ViaCrucis

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As many of us English-speakers have learned at one point or another, English used to make a distinction between ye, you, thee, and thou. With ye being the second person plural (formal), you the second person singular (formal); and thee the second person plural (informal) and thou the second person singular (informal). But all of these have in almost all cases having been truncated to a universal second person plural pronoun: "you". While there seems to have been more nuanced rules at play at different points of the English language, this is largely the the broad strokes of it.

While, generally, we have a good ability to grasp, from context, whether a person means "you" in the singular or "you" in the plural, there are plenty of occasions where confusion can arise. And in some places in the English speaking world, local dialectical words or expressions have arisen that help fill in those gaps. As an American, I am most familiar with examples of this in American English. In the American North East one will occasionally find the use of "youse" or "youse guys", and around Pittsburg, Pennsylvania one can even find "you-uns" or "yinz". Though the most well known American dialectical second person plural pronoun is, arguably, "y'all", a contraction for "you all". Historically limited to the American South, this word has also been spreading in use, to varying degrees, to other parts of the United States.

At this juncture, I would like to point out that while, yes, I am an American, I am not from the American South. I am from the Pacific Northwest which does not traditionally use "y'all", but it is a place where it has slowly been making limited headway.

This word has often, at least in some parts of America, often been associated with bad grammar, or sounding uneducated; perhaps through prejudice against American Southerners; but that prejudice has been disappearing and the word is gaining more traction. And I think it's easy to see why: It is, among American English speakers, rather ubiquitous, especially as the internet has brought more people into contact with others of different dialects. It serves a helpful function in language, offering a second person plural distinct from "you",, that distinction eliminates the possibility of of confusion where it could otherwise exist. And also, arguably, it's just really fun to say, it flows very smoothly off the tongue (at least, in many cases of American English).

As such, I believe and strongly defend the use of "y'all" as a perfectly legitimate second personal plural pronoun. And advocate that it should enjoy more widespread provenance. Perhaps it may never enjoy much use outside of American dialectical English; but I still maintain it is good, useful, already has widespread use among many English speakers, and serves an invaluable linguistic function. If your own English dialect already has this function, that's all well and good; but if your English dialect lacks any distinction between a first person plural pronoun and a second person plural pronoun, I encourage you to try out "y'all". It's as delectable to the linguistic palette as Southern BBQ is for the taste buds.

-CryptoLutheran
 

PloverWing

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I'm originally from the American South, where people around me did say "y'all". I purged the word from my vocabulary when I went to college in the Chicago area, because I got funny looks from the midwesterners around me. But now I'm old enough to do what I like, and I've decided that it's really useful to have a second person plural pronoun. So I've welcomed "y'all" back into my vocabulary.
 
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Halbhh

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I've used it plenty without catching myself here in the Midwest where we moved about 12 years ago, occasionally provoking a smile from church members. But it seems to me it's catching on. :)
 
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Halbhh

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"youse guys"
Yeah. :) Brings a smile -- I remember back in Austin, when my very close friend who was from Brooklyn would use "youse guys", and I recall the first couple of times I was taken aback (since I'm used to knowing all the words people use), and puzzling a moment on whether he was trying to convey some meaning or nuance in addition to simply 'y'all' -- I didn't yet know it was Northeastern for y'all.
the Pacific Northwest which does not traditionally use "y'all", but it is a place where it has slowly been making limited headway.
Same here! Church members (who heard me say y'all plenty) have I think not only gotten used to it, but some have used it, though I confess it might be a little tongue in cheek (I mean, while it's clearly tongue in cheek at times, there are other times when it didn't seem so, but might have been! ;-) But I think some used with unconsciously already...maybe...
As such, I believe and strongly defend the use of "y'all" as a perfectly legitimate second personal plural pronoun. And advocate that it should enjoy more widespread provenance. Perhaps it may never enjoy much use outside of American dialectical English; but I still maintain it is good, useful, already has widespread use among many English speakers, and serves an invaluable linguistic function. If your own English dialect already has this function, that's all well and good; but if your English dialect lacks any distinction between a first person plural pronoun and a second person plural pronoun, I encourage you to try out "y'all". It's as delectable to the linguistic palette as Southern BBQ is for the taste buds.
Y'all's takin' over like a good BBQ sauce, youse guys. :D
 
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Freth

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I live in Ohio where there is a mixture of y'all and you. I grew up using you instead of y'all, so it just sounds foreign to me, even though I would call my particular dialect somewhat southern. And "youse" or "you-uns" is not used in Ohio whatsoever.

