 does not owe his brother - he owes the king.
But then when that servant does not forgive his brother - the king returns the debt to him that he owed the king -- not the debt he owed his brother. IN fact the text points to no debt at all that he owed his brother.
Simply put - OSAS does not survive Matthew 18 "details".
This is a very big "elephant" in OSAS's living room.
...
The servant in Matthew 18 does not owe his brother - he owes the king....
Simply put - OSAS does not survive Matthew 18 "details".
This is a very big "elephant" in OSAS's living room.
The judgment does not cause anyone to go from being lost to saved... and it does not cause anyone who is saved to be become lost. The judgment is the Matt 7 action that Christ describes as that of looking at the tree. "By their fruits you shall know them" -- Looking at the tree does not change the tree.
However the Bible shows that OSAS is a false doctrine in places like MAtthew 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and in Romans 11.
Ok so Bible verses it is... nice to have that focus on this thread
Matthew 18 -- Forgiveness Revoked
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
OSAS does not survive Matthew 18
Romans 11
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again
OSAS does not survive Romans 11
As you may have noticed I don't quote anything else - unless it is a non-SDA source that I find helpful for the discussion.
Depends on whether you think that people who have to pay for their own sins are saved ... which amounts to someone in the lake of fire (second death) being called "saved".
Is that how you define "saved"?
Christ said "So shall My Father do to you" not "So shall your neighbor do to you".
This is a pretty large detail that makes all the difference in the world.
So while it is true that these sins (and "sin is the transgression of the law") between brothers deals with the moral law of God - the last six commandments -- still the one that "returns your debt" is God the Father according to Christ.
The servant in Matthew 18 does not owe his brother - he owes the king.
But then when that servant does not forgive his brother - the king returns the debt to him that he owed the king -- not the debt he owed his brother. IN fact the text points to no debt at all that he owed his brother.
Simply put - OSAS does not survive Matthew 18 "details".
This is a very big "elephant" in OSAS's living room.
No, he's known as bro BobRyan, though earnestly solemn with intent.Are you serious????
Mantra. The real evidence is before you.Matthew 18 has nothing to do with OSAS.
No, he's known as bro BobRyan, though earnestly solemn with intent.
Mantra. The real evidence is before you.