Introducing myself

[Chesterton]

If you should choose to remain an island, then I say, "Good day to you sir!"

Oh I hope you respond, Ephraim. I just want to see him say it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Rjn6W9jYk

 

[aiki]

Knowledge, my dear boy, is the font of understanding and peace.

I'm your "dear boy"? How...peculiar.

Should not Israel converse with Palestine in an effort to share their mutual loves and philosophy? I have not warred with christians before, but I do admit that I have not sought to understand them. This leaves a mystery between my love interest and myself which sometimes confounds our colloquies. Do you disagree that learning more about those who share her faith will aid my attempts at apprehension?

No.

Oh yes, as I have said before, I have read both testaments of your bible, and paid some extra attention to the gospel of John. It did help me to learn the rote tenets of your doctrine, I suppose, but not why you hold to them.

Huh. Well, when I read the Bible the "why" of my faith is laid quite bare. It is not surprising to me, though, that you cannot see this.

I'm not sure if you caught the full purport of my moniker, but it does indicate that I do not understand your bible as supernatural divination.

Approaching the Bible with naturalistic prejudices is going to greatly limit your "understanding" of the Christian faith - as you doubtless to some degree already know.

To me, it is merely literature. If it helps to assuage, I do find the book very entertaining.

Assuage what, exactly?

You said previously that you became a christian as a child.

Looking back I don't know now if, as a child, I really was, in the fullest sense of the term, a Christian. As I said, my understanding of salvation was limited largely to the method of escaping Hell. I think God probably took my faith where it was at, but as I grew my faith had to mature and deepen as well, which it did.

I assume that the church that you mention here was your parents church. Please let me know if this a true or false assumption.

True.

I note that you are located in Winnipeg. I spent some time there some years ago, and I do recall wonderful post-prandial conversations with a local theologian named Lord Kissick. I say, he was a charming fellow. You wouldn't happen to know him, would you? An excellent chap.

No, I've never had the...pleasure of this person's acquaintance. Why would you think it was a possibility that I had? Winnipeg is not exactly a small place.

Peace.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Oh, now you are just talking nonsense!
You have done nothing to contribute to this thread, and I openly chastise you for it.
YO! Funny talking dude. Are you blind or what? i added God in big red letters to your black and white, albeit pretentious, shenanigans. And for my troubles i am accused of being nonsensical and am openly chastised?! That hurts, bro! But i refuse to lose heart, because: "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." (Matthew 4:11)

You should be ashamed of yourself – you call me pretentious? I have only sought an honest, open conversation about "origins" (if you will), and you have met it with the shallowest prosthelytizing, hopelessly void of reasoning or good faith. If this is, "exactly as it should be," then goodness help us all!

Goodness Himself does indeed stand ready to help us all, but ya gotta ask.

"Send not to know for whom the bell trolls, it trolls for thee."

Funny you should mention "trolls"! Talk about yer freudian slips!

If you should choose to remain an island, then I say, "Good day to you sir!"

i did indeed used to be an island--for about 50 years. However, since being blessed by God with His indwelling Holy Spirit, among other wondrous changes i have been aided and supported in my spiritual growth and have developed into a peninsula. God is not through with me yet--so stay tuned!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

Oh, now you are just talking nonsense!
You have done nothing to contribute to this thread, and I openly chastise you for it.

You should be ashamed of yourself – you call me pretentious? I have only sought an honest, open conversation about "origins" (if you will), and you have met it with the shallowest prosthelytizing, hopelessly void of reasoning or good faith.

MY DEAR FRIEND,

i am sorry that my proselytizing is, as you say, "shallow"--i do what i can, with God's help--with what little i have to work with. Imagine how depthless it would be if there were no God to assist.

However, "hopelessly void of reasoning or good faith" is, i think, perhaps unwarranted. The "reasoning" i use follows that of God's written Word to the best of my admittedly weak abilities, and my faith in Him is as good as it gets given my limited personal resources. i does what i can!

As far as the lacks you point out, if you could perhaps pray instead of criticize, i'm sure God would be most happy to intervene on your behalf, to the extent He knows to be necessary, and straighten things out.

