impeachment process for Bush and Cheney started

[BlessEwe]

I didn't say I knew what God wants.

However, Bibically speaking it is known that God knows everything that was, is and will be. God has a plan for each person and country. With that knowledge it is simple to surmise that if God knows and has a Divine plan that we are where we need to be in this.

Right, I agree with you there. And will add that God does give man free will and many times we do the wrong things with that. I am also sure God has cried over the horrible things men do to one another and His beautiful creatures.

 

[jad123]

Right, I agree with you there. And will add that God does give man free will and many times we do the wrong things with that. I am also sure God has cried over the horrible things men do to one another and His beautiful creatures.

I agree, I am sure that God cried over the atrocities committed by Sadamm.

 

[KarrieTex]

Right, I agree with you there. And will add that God does give man free will and many times we do the wrong things with that. I am also sure God has cried over the horrible things men do to one another and His beautiful creatures.

Of course He does.

But you know He knew before Bush came in that he would win the election, 9-11 was going to happen (By the way, even though God allowed that to happen, look at how many were not killed because of the election that day, running late, making it out in time and so forth), and He knew we were going into Iraq.

If God did not want the US to be there for whatever His reason is, He would have stopped it.

 

[BlessEwe]

I agree, I am sure that God cried over the atrocities committed by Sadamm.

I have seen these types of quotes since the beginning of this war, and does get very old fast.
If Bush was in every area of the world defending the helpless and those being slaughtered by the leaders that don't have oil I would go for that one. But sorry doesn't work for me......

Edited to add that I do feel God is crying over ALL who suffer.......

 

[KarrieTex]

I have seen these types of quotes since the beginning of this war, and does get very old fast.
If Bush was in every area of the world defending the helpless and those being slaughtered by the leaders that don't have oil I would go for that one. But sorry doesn't work for me......

And I am SICK of this arguement. Absolutely sick of it.

We have not touched that oil. In some aspect we should though, it would offset the cost of this whole affair.

 

[spinningtutu]

As I've read over this thread, one thing really disturbs/bothers me more than anything else...

*NOT the fact that some people uphold that Bush's election was valid. Whether we like it or not, whether we voted for him or not, the country did, using its own system, elect him fairly... twice. There may be a problem with the system, there may be a problem with the majority of voters... but there's no use whining over the elections of '00/'04 respectively.

*NOT the fact that some are now entirely opposed to Bush/Cheney. That IS understandable. There is a LOT of evidence to suggest that they have been criminally negligent in protecting the country and criminally active in relation towards other countries. The issue isn't just whether or not you support war - or specifically one against Iraq - the issue is whether or not our leaders should have so much power over us and the rest of the world. Although I think they've done a good job brainwashing people, I believe that if the truth came out, conservatives, Christians and Republicans (for the most part) would no longer support them. That being said, it must be dealt with in its own right. Impeachment is not going to happen at this point, get over it. When they leave office, bring them up on criminal charges.

*NOT the fact that some stand in support of the Iraq war. I was opposed to it from the beginning, but now is not the time to do what should have been done in the first place. The answer is emphatically not to just pull out and leave everything a mess. The answer, at this point, is not so much ending the war as it is a better management to the war.

*NOT the fact that people oppose flamingly liberal candidates for the future. Let's be honest... Gore was a horrible choice for president, so was Kerry. Sometimes the "better of two evils" is hard to discern and in any case, we have to remember that either choice is... evil. Although I'm very enthused about the idea of female president - and think it to be long overdue - I honestly don't want that person to be Hillary Clinton. The tired old liberal-Democrat option isn't fixing the nation's problems any better than the old conservative-Republican option is. Until we get out of the whole Bush-Clinton cycle that we've been in since the 80's, we aren't going to get anywhere. We need a truly fresh direction that is NOT a continuation of either.

Now that I've stated what I'm NOT deeply disturbed/bothered by... let me state what I am...

*I am bothered by the fact that this dialog has been mainly between Christians yet there seems to be a lack of unity that that should otherwise entail. We have Christians here from all over the world which should be an awesome chance for different/fresh perspectives. I should care what a Christian from Africa has to say because they are a Christian... I should care what a Christian from Europe has to say because they are a Christian... I should care what a Christian from Asia has to say because they are a Christian... so on, so forth... and then, in that context, I can earn the right to share my perspective as an American. The biggest problem I have with all of this is NOT the presence of Christian fundamentalism but the presence of American fundamentalism.

American fundamentalism is its own thing and is highly encouraged here, even sometimes trying to slip in through the guise of Christian fundamentalism -- but the former must always exclude the latter. I don't need reminders that my country or my government -- or for that matter that of anyone else's is corrupt -- they are built by fallen people, what else do you expect? Did we forget that God didn't even want us to form human governments? Did we forget that even David who began as a gentle shepherd boy ended up corrupt by his own power? Did we forget that it was always God who fought for Israel, having them sing and dance around Jericho, choosing people who could never be "warriors" by human standards? In our attempt to do what our country asks of us, a country built on the ideals of Rome, did we forget that Rome crucified Christ?

