Actually (jumping in here) i have had RCs tell me strongly that they do. Meaning that by the grace of God they merit eternal life, which statements of Trent do may it sound like.
It is true that Catholics believe many things. I was speaking of what the Church teaches. That's what's important. If the Church taught that you're saved by works, then it's a different animal.
Regarding those who cooperated with grace, Trent concludes that,
"If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema." (Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 32.)
Shortened this teaches, "If anyone says that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God does not truly merit eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself, let him be anathema."
That does not say you are justified by the works without God's grace having anything to do with it. That's the point. We are saved by God's grace, we have faith because of that grace, and our response is to do good works.
And unless the RC is know enough to understand that the only way this can possibly be said is that "merit' does not mean one actually earns eternal life by his works and holiness, but that God rewards God-given faith (Heb. 10:35) in recognition of the works which He is really the author of, who "worketh in you [born again believers] both to will and to do of his good pleasure, (Philippians 2:13) then they will believe they God will accept them into Heaven because they are basically pretty good. Which from my experience, is just what most Caths and mainline Prot people say.
It is the responsibility of the faithful to know what their Church teaches.
If they know a little more, then they may be like this Catholic Answers poster:
I feel when my numbers up I will appoach a large table and St.Peter will be there with an enormous scale of justice by his side. We will see our life in a movie...the things that we did for the benefit of others will be for the plus side of the scale..the other stuff,,not so good will..well, be on the negative side..and so its a very interesting job Pete has. .... ”
http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4098202&postcount=2
And if they know their faith they will know that God judges each of us when we die. In my view, he will ask me why, during my lifetime, 20,000 children died of malnutrition, while I was 40 lbs over weight, why I didn't help them. There is an accounting. God gave us grace, as the Master gave his servants talents, and judges us by what we did with His gifts.
Nor do the
so-called Jehovah's Witnesses, but in both cases it is presumed that the leadership possesses a degree of ensured veracity so that the Bible only assuredly means what they say, though she and her devotees reduce Scripture to being an abused servant compelled to support
what really are traditions of men.
Baloney.
Where does the Holy Spirit say this in His wholly inspired word? Where is Mary shown being manifestly tested the same three ways Eve was (pleasure, possessions, prestige/power: Gn. 3:6) and Christ was (Mt. 4:1-11) yet without sin? (Heb. 4:15)
Are you asking from the totality of His wholly inspired word, or just from Scripture, which is only part of His wholly inspired word?
Why would the Holy Spirit leave this title out of Scripture, along with Mary being sinless and most every laudatory title and attribute Catholics ascribe to her, when the Spirit characteristically mentions exceptions to the norm, from extraordinary age (Methuselah), to not dying (Enoch), to length of fast, (Ezekiel) to miraculous birth (to Abraham and Sarah), to extraordinary height (Ogg) or strength (Samson) or toes (Goliath), or exceeding holiness (Job, Noah, Daniel) supernatural transport (Phillip), the extraordinary post marital length of celibacy of Anna, and uncharacteristic duplicity of Peter, to virgin birth (Mary), to diet (John the Baptist), to the singleness of Paul and Barnabas, to the thrice mentioned sinlessness of Christ?
Because, as I said above, the NT only covers the first generation of Christians, and does not cover second generation and forward.
Certainly a derived doctrine as the Trinity is demanded by Scripture, since all 3 persons are called God, and the very nature of God is important to salvation, but it is certainly is not necessary for Mary to be sinless in order for her Creator to use her to provide the body of His incarnation, any more than those thru whom God breathed out His pure written word were.
So you say, but we disagree.
Nor is Mary unique in being blessed among women (actually of only Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite was it said she would "be blessed shall she be above women in the tent.," Judges 5:24) Nor was she the only women to have supernatural visitation and a miraculous birth, hough Mary was highly graced due to whom she was privileged to be the mother of.
Mary was blessed more than all women, not just those in the tent...Mary bore Jesus, that makes her unique.