Just like people in Ohio call soft drinks "pop" and people in other states call it "soda".

I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way. Language is a big part of regional culture. It makes conversation enjoyable; the more inflection the better. When I'm around friends and family I use more slang and shortened words. It enriches the experience a lot, and language even becomes tradition.
 
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Occams Barber

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As many of us English-speakers have learned at one point or another, English used to make a distinction between ye, you, thee, and thou. With ye being the second person plural (formal), you the second person singular (formal); and thee the second person plural (informal) and thou the second person singular (informal). But all of these have in almost all cases having been truncated to a universal second person plural pronoun: "you". While there seems to have been more nuanced rules at play at different points of the English language, this is largely the the broad strokes of it.

While, generally, we have a good ability to grasp, from context, whether a person means "you" in the singular or "you" in the plural, there are plenty of occasions where confusion can arise. And in some places in the English speaking world, local dialectical words or expressions have arisen that help fill in those gaps. As an American, I am most familiar with examples of this in American English. In the American North East one will occasionally find the use of "youse" or "youse guys", and around Pittsburg, Pennsylvania one can even find "you-uns" or "yinz". Though the most well known American dialectical second person plural pronoun is, arguably, "y'all", a contraction for "you all". Historically limited to the American South, this word has also been spreading in use, to varying degrees, to other parts of the United States.

At this juncture, I would like to point out that while, yes, I am an American, I am not from the American South. I am from the Pacific Northwest which does not traditionally use "y'all", but it is a place where it has slowly been making limited headway.

This word has often, at least in some parts of America, often been associated with bad grammar, or sounding uneducated; perhaps through prejudice against American Southerners; but that prejudice has been disappearing and the word is gaining more traction. And I think it's easy to see why: It is, among American English speakers, rather ubiquitous, especially as the internet has brought more people into contact with others of different dialects. It serves a helpful function in language, offering a second person plural distinct from "you",, that distinction eliminates the possibility of of confusion where it could otherwise exist. And also, arguably, it's just really fun to say, it flows very smoothly off the tongue (at least, in many cases of American English).

As such, I believe and strongly defend the use of "y'all" as a perfectly legitimate second personal plural pronoun. And advocate that it should enjoy more widespread provenance. Perhaps it may never enjoy much use outside of American dialectical English; but I still maintain it is good, useful, already has widespread use among many English speakers, and serves an invaluable linguistic function. If your own English dialect already has this function, that's all well and good; but if your English dialect lacks any distinction between a first person plural pronoun and a second person plural pronoun, I encourage you to try out "y'all". It's as delectable to the linguistic palette as Southern BBQ is for the taste buds.

-CryptoLutheran


The absence of a plural form of 'you' is one of the Great Failings of Modern English. Even worse, given the past usage of 'ye', 'thou and 'thee', it seems English has actually gone backwards over time. Modern 'you' has lost the ability to differentiate between singular and plural or formal from informal. Like other versions of English, Australian English got around the 'you-plural' problem by informally inventing its own versions - 'yous & 'yez' - typically in Australian bogan speech. (a 'bogan' is a 'yobbo' :grinning:)

As an etymological amateur I have long been aware of the (mainly) Southern US solution to you-plurality by using 'you-all' or its cousin 'y'all' in informal usage.

However... as an ardent listener to spoken English (in this case American TV and movie speech) I suspect that 'y'all'/'you all' is', in some US dialects, losing its unique status as a plural form of 'you' and is actually replacing singular 'you'.