We're not even being the Christ to each other -- how are we going to be Christ to a fallen world that is dying?

 

[Suomipoika]

It is really not ok to attack, but I am sure you have much to add in a kind way to the conversation here. God Bless

Oh, perhaps I do. Perhaps I do. But why do you think I care? Why do you think I give a dang about what you guys in America think about my opinions? Why should I care what people outside the frontiers of Finland think? Sweden, Norway, Russia, Estonia? Shees, give me a break. Don't I have more important things to use my brain cells on...

 

[jad123]

I have seen these types of quotes since the beginning of this war, and does get very old fast.
If Bush was in every area of the world defending the helpless and those being slaughtered by the leaders that don't have oil I would go for that one. But sorry doesn't work for me......

Edited to add that I do feel God is crying over ALL who suffer.......

Probably does not get as old and listening to the oil oil oil crud.

 

[KarrieTex]

Probably does not get as old and listening to the oil oil oil crud.

Shouldn't that be crude?

 

[spinningtutu]

...And no one read my post

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

The oil argument is weak. Had that been an objective, a commercial deal would have been done.

But do not overlook the fact that Hussein was starting to price oil contracts in Euros, not USD. The implications of that are more far reaching for the US economy.

 

[cookiebaker]

Gore did win, more Americans voted for him. Political maneuvering and a court decision gave Bush the presidency (look up how Hitler got power with out popular support).

....I know, i'ts hard to accept. (and the second time??) I know, we should have done a 'do-over' amd endless recounts, AGAIN, right??

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

Does the Patriot Act need to have directly effected me for me to know it's a bad thing? The fact that they have done questionable things in the name of security demonstrates to me that they could easily do more...and evenutally reach the point where it effects mer personally.

You may not even know that the act has affected you.

Do you know, for example, how many of your 'phone calls or emails have been intercepted?

 

[InHisSpirit]

axigoth:,

I read your post. Point well made!!! God bless.

 

[Suomipoika]

One thing I've noticed here.. I think you guys should all have 'indy' as your political icon here, or then just give no preference. That way you could not create a picture in your mind of the person you are writing to as a "liberal" or as a "conservative". You would listen to what the person actually has to say if you didn't see his/her political preference. It just seems to me that the American 2-party system gives rise to such a partisanism and antagonism, proved here by the continuous "libs" generalization. You just seem to have this "liberal - conservative" war going on all the time. I'm on a Christian forum in my country and there are no political party icons used there. Well, most conservative/evangelical Christians endorse the Christian Democrat party (the 'conservative' one here) here, anyway. Check out http://www.kristillisdemokraatit.fi/kd/frame.php if you want, then press "in English".

 

[Touma]

Not a well known fact in the USA, but if GW Bush, D Rumsfeld, Cheney ever enter Europe they would be instantly arrested for war crimes.

Well, I believe GWB was in albania a few weeks back, he wasn't arrested then. It'd have to be after his reign of terror ends in 2009.

He lied about the reasons for attacking Iraq.
He started a war against a nation which presented no threat, illegal under International laws drafted by the US itself.
He deposed by force the leader of another nation, also illegal under international law.

Right on the spot Don't forget illegal wire taps, allowing his Gonzales to fire attorneys illegally, eroding our constitutional rights, plus so many more countless things he has done.

The libs never stop. What has Bush done that is impeachable unless protecting our country from another terrorist attack. How quick we all forget that there has NOT BEEN ONE attack on the US since 9/11.

Is it all about safety? We get attacked once, and less than 3000 people die. We start a war which has reduced a nation's population to (some accounts say) 50,000, when it had million before the war. That war has lead to global instability, a rise in terrorist attacks, empowered Iran, and terrorist organizations, and has lead to a deficit unlike the US has ever seen. Tell me, which is worse, losing 3000 one day, 6 years ago, or losing over 100,000 civilians in Iraq, 3000+ military service men, billions of dollars, and global security?

One more thing for our tax money to be wasted on!
People must really hate President Bush to want to deny him his last "lame duck" year in office.
I'm no "Bush is always right" guy, but the libs really annoy me with such crap.

A lame duck that continues to veto any progressive measure congress passes. And wasting tax money? Perhaps, you should look at the tax money wasted on the military. Or tax money wasted during clinton's impeachment? or tax money wasted on so much other crap.

YAWNNNNNN and boring

A few others have started it and it only goes so far. It won't happen and it's a waste of time.

The man hasn't done anything that is impeachable.

Besides all that has been listed. Take all that away, and the man is a saint. =rolls eyes=

do you really think we care? personally, i could care less what those across the pond think of what we do.

