Immaculate Conception

[Extraneous]

Do you honestly think that the Lords instructions are so difficult that we need a teacher? Think about it. What did he command us to do? Do you already know? Then what do you need a teacher for? Follow the spirit, not teachers.

Its my belief that we can teach each other by sharing. There is no teacher, only the scripture and the Lord, whom we all fellowship with together. This way is not only more wise, but its also biblical. Look at what the Lord said and see if its not biblical...

Look- Matthew 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah

 

[Extraneous]

Forgive me but i feel compelled to go on. Lets look at 1 Corinthians. Paul seems to contradict the Lord when he refers to himself as a father. However, he is speaking to spiritual infants in Christ. We should not remain infants. Look at what paul says in chapter 3. He says that he couldn't address them as spiritual people. Thats why he refers to himself as a father. Hes calling them immature un-spiritual babes! What else does he say? He says learn to not go beyond what was written. Paul also says we have Gods spirit. Did you not know? (he asks) He is telling us to follow only scripture, and to grow up and not follow teachers, nor to glorify them in any way. Only a babe needs a father or teacher.


1 Corinthians 3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?.



5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.


16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”[a]; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[c] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

Chapter 4:1 This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.


6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

Paul’s Appeal and Warning
14 I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

All teachers are for is preaching the word. The word teaches us. The word is both scripture and spirit. WE dont need that anymore however, because we can read scripture ourselves and hear the word, without the need of a teacher. What did paul tell Timothy? To commit himself to public reading of scripture. 1 Timothy 4:13

The idea that since we can read Scripture (which is not new) means that teachers of it are a museum piece is absurd, as God gave pastors and teachers not as a gift for a few decades, as preaching is not simply reading Scripture, or addressing those who did not have Scripture, but as we see therein, it is applying what Scripture says to persons and situations, exhorting, rebuking and comforting them. And Paul was actually charging Timothy to so do this, to preach as a pastor, not simply read it.

I believe we can help each other, and its good to share our biblical knowledge, and grow together, but to follow a teacher is folly in these last days.

What we are doing here is not simply sharing our biblical knowledge, nor simply following a teacher, but teaching, and your own responses here are a form of preaching in contending for the faith, except that you are out in left field yourself, taking things out of context or in ignorance of them, likely because you are not teachable.

You want to contend against autocratic Rome with its extra and contra Scriptural teachings, and discouragement of searching Scripture in order to ascertain the veracity of what she teaches, yet you play into their hand by going to the other extreme that holds that we do not even need teachers, who may be given some illumination of things in Scripture that we have not yet seen, or will focus on something we overlooked, and or know how to apply it to our life, and may see things in our own life that need to be addressed.

You likely also do not like texts such as Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. (Hebrews 13:17)

 

[Extraneous]

The idea that since we can read Scripture (which is not new) means that teachers of it are a museum piece is absurd, as God gave pastors and teachers not as a gift for a few decades, as preaching is not simply reading Scripture, or addressing those who did not have Scripture, but as we see therein, it is applying what Scripture says to persons and situations, exhorting, rebuking and comforting them. And Paul was actually charging Timothy to so do this, to preach as a pastor, not simply read it.


What we are doing here is not simply sharing our biblical knowledge, nor simply following a teacher, but teaching, and your own responses here are a form of preaching in contending for the faith, except that you are out in left field yourself, taking things out of context or in ignorance of them, likely because you are not teachable.

You want to contend against autocratic Rome with its extra and contra Scriptural teachings, and discouragement of searching Scripture in order to ascertain the veracity of what she teaches, yet you play into their hand by going to the other extreme that holds that we do not even need teachers, who may be given some illumination of things in Scripture that we have not yet seen, or will focus on something we overlooked, and or know how to apply it to our life, and may see things in our own life that need to be addressed.