As it turns out a couple of Dictionaries also agree with me:

There is significant debate about whether y’all can ever be strictly singular (without implying a larger group, association, or network). Such examples are uncommon and judged as ungrammatical by many speakers who otherwise freely use y’all themselves. In the rare instance of singular y’all, it is best understood as a pragmatic choice to communicate friendly solidarity, or to express group membership as a speaker of Southern American English.
: YOUusually used in addressing two or more person

What appears to be happening is the wholesale replacement of 'you' by 'y'all' in informal (Southern US) speech. This means that 'y'all' is becoming both the singular and plural version of 'you'.

OB
 
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Chesterton

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"Ya'll" has always been a common sense-based contraction, the same as any other legitimate contraction. It ain't in need of defense. To assert that it does is racist and elitist. Just say no to affirmative action.

"Ain't" on the other hand, does need defending.
 
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Ya'll is a perfectly fine word, very handy to have and use. I am very pro-y'all, and it has been a resident of my vocabulary since around the age of 8, when my father married a nice young lady from Louisiana, and I picked it up via exposure to her relatives, who were all y'all (hehe..."all you all") users.
 
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USincognito

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I'm a Georgia native. I still say y'all.

I also like Shakespeare. Forsooth, methinks 'tis no fault to speak thusly. :oldthumbsup:
As @dzheremi noted, while y'all does function as both singular and plural, "all y'all" is a plural form used is serious situations.

"All y'all better stop or the po-po's gonna come take y'all to the hoosegow."
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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I live in Ohio where there is a mixture of y'all and you. I grew up using you instead of y'all, so it just sounds foreign to me, even though I would call my particular dialect somewhat southern. And "youse" or "you-uns" is not used in Ohio whatsoever.

Just like people in Ohio call soft drinks "pop" and people in other states call it "soda".

I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way. Language is a big part of regional culture. It makes conversation enjoyable; the more inflection the better. When I'm around friends and family I use more slang and shortened words. It enriches the experience a lot, and language even becomes tradition.
I'm originally from Cincinnati, so it is an odd mix of regional dialects. Midwestern but with southern influences, but for those of us of a "certain age", there are still a lot of German expressions. For example, if you don't understand what someone says, a Cincinnatian will say, "Please?", reflecting the German use of "Bitte".
 
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public hermit

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As many of us English-speakers have learned at one point or another, English used to make a distinction between ye, you, thee, and thou. With ye being the second person plural (formal), you the second person singular (formal); and thee the second person plural (informal) and thou the second person singular (informal). But all of these have in almost all cases having been truncated to a universal second person plural pronoun: "you". While there seems to have been more nuanced rules at play at different points of the English language, this is largely the the broad strokes of it.

While, generally, we have a good ability to grasp, from context, whether a person means "you" in the singular or "you" in the plural, there are plenty of occasions where confusion can arise. And in some places in the English speaking world, local dialectical words or expressions have arisen that help fill in those gaps. As an American, I am most familiar with examples of this in American English. In the American North East one will occasionally find the use of "youse" or "youse guys", and around Pittsburg, Pennsylvania one can even find "you-uns" or "yinz". Though the most well known American dialectical second person plural pronoun is, arguably, "y'all", a contraction for "you all". Historically limited to the American South, this word has also been spreading in use, to varying degrees, to other parts of the United States.

At this juncture, I would like to point out that while, yes, I am an American, I am not from the American South. I am from the Pacific Northwest which does not traditionally use "y'all", but it is a place where it has slowly been making limited headway.

This word has often, at least in some parts of America, often been associated with bad grammar, or sounding uneducated; perhaps through prejudice against American Southerners; but that prejudice has been disappearing and the word is gaining more traction. And I think it's easy to see why: It is, among American English speakers, rather ubiquitous, especially as the internet has brought more people into contact with others of different dialects. It serves a helpful function in language, offering a second person plural distinct from "you",, that distinction eliminates the possibility of of confusion where it could otherwise exist. And also, arguably, it's just really fun to say, it flows very smoothly off the tongue (at least, in many cases of American English).

