Investigative Judgment (Seventh day Adventists)

BobRyan

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Heb 8:1 tells us that the "main point" is the work of Christ in that heavenly sanctuary.

Daniel 7 tells us that the judgment is - pre-advent. and that it is based on the content of what is in "the books" of heaven. (Call it "investigative").

Why are your posts avoiding the texts of scripture dealing with the topic?



Daniel 7 - (which apparently you are not reading) says that the result of the pre-advent investigative judgment is that "judgment is passed in favor of the saints"

Romans 2 - (which apparently you are not reading) details the process followed in judgment that differentiates between the saved and the lost.

None of that is arguing that God does not already know the future.

Daniel 7 (which apparently you are not reading) says that in the courtroom are the "myriads and myriads" of sinless beings. And that "the court sat and the books were opened"..

It is not a matter of "God trying to figure something out" - rather like the case of the book of Job - it is God demonstrating something "to the group".

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. (Isaiah 44:22)

And in Ezek 28 -- Satan has already been consumed - reduced to ashes
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.

And when God speaks to Abraham "I have made you" a father of many nations when in fact at the time - Abraham had none.

Moses and Elijah stand "with Christ" in glorified form in Matthew 17 - on the mount of transfiguration BEFORE the cross. Fully forgiven before the blood of Christ had been shed. For Christ is the "Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" - the benefits of that sacrifice applied all the way back to Adam under the "ONE" Gospel of Gal 1:6-9, preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 and the basis of the new birth, forgiveness and justification in all ages.

I am going to stick with the Bible on this one.

hint: I was quoting the Bible... read the post.

1. First read your Bible.
2. Then tell us what you think about others... such as Ellen White.

All of my sins have already been forgiven and not held against me anymore by God, due to the death of Jesus in my stead for my sins, so what will be investigated?

Your response to the Bible texts listed above... noted.

Read more Bible.

For example of chapters you are ignoring --

Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

That was the Bible.

This next bit is mere creative writing

The Bible teaches that Christians shall be examined for their good works, in order to see if eternal rewards are kept/lost, but NEVER as to if keeping eternal life or not! !
 
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BobRyan

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He wants to keep saying that "my" 1689 Baptist Confession of faith supports his views, !

Since my view is that the TEN Commandments are in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant - and this is exactly what "Baptist Confession of Faith" as expanded by C.H. Spurgeon in the 1800's also admits.

Read it.
 
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BobRyan

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I would say in responce to your long post that the Bible teaches that Christ's atonement on the cross has perfected (past tense)


Read the actual Bible.

1 John 2:2 - "Christ is the atoning SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world".

Notice that in Lev 16 "DAY of Atonement" God says that BOTH the work of Christ as "lamb of God" (sin offering) AND the Work of Christ as High Priest ("the MAIN point" Hebrews 8:1) are required for the full Gospel scope of the term "Atonement" to be addressed.

Bible details matter.
 
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BobRyan

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It is very insulting for you to keep telling us ………"READ THE BIBLE".

I would venture to say that some on this site have done more of that than you have and we simply do not look at it through the eyes of the SDA glasses.

I point to the Bible...
you point to AToday or Ellen White.

Your response to the Bible texts brought up in the post - is to ignore them.

And then you ask WHY I would say "read the Bible"???? Seriously??
 
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YeshuaFan

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Since my view is that the TEN Commandments are in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant - and this is exactly what "Baptist Confession of Faith" as expanded by C.H. Spurgeon in the 1800's also admits.

Read it.
But his view on what actually it means now under the NC to keep the Sabbath agrees with me, not you!
 
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YeshuaFan

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Read the actual Bible.

1 John 2:2 - "Christ is the atoning SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world".

Notice that in Lev 16 "DAY of Atonement" God says that BOTH the work of Christ as "lamb of God" (sin offering) AND the Work of Christ as High Priest ("the MAIN point" Hebrews 8:1) are required for the full Gospel scope of the term "Atonement" to be addressed.

Bible details matter.
ALL of salvation plan was accomplished in full while Jesus hung on that Cross!
 
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YeshuaFan

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I point to the Bible...
you point to AToday or Ellen White.

Your response to the Bible texts brought up in the post - is to ignore them.

And then you ask WHY I would say "read the Bible"???? Seriously??
You quote the Bible, but only in the way EW saw it!
 
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BobRyan

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He wants to keep saying that "my" 1689 Baptist Confession of faith supports his views, !

Since my view is that the TEN Commandments are in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant - and this is exactly what "Baptist Confession of Faith" as expanded by C.H. Spurgeon in the 1800's also admits.

Read it.

But his view on what actually it means now under the NC to keep the Sabbath agrees with me, not you!

So then "instead of just me posting it" -- YOU also go around insisting that "ALL TEN of the Ten commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant"??

YOU also post that the 7th day Bible Sabbath began in Eden and applied to all mankind from the very start???

Seriously? You are asking us to believe that?

The BCoF argues that the 4th commandment starts off in Eden as the actual 7th day Sabbath -- but then gets "bent" to point to week-day-1... but other than that it is unchanged.. and THIS is what YOU have also been posting?? Seriously? you can point us to one of your posts doing that??
 
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BobRyan

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Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

That was the Bible.

