Infused vs. Imputed

[Athanasias]

If we are measured by our "sanctification level",that would lead back to a striving works performance Christianity.Bad.

We all mature,and grow,fine,but even that comes from the Sprit.

2 cor 3;18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, [6] are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

But,one declare innocent,is just that,for all eternity.

Heb 10;17 then he adds,
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

2 Cor 5;19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling [3] the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Trespasses means to break a written law.The law was the legal document,that was the legal measuring rod.We are declared righteous under the legal document.

Why is it you understand we cant be on trial for the same crime twice in the natural realm,but not the spiritual?

If your not judged by your sanctification then why even have sanctification?? It would be pretty pointless. Hey guess what I am imputed by Christ righteousness now and God has acquitted me now I am considered saved(even though I am not a new creature) so I can live like the devil as I do not need a sanctification level to see God after all I am dung anyway. And Yet The writer to the book of Hebrews says we need to strive for sanctification or we will not see God.

 

[Thekla]

and yet God loves them... sinner or not

(Jesus was crucified for such "dung"; it His love that gives humans value ...)

 

[IreneAdler]

that was my thought... other than the fact you can be happy and in relationship wtih Christ now and here and not wait for some other time to be with him (which is plenty of reason for me)

why do we need "reward"...??? are we mere children to need some kind of carrot dangled in front of us?

 

[psalms 91]

If your not judged by your sanctification then why even have sanctification?? It would be pretty pointless. Hey guess what I am imputed by Christ righteousness now and God has acquitted me now I am considered saved(even though I am not a new creature) so I can live like the devil as I do not need a sanctification level to see God after all I am dung anyway. And Yet The writer to the book of Hebrews says we need to strive for sanctification or we will not see God.

Being a Christian is not just saying a prayer and being saved. That is why it talks of babes, little children and sio on. It is a continual growth process and unlike many believe we have responsibilities to study and to grow. We are not saved because we are righteous not can we ever be foor it says that our righteousness is like filthy rags. It is only by the blood of Jesus that we are righteous and can boldly enter in to the holy place.

 

[Athanasias]

Well, colorful expressions aside, the one undergoing sanctification is very much a sinner until death and resurrection. In the eyes of God, even his righteous deed are like filthy rags (pus-soaked or menstrual rags) per Isaiah.

Wow! But how can that be? If a person is sanctified truly then they become holy. Or does the protestant understanding just see sanctification as a legal declaration too and not a actual thing that happens to a person?? Still how can one be regenerated and a partaker of the divine nature of Christ and in reality be dung? How can ones good actions if they are done by Christ grace be filthy? Is Christ or his grace filthy? Wouldn't they be meritorious then?

 

[psalms 91]

Wow! But how can that be? If a person is sanctified truly then they become holy. Or does the protestant understanding just see sanctification as a legal declaration too and not a actual thing that happens to a person?? Still how can one be regenerated and a partaker of the divine nature of Christ and in reality be dung? How can ones good actions if they are done by Christ grace be filthy? Is Christ or his grace filthy? Wouldn't they be meritorious then?

Seperate the flesh from the soul and the spirit and then it becomes very easy to understand.

 

[Athanasias]

Being a Christian is not just saying a prayer and being saved. That is why it talks of babes, little children and sio on. It is a continual growth process and unlike many believe we have responsibilities to study and to grow. We are not saved because we are righteous not can we ever be foor it says that our righteousness is like filthy rags. It is only by the blood of Jesus that we are righteous and can boldly enter in to the holy place.

Yeah but that doesn't answer the point of my question. whats the pointed of your sanctification at all if you have already been declared righteous by mere legal declaration and you are considered saved? Froggy said you are not judged by your sanctification? if that is the case then why is it even necessary as ultimatly we are just piules of dung anyway and not truly changed and made holy right??

 

[psalms 91]

Yeah but that doesn't answer the point of my question. whats the pointed of your sanctification at all if you have already been declared righteous by mere legal declaration and you are considered saved? Froggy said you are not judged by your sanctification? if that is the case then why is it even necessary as ultimatly we are just piules of dung anyway and not truly changed and made holy right??

Wrong there is a holy place inside each of us that is the dwelling of God in us and is put there when we become saved that part is sanctified and set apart. It is the flesh we must continually work on as the spirit shows us in order to become more and more like Christ. The flesh is what Christ crucified and it is the flesh that we must crucify. It must die so that Christ may live

 

[Athanasias]

Seperate the flesh from the soul and the spirit and then it becomes very easy to understand.

Yeah but thats just it. Christ a divine person took on a human nature to sanctify human nature and give it a sharing in the divine nature. The son of God became the son of men so that sons of men can become sons of God.

So how can you separate our personhood that way?? That is unnatural!

