Interrogatory on the Book of Revelation

[Cosmic Charlie]

This is an embarrassing question for me because I should know the answer.

What is the Catholic position on Revelation ?

I've always thought it was that it's an excellence of example of apocalyptic literature written about Christian peoples in difficult times.

The thing about this is that if this is true then Revelation is not actually describing future events. The Apocalyptic style merely uses trappings and symbols of end times as a genre into which to write a story. Much like modern Westerns which use a specific time and place that everyone understands as a framework to tell a story.

But if this is true, and to be clear here I haven't said anything isn't, then Revelation should be used solely as a morality tale and parable. It would not actually be a prediction. In fact, if it was to be seen that way then all examples of apocalyptic writing, of which there are many, would also have to be seen as predictions and they, like Westerns, us the same formula but don't have the same storylines.

Now as near as I can tell the whole "end times" thing started in the evangelical churches of the late 1800s, so it's kind of recent but I still see Catholics talking like there will be signs and events predicted by Revelation as warnings of the end of the universe. I don't understand how Revelation could be viewed that way given the intellectual and theological background of apocalyptic literature as I was taught.

Anybody have some insight on this ?

 

[Kevin Snow]

Wouldn't it be better to know what Revelation actually meant? Rather than what someone thinks it means? You know God is in heaven. I'm sure if you ask him in faith he will reveal it to you.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Wouldn't it be better to know what Revelation actually meant? Rather than what someone thinks it means? You know God is in heaven. I'm sure if you ask him in faith he will reveal it to you.

Nothing personal but I asked a specific question and this answer is entirely unhelpful.

Unlikely some people I don't put up a flare restricting my threads to Catholics but I asked a specific question about Catholic theology.

 

[mark kennedy]

Catholics don't put a lot of emphasis on end times theology. Understanding the Revelation isn't all that difficult, seven seals, seven trumpets and seven vials of wrath. That's pretty much the flow of the book, speculation on how that's interpreted can vary across broad lines.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The Catholic position on revelation is that some things can be in reference to now past events while other things can refer to the future. Or it can refer to both by way of typology.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Unlikely some people

Ah the ol' CF call-out-a-roo: do it without doing it. This forum has trained you well.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Ah the ol' CF call-out-a-roo: do it without doing it. This forum has trained you well.

Oh, give me a break.

I never cared if non-Catholics posted here but can be stay on subject at least ?

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

The Catholic position on revelation is that some things can be in reference to now past events while other things can refer to the future. Or it can refer to both by way of typology.

Do you have a reference on this ?

This can't possibly be right. Is the Church saying it has no clue how to interpret Revelation?

It is really the position that's predictive ?

 

[Gnarwhal]

Oh, give me a break.

I never cared if non-Catholics posted here but can be stay on subject at least ?

I was talking about you dude, calling out us for tagging our posts for Catholics only. Not the other guy.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Do you have a reference on this ?

This can't possibly be right. Is the Church saying it has no clue how to interpret Revelation?

It is really the position that's predictive ?

I don't know how you interpret what I said that way.

Do you want to know what the Church teaches about typology?

 

[Davidnic]

LWU is right, the book has an immediate historical audience and an eternal future audience. It is prophetic apocalyptic literature. It can swing both ways, and foreshadow and hint at the end times and be viewed in its historical and literary context at the same time. Catholics generally refrain from reading too much into it past Christ has died, Christ has Risen, Christ will come again. It is not that the Church does not believe it has prophecy, but rather much is shrouded in mystery.

This may help: Library : Time Is Near: Five Common Misinterpretations Of The Book Of Revelation, The

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I was talking about you dude, calling out us for tagging our posts for Catholics only. Not the other guy.

Oh ,well yeah in that case



You'd be correct

I don't understand the "Catholics only" and never have.

 

[StevenMerten]

Hello Charlie,
The Blessed Mother told child seer Str. Lucia that what is written in The Book of Revelation is going to happen soon. The Blessed Mother said especially certain chapters of Revelation, but I can not recall the specific chapters she then referred too. 60,000 people witnessed the Miracle of the Dancing Sun, believers and scoffers alike. The Church allows you to disbelieve that the Fatima messages and miracles actually happened. The Church also allows Catholics to believe that the miracles of Fatima did happen and that The Blessed Mother did say the things that the Fatima children say she said.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Oh ,well yeah in that case



You'd be correct

I don't understand the "Catholics only" and never have.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I started doing it because when I ask questions in OBOB, or want to have discussion about a Catholic matter, I'm simply not interested in non-Catholic input. It's not to be exclusive for exclusion's sake, but because when I'm looking to learn something or have a discussion amongst Catholics, I don't want things muddled.

If I want to engage non-Catholics I know where to find them.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Here's an example of Jesus Himself using typology:

"Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' The Jews then said, 'It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?' But he spoke of the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken." - Jn 2:19-22

 

[Rhamiel]

CHURCH FATHERS: On Christ and Antichrist (Hippolytus)

You can see that many of the Early Church Fathers saw this as being about the end of the world

But you are also right, it is not JUST about the end, but a kind of “type” that will repeat itself

 

[Open Heart]

This is an embarrassing question for me because I should know the answer.

What is the Catholic position on Revelation ?

I've always thought it was that it's an excellence of example of apocalyptic literature written about Christian peoples in difficult times.

The thing about this is that if this is true then Revelation is not actually describing future events. The Apocalyptic style merely uses trappings and symbols of end times as a genre into which to write a story. Much like modern Westerns which use a specific time and place that everyone understands as a framework to tell a story.

But if this is true, and to be clear here I haven't said anything isn't, then Revelation should be used solely as a morality tale and parable. It would not actually be a prediction. In fact, if it was to be seen that way then all examples of apocalyptic writing, of which there are many, would also have to be seen as predictions and they, like Westerns, us the same formula but don't have the same storylines.

Now as near as I can tell the whole "end times" thing started in the evangelical churches of the late 1800s, so it's kind of recent but I still see Catholics talking like there will be signs and events predicted by Revelation as warnings of the end of the universe. I don't understand how Revelation could be viewed that way given the intellectual and theological background of apocalyptic literature as I was taught.

Anybody have some insight on this ?

You are correct that the futuristic interpretation is extremely recent. It is only one of four possibilities and the Catholic position spreads across them.

As to the futurist position the Church has always held that the return of Christ is literal and future.

The Preterist view sees Revelation as having happened back when it was written or just after. Partial Preterism is the same except that the second coming is in the future. Therefore partial Preterism can be in line with Church teaching. It is abou the Roman Jewish war and the destruction of the temple and exile of the Jews. It depends on an early writing of the epistle. It fits quite neatly with the Church’ Traditional teaching that we are in the millennium which is the age of the Church.

The idealistic view teaches that everything in Revelation applies to all times. Thus a mountain being hit by a meteor can be ANY kingdom being punished by God. The Church also reads Revelation in this manner.

Finally we have the Historical view. It says that the various scrolls, trumpets, etc. are periods of time in history such as the Islamic conquest. This is the only view that the Church has not adopted from.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I haven't read the Book of Revelation in a while, but I know there are links between that and the Book of Daniel.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I haven't read the Book of Revelation in a while, but I know there are links between that and the Book of Daniel.

I have St. Bede's commentary on the Apocalypse and St. Jerome's commentary on the Book of Daniel.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I have St. Bede's commentary on the Apocalypse and St. Jerome's commentary on the Book of Daniel.

You recommend St. Bede to me before, and I thank you. He seems to lean more towards a spiritual / symbolic Revelation which just makes way more sense.