Immediately after death

[Aaron112]

I'm just asking because I'm not sure where in the bible's history would the idea of reincarnation come from, to the israelites. I've read the bible and there is simply no mention of it

There's thousands of such things, if not millions or even billions ?
Not in the Bible, not from God, not from Jesus, not truth, not good, things attempting to destroy people's souls.

 

[friend of]

There's thousands of such things, if not millions or even billions ?
Not in the Bible, not from God, not from Jesus, not truth, not good, things attempting to destroy people's souls.

And i'm just saying, how could the idea of reincarnation come to be accepted by the Israelites ? woudln't God have ensured they not take up such an idea? Because it's nowhere in the OT

 

[Aaron112]

And i'm just saying, how could the idea of reincarnation come to be accepted by the Israelites ? woudln't God have ensured they not take up such an idea? Because it's nowhere in the OT

That indeed might be a good question, but realize that "God's People Perish.." TODAY "for lack of knowledge". God's People TODAY carry many false teachings, many false interpretations of both prophesy and of His Word, all over the world and in the usa.

Why does God permit this ? It is nowhere in the Bible , nowhere in Torah, nowhere in the Tanakh, no where in the New Testament. But the whole world and many Christians also are tricked.

 

[Aaron112]

Could you please expand on "things", sorry I am a little slow.

See in the post, in the quote you posted, after the question mark.

Or in other words: Things of the world. Of the flesh.

 

[d taylor]

I believe God's Spirit revealed something to me just now, about where people go after they die. There are verses that say we go to Abraham's bosom or some other waiting place (like Sheol) as we await resurrection, but I believe that was the old order of things, before Christ resurrected.

Jesus was the FIRST person to resurrect after experiencing death. That is why the devil thought he had Jesus beat. Resurrection from the dead had NEVER been seen before by all the hosts of heaven. This is why Christ's resurrection is such an incredible victory! Jesus defied reality! All the hosts of heaven held their breath and Jesus, as the first fruits of the resurrection has nullified death for those who believe!

All the devil can do is huff and puff and kill, steal and destroy, but it doesn't matter! Because death is no more! He thought that having the power of death would win him the contest with God, but he failed!

Thus I believe Paul when he says "to be absent the body is to be present with the Lord" When we die is the judgement, immediately. What do you think?

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When a believer dies they are present in heaven with God. Judgment for the believer is judgment for rewards and not to see if they are a believer. The believer faces the judgment seat of The Messiah or The Bema seat judgment.

 

[d taylor]

How do you see these verses then?

1 Thessalonians 4:13-15

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [a]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [b]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [c]asleep.

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That believers will be reunited again with their spirit and a new, resurrected body.

 

[d taylor]

Can you help with what scripture supports this?

Well i have stated a few point in that post which one are you asking about.
1. When a believer dies they are present in heaven with God
2. Judgment for the believer is judgment for rewards and not to see if they are a believer
3. The believer faces the judgment seat of The Messiah or The Bema seat judgment.

 

[d taylor]

Questioning 1.
2 and 3 agreed!

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For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

 

[timothyu]

Why don't you let Him in now?

 

[John Helpher]

When we die is the judgement, immediately. What do you think?

There are a variety of answers in the Bible, which essentially means it's not a legalistic thing. God can judge people whenever he wants. But, the two most common judgments are at the return of Jesus when he raises all the dead in his name and gives all his followers new bodies, and a second judgment slated for roughly a thousand years later, when all those people who were not resurrected by Christ at his return will be resurrected and judged.

For the thief on the cross he said, "Today you will be with me in paradise". Moses and Elijah were seen speaking with Jesus, having heavenly bodies. The record indicates Saul found a person who was able to conjure the spirit of Samuel for counsel and based on the response from the summoned spirit, it really was Samuel. However, the Revelation talks about the souls of the saints under the altar crying out for speedy justice and being told to wait just a little longer. Being under the altar tends to evoke grave-like imagery where these dead people are still waiting for resurrection to new life.

It's probably based on how much God wants to be around you. If you're a faithful person he'll probably resurrect you right away, because it is enjoyable being around faithful people. If you're not, he may choose to keep you in the ground a little longer before dredging you up for a final judgment.

 

[Lost4words]

When we die is the judgement, immediately. What do you think?

I will text you and let you know!

 

[friend of]

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When a believer dies they are present in heaven with God. Judgment for the believer is judgment for rewards and not to see if they are a believer. The believer faces the judgment seat of The Messiah or The Bema seat judgment.

What do you make of Matthew 12:36
For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

 

[d taylor]

What do you make of Matthew 12:36
For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

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Matthew 12:36,37 is in the context of The nation of Israel's rejection of Jesus as The promised Messiah in Matthew 12.