You likely also do not like texts such as Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. (Hebrews 13:17)

I never meant to suggest that teachers are outdated. No sir, my intention was to shine light on the truth of the New Covenant. God promised his spirit, to be our teacher. Only babes need a teacher. Spiritual people dont need to listen to one man as if they were in grade school. My other point was that teachers are dangerous in these days. Its been prophesied through the apostle Paul. Brother, its time for the Church to grow up. Look at all the endless debating over man made tradition. I would ask you to reconsider your judgment of this matter, and reserve it for a future time. There is no harm in meditating on this for awhile.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Yes, its written right there. Mary is Josephs wife, and if Mary is Gods Mother then Joseph must be his father...????

Caths will object to that since Joseph had nothing to do with proving material for the incarnation (and according to Caths, the man never even consummated the marriage, contra Gn. 2:24; Mt. 19:4,5) but neither did Mary provide any material for Christ being God, while the logic that "Christ is God made flesh, Mary is His Mother = Mary is the Mother of God," also means, "Christ is God made flesh, the Jews (via Romans) murdered Christ = the Jews killed God/God died."

Aside from the fact that we all did so, such language, while technically allowable in a qualified context, is contrary to the Holy Spirit's language, which even qualifies that while Christ came out of Israel, qualifies that by saying, "of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." (Romans 9:5)

And "Mother of God" is nowhere chosen by the Spirit, and which, as with stating that God died, most naturally sends a message contrary to Scripture, in the first case it infers that Mary is ontologically the mother of God, and in the second that God can die.

Thus need to give reverence to the language the Spirit chooses and the appellation He gives to man, but in contrasts, Catholics even tend to shun Theotokos - God-bearer in favor of "Mother of God," capitalized "Mother" no less, and which is part of the idolatrous adoration of the fictitious Mary of Catholicism, who is [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]exalted (officially or with implicit sanction) as

• an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to,
• whose [Mary] merits we are saved by,
• who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin,"
• and was bodily assumed into Heaven, which is a fact (unsubstantiated in Scripture or even early Tradition) because the Roman church says it is, and "was elevated to a certain affinity with the Heavenly Father,"
• and whose power now "is all but unlimited,"
• for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God,"
• "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven,"
• so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse."
• and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus,"
• for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation,"
• Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose," [/FONT]
• and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven,"
• including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels,"
• whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests,"
• and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess,"
• and who is (obviously) the glory of Catholic people, whose "honor and dignity surpass the whole of creation." Sources and more.​

 

[Extraneous]

You yourselves have testified about the danger of teachers.

 

[Extraneous]

Caths will object to that since Joseph had nothing to do with proving material for the incarnation (and according to Caths, the man never even consummated the marriage, contra Gn. 2:24; Mt. 19:4,5) but neither did Mary provide any material for Christ being God, while the logic that "Christ is God made flesh, Mary is His Mother = Mary is the Mother of God," also means, "Christ is God made flesh, the Jews (via Romans) murdered Christ = the Jews killed God/God died."

Aside from the fact that we all did so, such language, while technically allowable in a qualified context, is contrary to the Holy Spirit's language, which even qualifies that while Christ came out of Israel, qualifies that by saying, "of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." (Romans 9:5)

And "Mother of God" is nowhere chosen by the Spirit, and which, as with stating that God died, most naturally sends a message contrary to Scripture, in the first case it infers that Mary is ontologically the mother of God, and in the second that God can die.

Thus need to give reverence to the language the Spirit chooses and the appellation He gives to man, but in contrasts, Catholics even tend to shun Theotokos - God-bearer in favor of "Mother of God," capitalized "Mother" no less, and which is part of the idolatrous adoration of the fictitious Mary of Catholicism, who is [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]exalted (officially or with implicit sanction) as

• an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to,
• whose [Mary] merits we are saved by,
• who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin,"
• and was bodily assumed into Heaven, which is a fact (unsubstantiated in Scripture or even early Tradition) because the Roman church says it is, and "was elevated to a certain affinity with the Heavenly Father,"
• and whose power now "is all but unlimited,"
• for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God,"
• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven," [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse." [/FONT]
• and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus,"
• for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation,"
• Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose," [/FONT]
• and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven,"
• including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels,"
• whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests,"
• and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess,"
• and who is (obviously) the glory of Catholic people, whose "honor and dignity surpass the whole of creation." Sources and more.​

Thank you. Have a blessed day brother.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

God promised his spirit, to be our teacher. Only babes need a teacher.