Which is why we are found with no support around the world. He is a lesson in history, those with out allies fall quickly. The less friends you have, the more potential enemies there are. We are the big bully on the play ground, stomping on people. We were once part of a great group, but we isolated ourselves, out of lust for power, greediness of wealth, and this "I don't care" arrogant stand which many people take. It is because of this attitude, and not terrorism or communism or any other ism, that America will fall, and fall hard.

 

[jad123]

Is it all about safety? We get attacked once, and less than 3000 people die. We start a war which has reduced a nation's population to (some accounts say) 50,000, when it had million before the war. That war has lead to global instability, a rise in terrorist attacks, empowered Iran, and terrorist organizations, and has lead to a deficit unlike the US has ever seen. Tell me, which is worse, losing 3000 one day, 6 years ago, or losing over 100,000 civilians in Iraq, 3000+ military service men, billions of dollars, and global security.

First off, spend some time in looking at history. 9/11 was but one attack on US interest. As for your question about which is worse. Neither scenario is any better then the other. But the fact remains 9/11 was a terrorist attack and one that I will not shrug off as simply 3000 one day, 6 years ago. As for Iraq, harboring and supporting terrorist is but one reason we went over there.

 

[KarrieTex]

Well, I believe GWB was in albania a few weeks back, he wasn't arrested then. It'd have to be after his reign of terror ends in 2009.



Right on the spot Don't forget illegal wire taps, allowing his Gonzales to fire attorneys illegally, eroding our constitutional rights, plus so many more countless things he has done.



Is it all about safety? We get attacked once, and less than 3000 people die. We start a war which has reduced a nation's population to (some accounts say) 50,000, when it had million before the war. That war has lead to global instability, a rise in terrorist attacks, empowered Iran, and terrorist organizations, and has lead to a deficit unlike the US has ever seen. Tell me, which is worse, losing 3000 one day, 6 years ago, or losing over 100,000 civilians in Iraq, 3000+ military service men, billions of dollars, and global security?



A lame duck that continues to veto any progressive measure congress passes. And wasting tax money? Perhaps, you should look at the tax money wasted on the military. Or tax money wasted during clinton's impeachment? or tax money wasted on so much other crap.



Besides all that has been listed. Take all that away, and the man is a saint. =rolls eyes=




Which is why we are found with no support around the world. He is a lesson in history, those with out allies fall quickly. The less friends you have, the more potential enemies there are. We are the big bully on the play ground, stomping on people. We were once part of a great group, but we isolated ourselves, out of lust for power, greediness of wealth, and this "I don't care" arrogant stand which many people take. It is because of this attitude, and not terrorism or communism or any other ism, that America will fall, and fall hard.

looking for that rolling eyes icon

also pulling out my waders...it's getting deep

 

[Touma]

First off, spend some time in looking at history. 9/11 was but one attack on US interest. As for your question about which is worse. Neither scenario is any better then the other. But the fact remains 9/11 was a terrorist attack and one that I will not shrug off as simply 3000 one day, 6 years ago. As for Iraq, harboring and supporting terrorist is but one reason we went over there.

Which has been proven time and time again that there were no terrorist threats in Iraq, before we invaded. Saddam was a secularist muslim that hated the extremists.

As for US interest, since when does the interest of a nation over take human life? I see every saying how human life is precious, but because of the US' "interests" millions have died world wide. From argentina, to afghanistan, Cuba to Iraq, supporting terrorist regimes such as uzbekistan, pakistan, saudi arabia, and turkey, funding rightist dictators, the US is the leader in death. God will punish this country justly for the violence, hate, bigotry, idolatry, and most importantly, the use of His WORD, His SACRIFICE, and His KINGDOM, to justify those things listed above.

looking for that rolling eyes icon

also pulling out my waders...it's getting deep

You also my want to buy some shampoo to help that sand out of your hair, since you seem to keep your head in the sand. How any one can justify any US politician, especially one that says he is christian, and then goes against the basics of christ's message, i will never understand.

 

[KarrieTex]

Which has been proven time and time again that there were no terrorist threats in Iraq, before we invaded. Saddam was a secularist muslim that hated the extremists.

As for US interest, since when does the interest of a nation over take human life? I see every saying how human life is precious, but because of the US' "interests" millions have died world wide. From argentina, to afghanistan, Cuba to Iraq, supporting terrorist regimes such as uzbekistan, pakistan, saudi arabia, and turkey, funding rightist dictators, the US is the leader in death. God will punish this country justly for the violence, hate, bigotry, idolatry, and most importantly, the use of His WORD, His SACRIFICE, and His KINGDOM, to justify those things listed above.




You also my want to buy some shampoo to help that sand out of your hair, since you seem to keep your head in the sand. How any one can justify any US politician, especially one that says he is christian, and then goes against the basics of christ's message, i will never understand.

whatever