JOY TO THE WORLD--AND TO YOU IN PARTICULAR!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

No, I've never had the...pleasure of this person's acquaintance. Why would you think it was a possibility that I had? Winnipeg is not exactly a small place.

Peace.

Hullo, Aiki.
Thanks again for your thoughts. I will have to take some time to digest your contributions. I do hope that you will allow me to pose a direct question to you from time to time.

Lord Kissick was at one time involved with the evangelical communities in your city. I suspected (incorrectly, it seems) that if you were involved in this community that you may have met him in that community. The community was much smaller than the city, you see.

Peace be with you and yours.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Funny you should mention "trolls"! Talk about yer freudian slips!

I shall not waste our dear readers' time to disabuse you of your misinformed notion of trolls. That is what google is for.

I am here on business. You are wasting my time, and the patience of those who have had the human decency to contribute to my mission. I have not yet taken this action, but I will now assure you that if your casual interloping continues I shall be forced to report it to the forum moderators for what it is.

Have a nice day.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[Chesterton]

Well, what people or events did originally bring you to the christian faith?

One thing which brought me to the Christian faith was reading many of the prominent atheists of the past and present, and finding fault with their analysis of reality.

 

[seashale76]

Dear Gentleman,

Such a charmer, you are! If you're interested, click on my blog here at CF. There's only one post in it, but it gives the testimony, more or less.

Regards,
seachale76

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

One thing which brought me to the Christian faith was reading many of the prominent atheists of the past and present, and finding fault with their analysis of reality.

Ah Chesterton, old friend. I am delighted to hear from you.

I do find your claim to be very interesting, and I would love to ply you for more information – what atheists, what faults, etc. However, before I ply, I might ask if you have posted this information on other threads. Perhaps why can save some time and trouble for you and our readers if you offer a signpost to some of your past work.

If not, let me know, and I shall ply away.

For now, I leave you with this a propos quote from the bard,
"Look here, Chesterton, don't you be so happy, /
"And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad."

Hoping that your day is a good one.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Dear Gentleman,

Such a charmer, you are! If you're interested, click on my blog here at CF. There's only one post in it, but it gives the testimony, more or less.

Regards,
seachale76

I thank you, Seashale for your munificence. My dear, you are too kind.

I find myself very busy with issues of my estate this week, but I shall certainly investigate your Web log. It is not often the tenure of a gentleman to read a lady's diary, so I do thank you for allowing this scrutiny, and for helping to further my investigation. I shall not abuse my privilege. I do hope that you will allow me to pose you a specific question or two if I find myself not able to unfasten those parts I find ineffable.

Remaining your servant,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[ephraimanesti]

I shall not waste our dear readers' time to disabuse you of your misinformed notion of trolls. That is what google is for.

MY DEAR FRIEND,

Calm down, big fella! i was merely commenting on your rather strange use of "TROLL" in your misquote from John Donne. No harm intended.

I am here on business. You are wasting my time, and the patience of those who have had the human decency to contribute to my mission.

If you would care to explain exactly what your business really is and reveal the true nature of your mission, i would be more than happy to render aid. Thus far your intent appears to have been to charm rather than inform. Now that the introductions are complete, perhaps we can get on to "what up, bro?"

I have not yet taken this action, but I will now assure you that if your casual interloping continues I shall be forced to report it to the forum moderators for what it is.

You misunderstand--i wish very much to be an active participant in the web you are spinning, but you haven't made your purpose clear and i am at a bit of a loss as to how to support your "gentlemanly" excursion into spiritual matters. Helping me to understand and render aid and input appropriately would preclude the necessity of your snitching--which is a rather ungentlemanly thing to do without just cause.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Chesterton]

Ah Chesterton, old friend. I am delighted to hear from you.

We really must get together for a chukker or two sometime.

I do find your claim to be very interesting, and I would love to ply you for more information – what atheists, what faults, etc. However, before I ply, I might ask if you have posted this information on other threads. Perhaps why can save some time and trouble for you and our readers if you offer a signpost to some of your past work.

If not, let me know, and I shall ply away.