That is absurd, the very Scriptures you read do not say that, only that babes need milk, while preaching includes "meat," and thus God have us men such as Spurgeon, Wesley, and Matthew Henry. While you presume that you no longer need teachers, far greater men than you disagree. . Concerning the Henry, Trumbull in his introduction to Henry's Commentary says.

By the grace of God and to His glory, out of a seeming obscure verse Henry can bring to light a deep truth and fitting application. Robert Hall, George Whitefield, and Charles Spurgeon all used and heartily commended the work, with Whitefield reading it through four times - the last time on his knees! Spurgeon stated, " Every minister ought to read it entirely and carefully through once at least." (Commenting and Commentaries, p. 3).

I must confess i find i have not the energy and heart to do that now, but the point is that we are interdependent in common dependence upon God, for " the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." (1 Corinthians 12:7) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:12)

You need teachers, examined in the light of Scripture, but need to be benefited by them nonetheless, for that is how God tempered the body together, not as a bunch of independent parts.

 

[Extraneous]

That is absurd, the very Scriptures you read do not say that, only that babes need milk, while preaching includes "meat," and thus God have us men such as Spurgeon, Wesley, and Matthew Henry. While you presume that you no longer need teachers, far greater men than you disagree. . Concerning the Henry, Trumbull in his introduction to Henry's Commentary says.

By the grace of God and to His glory, out of a seeming obscure verse Henry can bring to light a deep truth and fitting application. Robert Hall, George Whitefield, and Charles Spurgeon all used and heartily commended the work, with Whitefield reading it through four times - the last time on his knees! Spurgeon stated, " Every minister ought to read it entirely and carefully through once at least." (Commenting and Commentaries, p. 3).

I must confess i find i have not the energy and heart to do that now, but the point is that we are interdependent in common dependence upon God, and and " the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." (1 Corinthians 12:7) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:12)

Ok brother, tell me then. What more do i need to learn? What hidden truth will you show me? Please convince me that there is merit in your words. As far as i can see there is no hidden truth that i can learn, no matter how many preachers i listen to, no matter how many years, it will still end up the same way. AS far as i know all that matters if faith working by love.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

You yourselves have testified about the danger of teachers.

Which response examples why you need teachers, for just like your "to follow a teacher is folly in these last days" statement, this is a false dilemma, that reduces the options to being btwn having no need of teachers or following false teachers, while a 3rd alternative exists, that of having need of the benefits God brings by others while examining them in the light of Scripture.

Likewise we need government, else we have anarchy, but obedience to such is conditioned upon whether was is required of us is not manifestly contrary to Scripture.

 

[Extraneous]

Perhaps i am missing something, but i concluded that Christ was much simpler than all this. I figured that love and faith was enough.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Ok brother, tell me then. What more do i need to learn? What hidden truth will you show me? Please convince me that there is merit in your words. As far as i can see there is no hidden truth that i can learn, no matter how many preachers i listen to, no matter how many years, it will still end up the same way. AS far as i know all that matters if faith working by love.

I simply cannot believe your pride and arrogance! You actually think that even reading Matthew Henry's commentary will no reveal more to you out of Scripture than what you now see? The very fact that you do not see that 1 Co. 12 says you need others shows that you have need of teachers.

 

[Extraneous]

Which response examples why you need teachers, for just like your "to follow a teacher is folly in these last days" statement, this is a false dilemma, that reduces the options to being btwn having no need of teachers or following false teachers, while a 3rd alternative exists, that of having need of the benefits God brings by others while examining them in the light of Scripture.

Likewise we need government, else we have anarchy, but obedience to such is conditioned upon whether was is required of us is not manifestly contrary to Scripture.

My intention was to promote group bible study and following the spirit. I do believe with all my heart that this is good.

You have shown me that i dont belong in the Church. Im tired brother, i cant take anymore of this.