This next bit is mere creative writing

The Bible teaches that Christians shall be examined for their good works, in order to see if eternal rewards are kept/lost, but NEVER as to if keeping eternal life or not! !
 
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BobRyan

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I would say in responce to your long post that the Bible teaches that Christ's atonement on the cross has perfected (past tense)


Read the actual Bible.

1 John 2:2 - "Christ is the atoning SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world".

Notice that in Lev 16 "DAY of Atonement" God says that BOTH the work of Christ as "lamb of God" (sin offering) AND the Work of Christ as High Priest ("the MAIN point" Hebrews 8:1) are required for the full Gospel scope of the term "Atonement" to be addressed.

Bible details matter.

ALL of salvation plan was accomplished in full while Jesus hung on that Cross!

More Bible - less creative writing.

Hebrews 8:
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.

Heb 7
23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

your argument "is with the text". Hence my repeated efforts to point to "the text" of scripture for those who oppose it.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Since my view is that the TEN Commandments are in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant - and this is exactly what "Baptist Confession of Faith" as expanded by C.H. Spurgeon in the 1800's also admits.

Read it.



So then "instead of just me posting it" -- YOU also go around insisting that "ALL TEN of the Ten commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant"??

YOU also post that the 7th day Bible Sabbath began in Eden and applied to all mankind from the very start???

Seriously? You are asking us to believe that?

The BCoF argues that the 4th commandment starts off in Eden as the actual 7th day Sabbath -- but then gets "bent" to point to week-day-1... but other than that it is unchanged.. and THIS is what YOU have also been posting?? Seriously? you can point us to one of your posts doing that??
Baptists tend to see the Sabbath day for us now under the NC as being Sunday, do you?
 
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YeshuaFan

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Read the actual Bible.

1 John 2:2 - "Christ is the atoning SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world".

Notice that in Lev 16 "DAY of Atonement" God says that BOTH the work of Christ as "lamb of God" (sin offering) AND the Work of Christ as High Priest ("the MAIN point" Hebrews 8:1) are required for the full Gospel scope of the term "Atonement" to be addressed.

Bible details matter.



More Bible - less creative writing.

Hebrews 8:
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.

Heb 7
23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

your argument "is with the text". Hence my repeated efforts to point to "the text" of scripture for those who oppose it.
Did Ellen Whiet teach that a true Christian in the Investigative Judgment lose their salvation?
 
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BobRyan

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Baptists tend to see the Sabbath day for us now under the NC as being Sunday, do you?

Not all of them do that ... sad to say many of them think that the 10 are "downsized to nine" or deleted altogether.

The Baptist Confession of Faith claims God's commandments got "edited" at least the 4th commandment did - to point to week-day-1 instead of remaining as it is in the Word of God "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10

on that one detail I do differ with them... but you apparently differ with them on almost every detail of their "Sabbath made for mankind" and "all TEN of the Ten Commandments in the New Covenant" teaching. At least from your posts so far.

What a joy it would be to have at least one Baptist on this area of the board that agreed with their own BCoF as explained by C.H.Spurgeon in the 1800's.

As for that one point where I do differ with the BCoF --

Well Mark 7:6-13 is the text I am going to be staying with.
 
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BobRyan

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Where do you disagree with her understanding of the scriptures then?

I prefer to stay with the topic of the thread - and to continue pointing out what the Bible says - even if someone does not want to read that part of the Bible.
 
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BobRyan

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Did Ellen Whiet teach that a true Christian in the Investigative Judgment lose their salvation?

The judgment does not cause anyone to go from being lost to saved... and it does not cause anyone who is saved to be become lost. The judgment is the Matt 7 action that Christ describes as that of looking at the tree. "By their fruits you shall know them" -- Looking at the tree does not change the tree.

However the Bible shows that OSAS is a false doctrine in places like MAtthew 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and in Romans 11.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Not all of them do that ... sad to say many of them think that the 10 are "downsized to nine" or deleted altogether.

The Baptist Confession of Faith claims God's commandments got "edited" at least the 4th commandment did - to point to week-day-1 instead of remaining as it is in the Word of God "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10

on that one detail I do differ with them... but you apparently differ with them on almost every detail of their "Sabbath made for mankind" and "all TEN of the Ten Commandments in the New Covenant" teaching. At least from your posts so far.

What a joy it would be to have at least one Baptist on this area of the board that agreed with their own BCoF as explained by C.H.Spurgeon in the 1800's.

As for that one point where I do differ with the BCoF --

Well Mark 7:6-13 is the text I am going to be staying with.
I am a reformed Baptist, so would pretty much agree with what is taught in the 1689 Confession, and it does not make Sabbath as Saturday for us now under grace!
 
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YeshuaFan

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I prefer to stay with the topic of the thread - and to continue pointing out what the Bible says - even if someone does not want to read that part of the Bible.
I would take that as meaning "no, I agree with all she taught concerning the Bible"
 
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YeshuaFan

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The judgment does not cause anyone to go from being lost to saved... and it does not cause anyone who is saved to be become lost. The judgment is the Matt 7 action that Christ describes as that of looking at the tree. "By their fruits you shall know them" -- Looking at the tree does not change the tree.

However the Bible shows that OSAS is a false doctrine in places like MAtthew 18 "Forgiveness revoked" and in Romans 11.
If you decided to now follow Sunday worship and not following Sda doctrines, wouid you still make Heaven?
 
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