I think I made a similar statement in another thread once, but I didn't go into any detail (probably I wasn't asked to). I'm not sure where to start, other than with the general complaint that I've never heard an atheist offer a good alternative (nay, any alternative) to God. I would be very short with any salesman who appeared at my door suggesting I make a purchase, if he couldn't tell me what it was I was being asked to purchase. If you ask anyone from Nietzsche to Dawkins, "where did everything come from?", you'll get the same answer: "I don't know; no one knows."

Now when it comes to general worldviews and moralities, the situation is quite different. A dozen different atheists can expound at great length the merits of a dozen different moralities, and do so quite passionately. But I don't see a reason to buy into a worldview or morality for which no basis can be given; I don't see any good in buying a cart which no horse can pull, or a house with no foundation, so to speak.

(That's likely the worst summation I've ever attempted, but it does possess the valuable merit of brevity. )

For now, I leave you with this a propos quote from the bard,
"Look here, Chesterton, don't you be so happy, /
"And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad."

He he, were you already familiar with that, or did you use Google?

 

[brinny]

Hullo good people.

As you might guess from my moniker, I am an atheist. There is no malice or demonry sewn up in this identifier – it is merely a fact that I have never, and likely never will believe in any supernatural being. Perhaps it is a personal shortcoming, perhaps it is not. In any case, I do hope that you will reserve judgment in favour of open, productive conversation.

I am hoping that you may help me. I have sought for some time to understand what motivates a person to become a believer. I thought that this might be the best forum to investigate this phenomenon. Wouldn't you?

This is not an attempt to harry you good people with inefficacious drivel intended to humiliate or injure. In fact, I am desperate to understand you, because I am in a life-relationship with one of you.

I think that you can understand, then, my presence here. Peace through understanding, eh what?

And so…

I am supposing that it would be entirely fruitless to ask of you your reasons for being christians. This would be opening a very subjective box, and neither you nor I can presume that I would understand these notions. Furthermore, I have previewed many of your threads with other atheists on this forum, and really – how these things can become wanton silliness so quickly!

As I maintain that profundity lies in fact, I hope to be able to keep my questions as objective as possible. Perhaps instead of my asking, "Why are you a christian?" I could instead ask, "What things originally brought you to the christian faith?"

Well, what people or events did originally bring you to the christian faith?
I am eager to know.

Thank you very much for your time and serious responses.

-The Gentleman Atheist

Mine is a long story. Perhaps i will share in bits n' pieces...it's a journey i'm still on....

I have a question for you, however, if you do not mind my asking:

Do you welcome questions, deep ones, that are waaay outta da box?

 

[aiki]

Hullo, Aiki.
Thanks again for your thoughts. I will have to take some time to digest your contributions. I do hope that you will allow me to pose a direct question to you from time to time.

Sure, fire away.

Lord Kissick was at one time involved with the evangelical communities in your city. I suspected (incorrectly, it seems) that if you were involved in this community that you may have met him in that community. The community was much smaller than the city, you see.

Uh huh. Well, the evangelical community in Winnipeg is neither small nor static in number. I would hazard to guess that there are at least 100,000 people (if not significantly more) in Winnipeg who would call themselves evangelical Christians. You see, then, why I would wonder at your question about this Lord Kissick person.

Anyhoo...have fun with Ephraimanesti! He's blunt but sincere.

Peace.

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

You misunderstand--i wish very much to be an active participant in the web you are spinning, but you haven't made your purpose clear and i am at a bit of a loss as to how to support your "gentlemanly" excursion into spiritual matters. Helping me to understand and render aid and input appropriately would preclude the necessity of your snitching--which is a rather ungentlemanly thing to do without just cause.

I assure you, Ephraimanesti, I have been a gentleman each and every living second of my life. I merely do no tolerate recidivist trouble makers. This nature of horseplay does no one any good. I make the assumption that we are grown ups here, and may deal with each other as such.

That being said, I understand your words here to be a somewhat loose offering of peace; and I do accept your olive branch. I hope that we can repair this schism, for the benefit of our dear readers – some of whom provided you with a reference which aided in my decision here.

It struck me that the problem here may be that you are not accustomed to communicating with those who do not hold a faith or creed. For this occasion I have composed a short verse that I hope will provide you with a practical aid for communicating with non-christians. You may use it as an aphorism of sorts; and I am hoping that it may prove useful for you in the future.

