Introducing myself

[The Gentleman Atheist]

GOD.

One single word being a somewhat shallow font from which we can draw conversation, I do ask that you kindly elaborate.

Thanking you in advance.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

God.

In the form of a nagging, inescapable, calling to learn about him and participate in his community of people - ie a local church congregation.

Curious. Others have mentioned this "nagging" also.

By "him" I assume you mean your religion's namesake, the Galilean. Though I do respect your answer, it leaves me with a few intellectual shadows cast by the subjectivity of a "calling". To further our pursuit of an objective formulation, may I modify my question for you: What made you choose the particular church that you did choose?

Or perhaps, if your "calling" itself is what denies my understanding, can you expound upon what it was that nagged – that which you could not escape?

Thank you for helping me in this undertaking.

With Respect,
The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Well, the way I became a Christian is rather different than most, I think. As a 5 year old boy, I was tormented by spiritual forces. One day, I heard about Jesus, and on one of those nights of torment, asked Him to help. And He did. I had an out of body experience, and stood before a being that radiated pure white light. I felt the most wonderful love and peace. Shortly afterwards, I was back in the physical world, and my life was never the same again. I've also experienced the influence of the Spirit if God - He stopped me from dying in accidents a few times. Once, He took full control of my body, to save me from certain death. I was just awestruck to see Him take over. It touched my heart to the very core.

Oh excellent, dear sir. This is completely beyond my experience, and I crave a further exposition. I am making the assumption that your experience is entirely subjective. Have you been able to display objective proof to others? Did other people also witness the same being at the same time in the same place as you? I would be interested by the opinions of a doctor of psychiatric medicine on this matter.

Please do let me know.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Ahem.
Domo arigato, Aiki, for your response.

Why is it necessary to understand why we have come to faith in Christ? You aren't in a "life-relationship" with any of us. Why not simply inquire of your love interest about her own faith?

Aiki, you may set aside your fears. This forum thread represents the second field of my investigation. My partner was certainly the first. I believe it to be a valuable enterprise to develop a more heuristic sense of the belief (christianity) in order to better understand the foundations of her faith.

My faith began as a child. Initially, God used the fear of hell to prompt me to take His gift of salvation. This motive for entering into a relationship with Him has altered entirely, however. Now, it is the daily fellowship with God and the excellent rational reasons for faith in Him that prompt my Christian worldview.
Peace.

I know that the fear of hell, and the means to avoid this fear are both offered by the doctrinal texts of christianity. Where was it that you first encountered these texts?

I whole-heartedly reciprocate your offering of peace.

Sincerely,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Its refreshing to have someone act like a gentlemen.

<bows cordially, picks up Salida's handkerchief>

 

[Chesterton]

Oh excellent, dear sir. This is completely beyond my experience, and I crave a further exposition.

Your avatar, name and writing style are giving me a great chuckle. I want to join in the thread, but I'm afraid I'll feel like Eliza Doolittle.

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Hmm, Dionysiou, have we met before?

&#8230;spiritual experiences both in the physical and in vision are amazingly convincing&#8230;

Yes, except when you do not have them. Again, I do beg you to eschew subjective reference as I can not grasp the personal nature of your experience.

Searched for God with all my heart and found Him.

I guess my question to you would be, "Why search for 'God', and not for 'Zoroaster'?" (&#8230;or Dionysius, for that matter) Perhaps if I understood the actual, physical context of your quest (rather than the whole "wooohoooo" of it all) I might better understand your experience.

Thank you for your&#8230; somewhat excited (&#8230;?) &#8230;response.

Awaiting your clarifications,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

First of all, I guess I will explain what happened when I became a Christian…

Hallâ, Norswede.

I do appreciate the kind testament of your current faith, but it does little to help me relate to my specific problem. I could relate many of those things to chance or your own strengths and perseverance. I seek to know why you chose christianity in the first place. You suggest that you were not always a christian – perhaps you could help me by describing what happened before you where a christian, and what convinced you to investigate the christian church.

With good wishes to thee and thine,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Hi again

I thought I'd add something that really touched me. A while ago, we had an oil fire in our kitchen. I started to panick, and asked the Spirit of God to help. He simply took over and everything was sorted in minutes. That's one thing I adore about Christianity - we receive God's Spirit to help, guide and teach us. His love is so mindblowing - there's nothing like it.

Oh wonderful! I am glad to hear that everyone is safe. Don't forget to replace your fire extinguisher!!

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Welcome the_gentleman_atheist.………
Anyway the_gentleman_atheist, that's my story.

Oh, excellent, WITT. This is the good stuff – told with eloquence and candour.
I may take this away to ponder for a time. If you will it, I may contact you, down the road, once this percolates in my consciousness a bit. (There is a lot to digest in your words, as you well know!) I am hoping that you will leave our conversation open until that time.

Also, weighing your "conversion" against the stories of others in this thread may help me to better understand your faith.

With a debt of gratitude to you.

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Your avatar, name and writing style are giving me a great chuckle. I want to join in the thread, but I'm afraid I'll feel like Eliza Doolittle.