I am not saying that one cannot make a case for Mary being a new Eve, but this is part of the multitudinous laudatory praises given to the Mary of Catholicism, thinking of her far "above that which is written," (1Co. 4:6) even of any angel or mortal, and in fact in the hyper exaltation of Mary she much is made to parallel Christ.
If it's good enough for you to trot her out at Christmas, then put her back in the closet, fine. I won't.
And as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God, (Romans 8:14)
and we are to follow His lead here, who is very reticent about giving praises and
laudatory titles to anyone but the Lord, and says actually quite little about Mary. She is not even mentioned in the life of the NT church after mention of her being one of the women of prayer. Out of which scarcity Caths extrapolate all sorts extra and unScriptural platitudes and engage in what is actually worship in the Biblical sense.
You know, titles mean very little. What's important is that we know what she did, that is being God-bearer, and the only one who was with him from birth to death.
That is simply not the same thing, as one would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, beseeching such for Heavenly help, and making offerings to them, and giving glory and titles and ascribing attributes to such, which are never given in Scripture to created beings (except to false gods), including having the uniquely Divine power glory to hear and respond to virtually infinite numbers of prayers individually addressed to them.
Answer this, as unrelated as you might think it: Is an acorn the same as an oak?
Which manner of adulation would constitute worship in Scripture, yet Catholics imagine that by playing word games then they can avoid crossing the invisible line between mere "veneration" and worship.
It's not a word game. Words mean things, and the English language is inadequate to describe many terms. "Love" for example.
Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?
Huh?
Actually, it doesn't contradict at all. Being forgiven is different from paying for our transgressions.
So God ISN't a God of mercy AND justice?
There is no distinctive word for worship in Scripture, and instead idolatry is described by such things as the above. The Holy Spirit of God provides apporx. 200 prayers in Scripture but not only single supplication anyone in Heaven by those on earth except by pagans. Including to the only Queen of Heaven no less. (Jer. 44)
As above, Scripture is only part of the Word of God.
And though Catholics do not like it, the gospels are understood in the light of the rest of the NT, and wherein we never see your interpretation of all believers regularly coming to priests to be forgiven, and in fact you will not even find one single instance where the Holy Spirit called NT minsters "priests" in distinction to the laity, as the only sacerdotal priesthood in the NT church is that of all believers.
As above, because the NT only covers the first generation of the Church. Priests were not needed, because the Church had not grown (as an acorn to an oak). They went to the bishops for forgiveness, and did due penance for their sins after being forgiven.
Moreover, while the magisterium is given the judicial power of binding and loosing, as was the OT magisterium (
Dt. 17:8-13) and even fathers over daughters and husbands over wives (which a vow of perpetual virginity would require) as well as civil authorities, (
Numbers 30:5.
8; Rm. 13:1-7; 1Pt. 2:13) yet in the spiritual realm this power is provided for all holy believers of fervent prayer such as Elijah, who had power to spiritually bind and loose the heavens, (
1Ki. 17:1;
1Ki 18:18,
42-45)
For after speaking of judicial judgments regarding personal conflict, Mt. 18 expands the teaching on binding/loosing by saying, Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (
Matthew 18:19,
20)
Likewise in James 5, in which the intercession of presbuteros - not hierus=priests - obtains healing, even if (likely) as a consequence of chastisement for sin (cf.
Mt. 9:2-7) is followed by the only exhortation to confess sins to others, which is a general one to one another, with the promise of healing, not due to clerical status, but due to holy fervent prayer: "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much," (
James 5:16) is what James says Elijah exampled, binding and loosing the heavens, (Ja. 5:17,18) which is exhorted for all believers. Blessed be God. I am no Elijah sadly. Nor are RC priests.
Loosing those who are afflicted or in discipline delivering souls to bondage are also examples of this power. (
Lk. 4:18;
13:16;
1Cor. 5:1-5)
This is all explained by what I posted, above.
PTDS by www.peacebyjesus, on Flickr