 

[Extraneous]

I simply cannot believe your pride and arrogance! You actually think that even reading Matthew Henry's commentary will no reveal more to you out of Scripture than what you now see? The very fact that you do not see that 1 Co. 12 says you need others shows that you have need of teachers.

Tell me then. What more do i need to know? Lets see the evidence brother.

 

[Extraneous]

Thats what i thought. There is nothing you can ad to my faith. All i need is your love. I cant have that however because now i have become your enemy, because i spoke the simple truth.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Tell me then. What more do i need to know? Lets see the evidence brother.

OK, since you do not need the benefit of teachers, then without consulting the work of others, including Bible helps or the Internet, or using any knowledge obtained by the work of others, tell me now what Scriptures in the OT support the judicial binding and loosing of Mt. 18, which is needful in refuting RC presumptions. This simply tests your Bible knowledge.

Now tell me how the prophecy of the destruction of Tyre was fulfilled. This simply tests your historical knowledge, for which you have no need of teachers.

Now show me from Scripture why the practice of consensual cannibalism would be wrong, and under which conditions it might be allowed. This tests your theological ability.

Likewise show two or more main critical differences btwn the commands of conquest given to Joshua and those given to Muhammad.

All this is needful if you are going to obey the command to earnestly contend for the faith. (Jude 1:3)

 

[PeaceByJesus]

My intention was to promote group bible study and following the spirit. I do believe with all my heart that this is good.

You have shown me that i dont belong in the Church. Im tired brother, i cant take anymore of this.

You are right. As one who is independent of others, then you do not belong in the church to which God says,

For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. (1 Corinthians 12:14-21)

But that is essentially your claim as concerns Scriptural teachers.

 

[Extraneous]

Just to set the record straight. Allow me to correct your misconceptions. Im not arrogant, i actually believe what i said is true. I dont believe in anarchy either as you suggested. Instead i believe in submitting to government as the scriptures teach us. I dont however believe politics are spiritual. Jesus was neither Republican and democrat. Try preaching the gospel in one hand and the GOP or DNC propaganda in the other. You will only stain the pure Gospel. Paul said we put no stumbling block in anyone's path, we love our enemies and do good for them. We dont offend them with our politics. We cannot serve two masters.

You must not know this though, i assume. You dont need another teacher brother, you need to read the scriptures for yourself and seek the spirit. Teachers have lead you astray and you dont even know it.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Thats what i thought. There is nothing you can ad to my faith. All i need is your love. I cant have that however because now i have become your enemy, because i spoke the simple truth.

I hope you can answer my questions as quickly as you concluded i had none.

Which response again testifies to your need of teachers, for "love" is defined in Scripture, and it simply do not exclude rebuke, but includes it, and your contentions that you have need of nothing in the way of teachers (at least) is simply not Biblical Truth.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; ..Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (Ephesians 4:11,13)

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (1 Timothy 3:2)

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; (Romans 12:6-7)

Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. (Galatians 6:6)

 

[Extraneous]

OK, since you do not need the benefit of teachers, then without consulting the work of others, including Bible helps or the Internet, or using any knowledge obtained by the work of others, tell me now what Scriptures in the OT support the judicial binding and loosing of Mt. 18, which is needful in refuting RC presumptions. This simply tests your Bible knowledge.

Now tell me how the prophecy of the destruction of Tyre was fulfilled. This simply tests your historical knowledge, for which you have no need of teachers.

Now show me from Scripture why the practice of consensual cannibalism would be wrong, and under which conditions it might be allowed. This tests your theological ability.

Likewise show two or more main critical differences btwn the commands of conquest given to Joshua and those given to Muhammad.

All this is needful if you are going to obey the command to earnestly contend for the faith. (Jude 1:3)

Everything you are talking about is good bible study, but its hardly hidden knowledge that will help me follow Christ better. Do you know what will help me? Putting away debate and instead following the simple doctrine of Christ. That's the power of Christ, not this theological stuff. Thats what i was trying to emphasize.

Im not against learning these things, but its not worth the division we see, or the heresy we put up with. What i was talking about was breaking the chains of religion that divides us. Its a fools errand, i know, but i had to say what i believe.