Oh, please do join, Chesterton! I shan't disparage you for it, and your contribution would be valued.

By the way, dear sir, you don't happen to be Winthrop Chesterton, from the polo club? You old cad! I thought that I might run into you here!

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[aiki]

Aiki, you may set aside your fears.

Fears? Hmmm...I'm not sure what fears you mean...

This forum thread represents the second field of my investigation. My partner was certainly the first. I believe it to be a valuable enterprise to develop a more heuristic sense of the belief (christianity) in order to better understand the foundations of her faith.

Uh huh. Why do you believe this?

If you want to get at the foundations of the Christian faith it seems to me that your first field of investigation should be in the pages of the nearest Bible (I suggest starting with the Gospel of John).

I know that the fear of hell, and the means to avoid this fear are both offered by the doctrinal texts of christianity. Where was it that you first encountered these texts?

In church. As I said, however, this initial provocation toward God has been replaced over time by a much more enduring and happy motive.

I whole-heartedly reciprocate your offering of peace.

Peace.

 

[whereisthetruth]

Oh, excellent, WITT. This is the good stuff – told with eloquence and candour.
I may take this away to ponder for a time. If you will it, I may contact you, down the road, once this percolates in my consciousness a bit. (There is a lot to digest in your words, as you well know!) I am hoping that you will leave our conversation open until that time.

Also, weighing your "conversion" against the stories of others in this thread may help me to better understand your faith.

With a debt of gratitude to you.

The Gentleman Atheist

You are very welcome, and I would be happy for you to PM (personal message) me if you wish. I have no interest in engaging in a mere intellectual duel though, as much as I did at one time. I enjoy open and honest communication. I have given up trying to 'convert' anyone, that is God's job, not mine. However, I am happy to give you reasons for my faith and further testimonies of how God has revealed himself to and through me very powerfully on occasions. I am nobody special, but He is very willing to employ those who make themselves available to Him in simplicity and genuine honesty to reveal Himself to people, it's really amazing how He does that.

I don't want to sound overly simplistic, but I have found that it is almost impossible to 'understand' someone else's faith. Every person is unique and has their particular peculiarities that combine in an infinite variety of ways to manifest as 'faith' or 'belief'. I have found that it is a fruitless excercise to challenge or directly confront someone else's 'beliefs'. Rather it is best to engage in dalogue, and together seek to learn of each other's personal story. You have your life and reasons for believing as you do, and I have mine. We would be both best served by engaging in a mutual relational discovery rather than an intellectual (non-relational) battle of 'witts' that usually leads nowhere.

You have your own individual personality, history, needs and desires. And God wants to fulfil you accordingly. So, with all due respect, you must approach God in as authentically 'you' a manner as you can. You will only 'find God' if you are truly open to Him revealing Himself. You don't have to be false in any way, He knows the true degree of your desire to discover Him. And He knows the intellectual issues you are confronted with in trying to come to terms with this thing called 'Christian faith'.

It is the experience of millions throughout history that by the mystery of the Spirit, He is able to relate to us all in a unique way, while still retaining his own true character and nature. (In other words, God isn't 'whatever you perceive him to be' (ie. simply a subjective reality, as some would say), but in another sense He is to each of us 'what we know Him to be by experience and knowledge' at any given time; and our personal knowledge of Him grows, matures and changes as we seek after Him by intellectual investigation, and (more importantly) by personal relational experience.

You might be surprised to discover that God may be 'showing up' in many subtle ways in your life even now as you have 'cracked open the door' by visiting this forum. Don't be surprised that at some point you surprise yourself by discovering that you are somehow less 'atheistic' than you thought you were, without really perceiving why or how. God is quite surprising the way he works!

By the way, I must admit that I find your writing style and communication (very 'upper crust' English) amusing, but I do appreciate people who can communicate in writing effectively.

Enjoying this.

Cheers.

 

[andreha]

Oh excellent, dear sir. This is completely beyond my experience, and I crave a further exposition. I am making the assumption that your experience is entirely subjective. Have you been able to display objective proof to others? Did other people also witness the same being at the same time in the same place as you? I would be interested by the opinions of a doctor of psychiatric medicine on this matter.

Please do let me know.

The Gentleman Atheist

Well, that's the strangest thing - proof is rather difficult to produce in such circumstances. I wouldn't know what a doctor would think of my experiences - as I don't find it out of the ordinary, in my frame of reference.

 

[ephraimanesti]

One single word being a somewhat shallow font from which we can draw conversation, I do ask that you kindly elaborate.

Thanking you in advance.

The Gentleman Atheist

MY DEAR PRETENTIOUSLY OSTENTATIOUS FRIEND,

"GOD", far from being "a somewhat shallow font" is an arrangement of letters symbolically representing He who encompasses the Universe, and by Whose Will alone keeps all that is within it functioning according to His design and purpose.

No, i don't expect that "God" will draw much conversation here, but that's exactly as it should be.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

The Gentleman Atheist said:
"This forum thread represents the second field of my investigation. My partner was certainly the first. I believe it to be a valuable enterprise to develop a more heuristic sense of the belief (christianity) in order to better understand the foundations of her faith."