 

[psalms 91]

Yeah but thats just it. Christ a divine person took on a human nature to sanctify human nature and give it a sharing in the divine nature. The son of God became the son of men so that sons of men can become sons of God.

So how can you separate our personhood that way?? That is unnatural!

Very easy. God is a triune being as we are for we were made in Goids image. Christ was the last Adam and restored what the first Adam lost. It is up to us to put on Christ and kill the old man in order to partake of that victory and live in victory but it is only Christs riighteousness not ours for we are sinful flesh. Sanctification is progressive not instant.

 

[Athanasias]

Wrong there is a holy place inside each of us that is the dwelling of God in us and is put there when we become saved that part is sanctified and set apart. It is the flesh we must continually work on as the spirit shows us in order to become more and more like Christ. The flesh is what Christ crucified and it is the flesh that we must crucify. It must die so that Christ may live

So Christ grace doesn't have the power to sanctify your flesh? How can God dwell in you and you still be a worthless pile of Dung?

 

[psalms 91]

So Christ grace doesn't have the power to sanctify your flesh? How can God dwell in you and you still be a worthless pile of Dung?

Sorry, but we seem to be going round and round. There iis a holy place inside every born again believer that is set apaprt, seperate, not flesh. Think about it, when Christ went to the cross His flesh died, His soul went to hell to shed our sins that He carried and to set the captives free from paradise, and His spirit returned unto God.

 

[Thekla]

Sorry, but we seem to be going round and round. There iis a holy place inside every born again believer that is set apaprt, seperate, not flesh. Think about it, when Christ went to the cross His flesh died, His soul went to hell to shed our sins that He carried and to set the captives free from paradise, and His spirit returned unto God.

After the Resurrection, He walked the earth and even ate with the disciples; Thomas touched the wounds from the crucifixion.

He ascended to heaven in the flesh, resurrected.

 

[Athanasias]

Very easy. God is a triune being as we are for we were made in Goids image. Christ was the last Adam and restored what the first Adam lost. It is up to us to put on Christ and kill the old man in order to partake of that victory and live in victory but it is only Christs riighteousness not ours for we are sinful flesh. Sanctification is progressive not instant.

I agree that sanctification is progressive but you still don't see that Christ the new Adam united the divine with the Flesh to make the flesh holy by his grace. If that is the case then when we are baptized and put on Christ then we are transformed by his graces and made good. We are made good by Christ and his grace which changes us or regenerates us on the inside. The grace then is there in our personhood transforming us so how can we still be piles of poop when we share in the divine nature? Is Christ a pile of dung?

Your saying that Christ grace is not transformative in our entire person hood. Wow.

 

[Athanasias]

Sorry, but we seem to be going round and round. There iis a holy place inside every born again believer that is set apaprt, seperate, not flesh. Think about it, when Christ went to the cross His flesh died, His soul went to hell to shed our sins that He carried and to set the captives free from paradise, and His spirit returned unto God.

Christ whole person returned to God at his ascension. Hence he sanctified the flesh and gave grace to do it. Your separating his personhood.

 

[bugkiller]

Christ whole person returned to God at his ascension. Hence he sanctified the flesh and gave grace to do it. Your separating his personhood.

So do you know what WOF is? I notice that is psalm91's faith icon is.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

pile of dung
I thought human life was precious

Sure,but no good thing dwells in Adam.

Rom 7;18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out

read rom 3,there is an account of Adam.which included Mary!.Sorry,I had to add Mary.



Rom 3;9 What then? Are we Jews [1] any better off? [2] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

 

[Frogster]

If your not judged by your sanctification then why even have sanctification?? It would be pretty pointless. Hey guess what I am imputed by Christ righteousness now and God has acquitted me now I am considered saved(even though I am not a new creature) so I can live like the devil as I do not need a sanctification level to see God after all I am dung anyway. And Yet The writer to the book of Hebrews says we need to strive for sanctification or we will not see God.

I proved it was a legal act,did I not?
The law..

Nothing good was in Adam,(dungy one).



Rom 5;18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

 

[Frogster]

and yet God loves them... sinner or not

Sure,but we had to leave Adam,in order to be declared righteous.

Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.

Adam was not fixed,he was crucifed.

Rom 6;6 We know that our old self "( Adam)" was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

 

[Frogster]

A child can be adopted,and declared legally righteous,but still learn to walk in the Spirit,hence more of a separatedness from Adam.

Paul said he had not yet attained it yet,but wanted to walk in more resurrection power in the book of Phil.

Resurrected from who? Adam!

And then the more we will be set apart,more santified...

Takes time,as with Paul,but he was guilty ,then delclared just when he rose with Christ,as a new creation.

Rom 4;25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Sounds good to me.