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Gregory95

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Verse 37, you should know, isn't found in every translation, because it isn't found in the early Greek manuscripts.

-CryptoLutheran
 

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JacksBratt

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Not the question

speak yes or no
IMO, we are saved by grace through faith. Children are innocent by the simple fact that they are oblivious to their actions... They are saved by Grace as they are incapable of faith.
 
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Gregory95

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IMO, we are saved by grace through faith. Children are innocent by the simple fact that they are oblivious to their actions... They are saved by Grace as they are incapable of faith.

Yes saved by grace

its crazy to me why anyone would choose doctrine men created or tradition of men over Christ doctrine further more if memory serves me correctly when Christ spoke of mens tradition He did not speak well of it
 
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JacksBratt

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Yes saved by grace

its crazy to me why anyone would choose doctrine men created or tradition of men over Christ doctrine further more if memory serves me correctly when Christ spoke of mens tradition He did not speak well of it
Crazy to believe that a loving God would condemn an infant due to the actions, or inaction of the child's parents....
 
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ViaCrucis

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Crazy to believe that a loving God would condemn an infant due to the actions, or inaction of the child's parents....

How many people in this thread have said that unbaptized infants are condemned to hell?

My guess is that it's probably zero.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes saved by grace

its crazy to me why anyone would choose doctrine men created or tradition of men over Christ doctrine further more if memory serves me correctly when Christ spoke of mens tradition He did not speak well of it

So, traditions of men such as Decision Theology and denying baptism to certain people based on unbiblical reasons?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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I'm saying that God saves and, as I have already shared, that God uses more than one means to do so.

This is the problem with the legalists who insist that salvation is a formula that we have to follow, that there is an X, Y, Z procedure we must accomplish in order to achieve salvation. Because instead of being able to say that God accomplishes our salvation through His means, that God is the one who is saving us by His grace; salvation instead is treated as a specific, legalistic, and rigid formula. One must do X, Y, and Z in order to be saved rather than God Himself working His gracious work in us to accomplish His good purposes.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Gregory95

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no my friend heres what I'm saying

Biblical doctrine is above mans


Read acts 8:37 if you believe what Phillip said then you know that ONLY thing that could of stoped the Ethiopian from being baptized was if he would not profess faith

This is where my question comes in to which ive yet to get a direct response instead of the run around

if the only requirement is you must profess your faith how is it a infant who can not even comprehend the world around them how can a infant profess faith

Also read acts chapter 2 to see this again

Now if you admit it is not really baptism rather a ritual then we run into this issue

It is unbiblical as nowhere has it said to do this ritual this tradition of men in and of itself a tradition that is not condemned in the Bible in and of itself is okay

BUT

if you read the NT you see Paul say even if somthing isn't a stumbling block for you IF it causes your brother to stumble you need to stop and seeing as its just a tradition and seeing how much division it causes it would be in the best interest of the true Church as a whole if we stopped bickering over silly things and got to work seekimg truth and not our own will

Pro of the tradition

Makes parents feel good

Con of tradition causes division and stumbling block

So what fruit is produced from it

If none why be so resilient to stopping it?

So, traditions of men such as Decision Theology and denying baptism to certain people based on unbiblical reasons?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Check out post #485

Nothing in post 485 says unbaptized infants are condemned to hell.

That infants are sinners, because all are born the victims of Adam's sin--and so all of us need the grace of God--doesn't mean unbaptized infants go to hell.

I realize this probably is hard to wrap your head around, but just because infants are born sinners and in need of God's saving grace doesn't mean that unbaptized infants go to hell. Just as being an adult who isn't baptized, or being an adult who has never heard the Gospel, means one goes to hell.

You're going to have to move past this idea that salvation means doing certain things in order to attain salvation. The historic teaching of the Christian Church, rooted in the confession and proclamation of who God is and what God has done, in Jesus Christ, for us is that God is trustworthy to save.

Those people, over there, on that island who have never heard the name of Jesus? I can trust that the God who is gracious and kind cares as much for them as He does for you and I. And that He will act justly, kindly, mercifully, and graciously with them.

Salvation isn't about winning some kind of lottery by being born in the right place and right time, or by subscribing to the correct set of theological propositions, it's not about getting our t's crossed and i's dotted. It's about God sending Jesus Christ to save and reconcile a lost world of sinners to Himself.

Jesus Christ died for you. Trust this, for it is most certainly true.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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You are building your entire theology on a single verse that was absent from Scripture until the 6th or 7th century, and which is found in only a minority of manuscripts from after that time. That's why I mentioned that the verse is not found in all translations--it is a late addition to the text.

That's not a very good basis for building an entire theological system.

It's the same reason why you won't find me using Mark 16:16 in this discussion on baptism. It's also why I don't use 1 John 5:7 when arguing for the Trinity. These are recognized to generally be later additions to the text. I don't have a problem with any of these passages in what they say--but building an entire case upon them is shaky.

So building an entire case on Acts 8:37, that one must make a public profession of faith before receiving the Sacrament of Holy Baptism is, simply, a bad foundation for an argument.

I was hoping that by pointing this out initially you would understand this and try and find a better case to make.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Gregory95

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So if pointing to Scripture is not good enough what is your basis for supporting your doctrine?
 
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Gregory95

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Also if you read what i said you'll see i said acts chapter2 as well
 
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JacksBratt

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Oh Please. Post #485 is a roadmap to conversations on this thread where one poster has came right out and stated that infants that are not baptized are condemned.

I told you to look at post 485 because it's all there..

I do not believe that infant baptism does anything but make the parents and the priest happy.
 
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ViaCrucis

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So if pointing to Scripture is not good enough what is your basis for supporting your doctrine?

I don't have a problem with pointing to Scripture. Using a single verse, especially one that that isn't even in the original text, as the basis for one's theology is an issue.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Also if you read what i said you'll see i said acts chapter2 as well

Okay, where in the 2nd chapter of the Acts?

Because here's what I read in the Acts of the Apostles,

"And Peter said to them, 'Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.'" - Acts 2:38-39

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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I must have missed the "non baptized infants go to hell" statement in that post. Perhaps you could quote, exactly, what was said.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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JacksBratt

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I must have missed the "non baptized infants go to hell" statement in that post. Perhaps you could quote, exactly, what was said.

-CryptoLutheran
I think I have given enough information here. If you don't want to see it, that's fine.. Continue to believe that nobody here is saying that unbaptized infants go to hell.

Also, notice, that not one post has answered my question as to where they believe that the souls of infants go, if they are not baptized.

An answer to where they go, would answer the OP's question.

By what you are saying here... you believe that infant baptism is not a salvation issue.

If so, why all the hype? Why all the pressure?
 
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