As such, I believe and strongly defend the use of "y'all" as a perfectly legitimate second personal plural pronoun. And advocate that it should enjoy more widespread provenance. Perhaps it may never enjoy much use outside of American dialectical English; but I still maintain it is good, useful, already has widespread use among many English speakers, and serves an invaluable linguistic function. If your own English dialect already has this function, that's all well and good; but if your English dialect lacks any distinction between a first person plural pronoun and a second person plural pronoun, I encourage you to try out "y'all". It's as delectable to the linguistic palette as Southern BBQ is for the taste buds.

-CryptoLutheran

I agree. I grew up saying it and haven't felt compelled to stop. I'll even go so far as to say, "I'm with all y'all," which is redundant but emphatic, nonetheless.

As a side note: Lacking a second person plural "you" can be detrimental to translating the scriptures into English. People walk away thinking something is referring to "you" as an individual when it is actually referring to "y'all" as a community. So, sometimes it's advantageous to translate a text into East Texan to make the point. Lol
 
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Halbhh

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I agree. I grew up saying it and haven't felt compelled to stop. I'll even go so far as to say, "I'm with all y'all," which is redundant but emphatic, nonetheless.

As a side note: Lacking a second person plural "you" can be detrimental to translating the scriptures into English. People walk away thinking something is referring to "you" as an individual when it is actually referring to "y'all" as a community. So, sometimes it's advantageous to translate a text into East Texan to make the point. Lol
I love "all y'all". Usually said with an extra half second of length in each syllable, and extra drawl. :D I don't know, but maybe the South has that down the best really, that extra flavor, cause of so much practice.
 
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Halbhh

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More about y'all for all y'all that are interested. And more than that too...

Word nerd stuff in first video, and then a fun video of Southernisms that made me laugh.

A Southern view, word nerd:
(there's a history re 19th century beginning about 35 seconds in)
(then, unless you want a spelling lesson on y'all, move time to about 1:24 in the video)
(to go to 'all y'all' go to 2:20 time):

Southerners having fun making fun dead panning some commonplace Southern expressions (they are acting, and there are 3 flavors I noticed: they are conveying Southernism, and it's a bit tongue in cheek at times (self depreciating even perhaps), even while it's not also and it's also about validating the dialect, and that mix of meanings also is pretty Southern, to be serious and joking at the same time, winking and daring you to be an a___h____, but they are laughing inside, and it comes out later around a drink or such):
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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More about y'all for all y'all that are interested. And more than that too...

Word nerd stuff in first video, and then a fun video of Southernisms that made me laugh.


Southerners having fun making fun dead panning some commonplace Southern expressions (they are acting, and there are 3 flavors I noticed: they are conveying Southernism, and it's a bit tongue in cheek at times (self depreciating even perhaps), even while it's not also and it's also about validating the dialect, and that mix of meanings also is pretty Southern, to be serious and joking at the same time, winking and daring you to be an a___h____, but they are laughing inside, and it comes out later around a drink or such):
Love $*&# Southern Women Say. "They got "X" for sale up at the Wal-Mart".

But my single favorite Southernism is "They live so far out in the sticks that even the Presbyterians handle snakes".
 
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As such, I believe and strongly defend the use of "y'all" as a perfectly legitimate second personal plural pronoun.

Folks usin' y'all prob'ly ain't carin' a'tall 'bout "personal plural pronoun" stuff... just sayin'
 
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dzheremi

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Folks usin' y'all prob'ly ain't carin' a'tall 'bout "personal plural pronoun" stuff... just sayin'

Well, you know what they say: pronouns don't care about your feelings. :tongueout:
 
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He/she/they don't care about your feelings? Say it isn't so!

I was actually talking about the prevalence of the apostrophe, which appears whenever unwritten language is written down. The French must've been the first lazy-writers... ever.
 
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