Intimacy

[Nadiine]

Actually it is important because it's very misleading and directly contradicts what the scriptures teach about salvation. Such a statement reveals that you believe, even though you have not said so, that Jesus is just waiting around doing nothing, hoping you'll ask Him into your heart or that you'll say the sinner's prayer, or that you'll do something so that He can be allowed to be your savior. It's works righteousness and it's heresy.

(along with putting us in full control of our salvation as if it's our
idea & our pursuing of God)

This type of view puts God in the passenger seat, observing us
work at our salvation .

 

[david_x]

I presume you are talking about Jesus?

20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

It doesnt say he will bash teh door in and make you eat with him

I didn't mean to imply that he did. Only that God wasn't some far off thing that we could search for or that he was searching for us. He is always there, some will answer but most will not.

 

[david_x]

God does ALL the seeking actually.
God CHOSE His disciples - He chooses us; predestination.
(no I'm not a full blown Calvanist either) - but He does choose us.

We're "dead in sin" - we are at odds with God by nature and we don't seek Him on our own in our natural [dead] spiritual status.
God first seeks US out & draws us to Himself. It's only then
that we can accept Him after He's enabled us to see the truth
from Him.

Even after salvation, it's God who causes us to even Will
to continue with Him. We need His continual working in us
even after spiritual regeneration.

Apart from HIM, we can do nothing nor would we want to.
Philippians 2:13
for it is God who is at work in you,
both to will and to work for His good pleasure.


John 6:44
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:43-45 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
Romans 3:10-12


10as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

(not my caps)

​

I know that He knows who will make it into heaven, but that doesn't mean the gift is not available for everyone.

btw, my point was not that one seeks after God...

 

[david_x]

I think you need to read in your Bible the following verses and meditate upon what they mean.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--

Rom 3:10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. Rom 3:11 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." Rom 3:13 "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips." Rom 3:14 "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." Rom 3:15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery, Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known.", Rom 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it-- Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

I'm not sure what you thought my point was, because I was not implying that people need to seek after God. (How often do you go looking for someone right outside your door after all.)

 

[david_x]

(along with putting us in full control of our salvation as if it's our
idea & our pursuing of God)

This type of view puts God in the passenger seat, observing us
work at our salvation .

Seriously, you guys are reading into this way too far.

 

[Zecryphon]

(along with putting us in full control of our salvation as if it's our
idea & our pursuing of God)

This type of view puts God in the passenger seat, observing us
work at our salvation .

Semi-Pelagianism is the new path to salvation. We meet God halfway, we give him something... like an invitation into our lives or a recitation of the sinner's prayer and He gives us salvation. Christians are working deals with God, when God doesn't work deals.

 

[Zecryphon]

Seriously, you guys are reading into this way too far.

It's always the other person isn't it David? It couldn't possibly be that you're not reading far enough into it, could it?

 

[Zecryphon]

I'm not sure what you thought my point was, because I was not implying that people need to seek after God. (How often do you go looking for someone right outside your door after all.)

I don't have to go looking for people right outside my door, they come to me. I've had Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses mostly. Maybe one day I'll get a Scientologist or a Hare Karishna or a Moonie. But so far it's been a steady diet of LDS and JW's. The other people that are outside my door are landscapers, painters, and the guy from the Chinese restaurant down the street. But they're considerate enough to leave a card with a bag of rocks attached or a menu wrapped around a pair of chopsticks.

 

[Zecryphon]

I'm not sure what you thought my point was, because I was not implying that people need to seek after God. (How often do you go looking for someone right outside your door after all.)

You said this: Behold He stands at the door and knocks, he is always there because he always loves us. There is no seeking.

Which was in response to my statement of:

None of which can be done until God takes action first and seeks you out to save you. Your loving of God is done in response to what He has first done for you. A lot of people tend to forget that.

So from your statement above it looks as if you're saying that God does not seek after anyone. He is always just standing right outside your door, waiting for you to open it up and invite Him into your life. Which is a form of Semi-Pelagiansim, because before God has the ability to save you, you have to do something so He can be allowed to save you... such as opening the door and inviting Him in. It elevates you to a position over God and reverses the master/servant relationship that is demonstrated all throughout scripture, where God is our master and we are His servants. Plus the scripture you posted about Jesus standing at the door and knocking has to do with the end times, not with salvation.

 

[Nadiine]

I don't have to go looking for people right outside my door, they come to me. I've had Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses mostly. Maybe one day I'll get a Scientologist or a Hare Karishna or a Moonie. But so far it's been a steady diet of LDS and JW's. The other people that are outside my door are landscapers, painters, and the guy from the Chinese restaurant down the street. But they're considerate enough to leave a card with a bag of rocks attached or a menu wrapped around a pair of chopsticks.

Oh if you want the Moonies you have to head to LAX Airport here

 

[david_x]

It's always the other person isn't it David? It couldn't possibly be that you're not reading far enough into it, could it?

I wrote it, I know how far it was supposed to go.

 

[david_x]

You said this: Behold He stands at the door and knocks, he is always there because he always loves us. There is no seeking.

Which was in response to my statement of:

None of which can be done until God takes action first and seeks you out to save you. Your loving of God is done in response to what He has first done for you. A lot of people tend to forget that.

So from your statement above it looks as if you're saying that God does not seek after anyone. He is always just standing right outside your door, waiting for you to open it up and invite Him into your life. Which is a form of Semi-Pelagiansim, because before God has the ability to save you, you have to do something so He can be allowed to save you... such as opening the door and inviting Him in. It elevates you to a position over God and reverses the master/servant relationship that is demonstrated all throughout scripture, where God is our master and we are His servants. Plus the scripture you posted about Jesus standing at the door and knocking has to do with the end times, not with salvation.

He is omnipresent, maybe you mean call?

 

[elephunky]

So which Christians have bashed your door in and made you eat with them?

Different Christians from different churches and different social circles. These ones that think ramming their opinion down your throat is a way to go.

 

[Nadiine]

Seriously, you guys are reading into this way too far.

I just replied to your statement that did say God does all the seeking.

I'm not attacking, I just clarified it using scripture. Whether you meant
it a certain way or not, that's how it came out & how it reads, so I
think it's important to respond to things like that using the bible.

 

[Nadiine]

Different Christians from different churches and different social circles. These ones that think ramming their opinion down your throat is a way to go.

well I sure hope that you called the police when they stormed
your house,
and hope that you were able to get your door fixed

 

[Nadiine]

All the Christians I know, WELCOME and support Christians going out with
the gospel to people....

I find it interesting that you call it "ramming it down their throats".

Would you say this of the prophets & disciples too? They went
out into the streets proclaiming Christ.

 

[elephunky]

haha that made me giggle Nadiine

 

[marshgreencohen]

anything that's tagged as intimate can span from kissing to making love.even in doing so,Bible tells a different story about this issue.should still abide in the laws.

 

[Zecryphon]

Oh if you want the Moonies you have to head to LAX Airport here

Or the commuter lot at exit 42 off of the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut. They sell their flowers there.

 

[Zecryphon]

well I sure hope that you called the police when they stormed
your house,
and hope that you were able to get your door fixed

If they tried that at my house they'd wind up on the ground with just enough .40 caliber slugs to neutralize the threat.