If christendom is the plan
that Christ had for us,
then – for the love of man –
give us Barabbas!

If you would care to explain exactly what your business really is and reveal the true nature of your mission, i would be more than happy to render aid. Thus far your intent appears to have been to charm rather than inform. Now that the introductions are complete, perhaps we can get on to "what up, bro?"

Here are my own words, explaining "what [my] business really is and reveal[ing] the true nature of [my] mission":

I am hoping that you may help me. I have sought for some time to understand what motivates a person to become a believer. I thought that this might be the best forum to investigate this phenomenon. Wouldn't you?

This is not an attempt to harry you good people with inefficacious drivel intended to humiliate or injure. In fact, I am desperate to understand you, because I am in a life-relationship with one of you.

I think that you can understand, then, my presence here. Peace through understanding, eh what?

Well, what people or events did originally bring you to the christian faith?
I am eager to know.

Thank you very much for your time and serious responses.

Please note that the use of the words "people" and "events". I am sure that you will agree that your one-word answer of "god" was mistakenly used – at the very least because you were not speaking to your audience. My original reaction was not reproach, but a genuine entreaty for explication.

Onward in peace,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

He he, were you already familiar with that, or did you use Google?

Being an educated gentleman, I have received a more than adequate training in letters, but I must say that I find particular solace in the works of Verlaine (and Lloyd). Particularly, the contrapuntal zither stylings that accompany the lyric. These are artists that our time has forgotten, and damn it all, it is a shame.

I must admit, Chesterton, I took you for another mere philistine, until you (in another thread) made knowing reference to the esoteric literary works of St. Ignatius de Pape, and several other of similar artistic stature. I take my hat off to you, sir, and hopefully honour you with this (translated) quote from de Pape:

"I roam, with this small parcel of valerian and merely my good humour to support me whilst my lonely soul yearns to sequester home with persons of greater stature than me. I implore life to match the grand achievement of scandinavian canticles."

Let's pause for a moment to reflect on those immortal lines.






These were truly noble men. We can only hope that our benighted times will find suitable successors for them.

I think I made a similar statement in another thread once, but I didn't go into any detail (probably I wasn't asked to). I'm not sure where to start, other than with the general complaint that I've never heard an atheist offer a good alternative (nay, any alternative) to God. I would be very short with any salesman who appeared at my door suggesting I make a purchase, if he couldn't tell me what it was I was being asked to purchase

I see. Tell me, where was it that you originally "bought" christianity? What was the compelling argument – the "unique selling proposition," if you will? I understand your present position, but not the circumstances of your original purchase – and this is what really fascinates me.

…But I don't see a reason to buy into a worldview or morality for which no basis can be given; I don't see any good in buying a cart which no horse can pull, or a house with no foundation, so to speak.

Now this leads us to an interesting philosophical investigation: what if that cart you mention is coming before its horse? What if morality itself is the source for worldview, the foundations for your house, or indeed for god itself? What are your thoughts?

A fellow lover of fine art, and conversation,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Mine is a long story. Perhaps i will share in bits n' pieces...it's a journey i'm still on....
…
Do you welcome questions, deep ones, that are waaay outta da box?

Brinny, I am charmed to meet you, my dear.
You are always welcome to grace my ever-humble ears with your story in bits, pieces, or in whole.

I do welcome all sorts of questions, but in order to honour the rules of this forum, we should try to stick to the topic on the thread in question. Here are my recommendations for sharing questions, deep or otherwise:

1.
You may always PM me.

2.
If you wish to share in public forum, I don't believe that it would be amiss to begin a new thread on that topic. I you do so, then please PM me to let me know the new thread exists. I will participate with an honest and open heart.

The best of luck with your journey. There are many of us sharing the highway with you. We need only to look out for each other, as there are bandits and scoundrels that march here too.

Yours,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

…the evangelical community in Winnipeg is neither small nor static in number. I would hazard to guess that there are at least 100,000 people (if not significantly more) in Winnipeg who would call themselves evangelical Christians.