But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

The Lord spoke of future judgment in Matt 12:37, probably both the Bema and Great White Throne Judgment, saying that when believers and unbelievers are judged according to our works, our words will play a prominent role in our degree of reward (believer) or degree of torment (unbeliever). God Himself, according to the Lord Jesus, was justified or vindicated by the tax collectors (Luke 7:29). A lawyer who came to Jesus sought to justify or vindicate himself by asking, “And who is my neighbor?” (Luke 10:29). Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, saying, “You are those who seek to justify [or vindicate] yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts” (Luke 16:15).

 

[CoreyD]

I am not trying to put anyone on the spot, if I have please forgive me. I know everyone has their POV on this topic and I used to point to 5:8 myself. I will just leave this blog below also, it offers some good information.

It does offer some really good information. Which is why I read it in its entirety, and want to dissect it with you, if you don't mind.

The Shocking Truth About II Corinthians 5:8 - Becoming Christians

What does being absent from the body and present with the Lord really mean? Does it prove that we will immediately go to heaven when we die? Or, we are missing the whole point of Paul's statement? Discover the surprising truth today!

becomingchristians.com

Most Christians believe that after a righteous person dies, he/she will go to heaven. One of the bible verses they use is II Corinthians 5:8.

However, if most Christians today are correct in their teaching that righteous people go to heaven, then they will surely go against what Yahshua the Messiah or popularly known as Jesus Christ taught.

Here’s what He clearly said in John 3:13:

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.​

Now that’s one verse that goes flying right in the face of Christians who believe that they will go to heaven when they die!

A scripture that cannot be refuted.
@Wings like Eagles, have you ever heard anyone try to get around that text?

I'll like to add a few other scriptures, which some have tried to either get around, or ignore.
Actually, I'm glad I touched on this, because I missed a response to my post with those scriptures, and I see the same scripture 2 Corinthians 5:8, is presented. So, you might be interested.

So, we have a situation here:

Jesus said no one has ascended to heaven.

Most Christians say they will go to heaven.

Who is lying?

Who is telling the truth?

Who are we to believe?

Christians believe Jesus, of course. The only persons who don't believe Jesus are unbelievers, and those who are as Paul described - counterfeit Christians. 2 Corinthians 11:13

To make things even clearer, Jesus talked more about death in John 5:28-29:

“Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.”

Where are those people who will hear the voice of the Messiah?

Did Jesus say heaven? It says, “graves!”

Now, perhaps, you will think the wicked are the only ones who are in the grave. But we read that BOTH the wicked and the righteous are in their graves waiting for the resurrection. Some to the resurrection of life and some to the resurrection of condemnation.

Another truth of Jesus, which is undeniable.
Jesus resurrected Lazarus from the grave. Lazarus was not in heaven, but four days in the grave, on earth.

We read in Acts 2:29, 34:

29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day… For David did not ascend into the heavens.”

We know that David is known to be a friend of God. If there’s anyone who will go to heaven, it should be David. However, we read here that he didn’t ascend to heaven.

This is a good one. Peter and the apostles were certainly aware of where the dead were.
They knew the truth, and believed Jesus, and the scriptures. They were genuine Christians.

We also read in Revelation 5:10

10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

We shall reign where? In heaven? No, on the earth!

This one has proved to be tricky for persons. This is where understanding the true message, of the Bible is pertinent to understanding this verse correctly.
So, perhaps I can ask a questions, for which I require only scriptural answers.

Hopefully you already agree that it is God's kingdom that rules.
Where is God's kingdom? Scriptures only.

 

[friend of]

Another truth of Jesus, which is undeniable.
Jesus resurrected Lazarus from the grave. Lazarus was not in heaven, but four days in the grave, on earth

Yes but this was BEFORE Christ rose again, taking the waiting dead with Him.

 

[timothyu]

The essence of the risen is often not thought of as they often assume new life equates to old.. I guess people expect to be among a huge group of naked followers.

 

[dwb001]

Yes but this was BEFORE Christ rose again, taking the waiting dead with Him.

I don't see where that makes a difference. This was a teaching of Jesus and you want to set it aside?

 

[friend of]

I don't see where that makes a difference. This was a teaching of Jesus and you want to set it aside?

No. Lazarus was in the grave in soul sleep like everyone else. Then, Jesus resurrected, being the first to ressurect, and He took those who were in the grave in soul sleep, with Him.

 

[dwb001]

No. Lazarus was in the grave in soul sleep like everyone else. Then, Jesus resurrected, being the first to ressurect, and He took those who were in the grave in soul sleep, with Him.

Different Lazarus

 

[The Liturgist]

I will text you and let you know!

I love you @Lost4words ! Good doggy!