Uh huh. Why do you believe this?

Knowledge, my dear boy, is the font of understanding and peace. Should not Israel converse with Palestine in an effort to share their mutual loves and philosophy? I have not warred with christians before, but I do admit that I have not sought to understand them. This leaves a mystery between my love interest and myself which sometimes confounds our colloquies. Do you disagree that learning more about those who share her faith will aid my attempts at apprehension?

If you want to get at the foundations of the Christian faith it seems to me that your first field of investigation should be in the pages of the nearest Bible (I suggest starting with the Gospel of John).

Oh yes, as I have said before, I have read both testaments of your bible, and paid some extra attention to the gospel of John. It did help me to learn the rote tenets of your doctrine, I suppose, but not why you hold to them. I'm not sure if you caught the full purport of my moniker, but it does indicate that I do not understand your bible as supernatural divination. To me, it is merely literature. If it helps to assuage, I do find the book very entertaining.

In church. As I said, however, this initial provocation toward God has been replaced over time by a much more enduring and happy motive.

You said previously that you became a christian as a child. I assume that the church that you mention here was your parents church. Please let me know if this a true or false assumption.

I note that you are located in Winnipeg. I spent some time there some years ago, and I do recall wonderful post-prandial conversations with a local theologian named Lord Kissick. I say, he was a charming fellow. You wouldn't happen to know him, would you? An excellent chap.

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

I don't want to sound overly simplistic, but I have found that it is almost impossible to 'understand' someone else's faith. Every person is unique and has their particular peculiarities that combine in an infinite variety of ways to manifest as 'faith' or 'belief'. I have found that it is a fruitless excercise to challenge or directly confront someone else's 'beliefs'. Rather it is best to engage in dalogue, and together seek to learn of each other's personal story. You have your life and reasons for believing as you do, and I have mine. We would be both best served by engaging in a mutual relational discovery rather than an intellectual (non-relational) battle of 'witts' that usually leads nowhere.

This is the type of profundity that can only come from someone who has walked on both sides of an experience. I commend you for your strength, wisdom, and cordial nature.

I sense that some of this also comes from living in the prison colony. Have strength, dear man. All is not hopeless. Enjoy your time on this earth in the physical bounty of that great continent.

I regret that I may have to agree with you, that we may never truly know another person, and that a battle of the 'witts' may be the worst use of our energies – however, I also notice the wedding bands on your profile, and I am sure that you understand that such an undertaking is well worth the effort – even if it is merely the effort itself that contributes to your kindness for one another.

Oh, but I am getting off of my topic now. I thought of an excellent question to ask of you. My colleague, Dr. Dawkins (we are both gentlemen, not both biologists) once constructed a spectrum of belief which included categories of "weak" atheist or "strong" atheist (six and seven on his scale, respectively). I find this to be a weak nomenclature, and feel that it really misses the point. I find it more prudent to investigate the premises for atheism (or faith).

In your days as an atheist, were you an atheist de facto, or an atheist de jure? Were you an atheist because you saw a banner to fight under, or were you merely a person who did not ever believe in the supernatural?

I ask, because it confuses me how a de facto atheist may convert to christianity. Do you think it is a valuable distinction?

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Well, that's the strangest thing - proof is rather difficult to produce in such circumstances. I wouldn't know what a doctor would think of my experiences - as I don't find it out of the ordinary, in my frame of reference.

Dear sir! You had visions! Shining bright lights and whatnot.
Not any old "joe", walking down any old street can attest to that!

That is certainly out of the ordinary – truly amazing, indeed. Which is what prompts an old pragmatist like myself to enquire about proof. It is a real intellectual curiosity.

It saddens me that you can not share this proof. Please, if you can illuminate it at all, then do pm me, or add it as a contribution to this thread.

In the meantime, thank you for contributing to my little pet project here.

Sincerely,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

MY DEAR PRETENTIOUSLY OSTENTATIOUS FRIEND,

"GOD", far from being "a somewhat shallow font" is an arrangement of letters symbolically representing He who encompasses the Universe, and by Whose Will alone keeps all that is within it functioning according to His design and purpose.

No, i don't expect that "God" will draw much conversation here, but that's exactly as it should be.

Oh, now you are just talking nonsense!
You have done nothing to contribute to this thread, and I openly chastise you for it.

You should be ashamed of yourself – you call me pretentious? I have only sought an honest, open conversation about "origins" (if you will), and you have met it with the shallowest prosthelytizing, hopelessly void of reasoning or good faith. If this is, "exactly as it should be," then goodness help us all!

"Send not to know for whom the bell trolls, it trolls for thee."
If you should choose to remain an island, then I say, "Good day to you sir!"

Sincerely,

The Gentleman Atheist

 

[The Gentleman Atheist]

Dear Friends,

I have investigated this forum's system for conferring reputation. Please do not post a response specifically addressing this concern, but do let me know (in an aside within your posts) if this is your own preferred system. Otherwise, I shall continue to mention you in my regular weekly missive to Her Majesty.

Your faithful servant,

The Gentleman Atheist