100,000 people?!?!?!
Goodness, man! That must be over 1/6 of the population of that city! That is by and far out of proportion to the global evangelical christian movement. Are you able to verify your numbers? If so, please tell what could account for this imbalance of odds?

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Such a charmer, you are! If you're interested, click on my blog here at CF. There's only one post in it, but it gives the testimony, more or less.

Seashale, I have read your blog, and your tale is as eloquent as it is informative. I always enjoy perusing the works of those who have a capable pen, and can exercise an enjoyable turn of phrase.

Your story answers many of my queries, but leaves me with as many questions. I wouldn't burden you with the trite, so I hope that you will deign to answer these questions, which I select as my most sincere.

I was raised Pentecostal and I am rather immune to situations designed to manipulate emotions.

I do think that we may be on the same page with these magicians and mountebanks. You imply that this was your family's church when you were born, and remained so until you were an older teenager. You do not mention specific events that exposed you to what you perceive as a fallacy (or an outright lie, perhaps) of this particular christian sect. I would like to know what was the "tipping point" for you. What did you see that made you say, "Oh! What a giveaway!"?

I wonder if this had something to do with your thinking?

I decided to visit the same church I had once visited when I was seventeen-roughly twelve years before- for a comparative religions class in college. It had fascinated me to the point it was all I could talk about for at least a week, but I had no desire in those days before the internet was more than a university thing, to look into the faith seriously at that time.

Your thoughts, dear madam?

…my bitterness began to turn into hatred of all things Christian, to the point where I started to see that I was becoming the sort of person I didn't want to be.

Indeed. As an extension of my specific agreement with you in the above paragraph, we must say that it is the blind creed itself that is to be despised, not those who are blinded by it. I believe that the recent "urban" aphorism proceeds something thus: "Do not bear grievances for the sporting man. Instead reserve your hostility for the contest itself."

I also noted that the Internet played a role in your conversion to the Eastern church. Might you indeed be the first Internet conversion! Do you think it possible?

my husband (who was agnostic at the time) and I even turned around in the church parking lot and went out for coffee instead.

Indeed, as you can guess, I too feel this was the better decision – though a cup of fine darjeeling might have been the better choice of liquid refreshment. But perhaps you live in the american colonies, where a good cup of tea is not to be had. Oh well. Their choice.

In any case, this note is about your husband, and not the bitter swill of coffee, so I do digress. As you know, this thread is as much about connubial relations as much as it is about religion, and I am thus compelled to ask after your good husband's recent history. You say he was agnostic "at the time". Does our good man still profess to agnostism? (Please do pardon my flagrant use of paradoxes in terms.)

Excellent. Now, I must step out for a spot of chai.
"Such love must needs be tea, son, in my breast."

Yours,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[brinny]

Hullo good people.

As you might guess from my moniker, I am an atheist. There is no malice or demonry sewn up in this identifier – it is merely a fact that I have never, and likely never will believe in any supernatural being. Perhaps it is a personal shortcoming, perhaps it is not. In any case, I do hope that you will reserve judgment in favour of open, productive conversation.

I am hoping that you may help me. I have sought for some time to understand what motivates a person to become a believer. I thought that this might be the best forum to investigate this phenomenon. Wouldn't you?

This is not an attempt to harry you good people with inefficacious drivel intended to humiliate or injure. In fact, I am desperate to understand you, because I am in a life-relationship with one of you.

I think that you can understand, then, my presence here. Peace through understanding, eh what?

And so…

I am supposing that it would be entirely fruitless to ask of you your reasons for being christians. This would be opening a very subjective box, and neither you nor I can presume that I would understand these notions. Furthermore, I have previewed many of your threads with other atheists on this forum, and really – how these things can become wanton silliness so quickly!

As I maintain that profundity lies in fact, I hope to be able to keep my questions as objective as possible. Perhaps instead of my asking, "Why are you a christian?" I could instead ask, "What things originally brought you to the christian faith?"

Well, what people or events did originally bring you to the christian faith?
I am eager to know.

Thank you very much for your time and serious responses.

-The Gentleman Atheist

A question, sir. How did you find yourself in a life relationship with "one of us"?

Thank you kindly for responding.

I like tea and tea quotes as well.