I'm trying to decide if premarital sex is ok

[fieldlily]

It's not okay.

 

[cheese007]

It's not okay.

I love all the evidence you provided to back up this claim, and the in depth response you gave based on said evidence.

 

[UNKN0WN]

Humans are more important than our perceptions of 'sin'.

 

[Nadiine]

Humans are more important than our perceptions of 'sin'.

Well of course... but some "sin" isn't just "perceived". Scriptures tell us directly what the obvious sins are. What's MOST important is GOD and His commands about what we should & shouldn't be doing. And we do them becuz not only other human beings are important (so we don't abuse others), but God is important to us.

Like any truly loving parent, God's laws aren't there to "ruin our fun", but to protect us from serious harm that comes from them (seen and unseen harm).

 

[Shredhead]

When you have sex , you become one flesh . It runs a lot deeper than the physical act . Sex outside of marriage is fornication , for this reason God calls it immorality .

 

[Nadiine]

When you have sex , you become one flesh . It runs a lot deeper than the physical act . Sex outside of marriage is fornication , for this reason God calls it immorality .

I cannot agree more.
People seem to think that if they "love" or 'want' another person sexually, that the act is only physical. & if it felt good & they both enjoyed it, that there's no harm done.
But they're missing the spiritual damage it causes - how it affects us psychologically & in our spirit. & how does Sin not do damage to us or others?

It's like any other sin we continue in, it leads to others and causes chain reactions of other wrong attitudes towards other people and God... it's NOT harmless.

 

[Shredhead]

Humans are more important than our perceptions of 'sin'.

You know what , God isn't the slightest bit concerned about our perceptions of sin , He's concerned about what He calls sin . Fornication is one of those He calls sin .

 

[UNKN0WN]

God is not male.

We only have what we say Gods says is sin. God has yet to prove anything other than utter devotion and love for us.

 

[holo]

Let's be like Adam and Eve (hey, we already are, we just don't realize it). Instead of focusing on whether this is right or that is sin, and rather than pondering and arguing about how God would techically see this or that, they just lived and loved and focused on each other. The whole concept of "pre-marital sex" was completely foreign to them, and it should be as foreign to us. In fact, the whole sin issue should be foreign to us.

Living according to some list of dos and don'ts is not what we were created to do - in fact that way of living is a result of the Fall and nothing but the Fall. Why should I live like the old fallen Adam when I am now dead to him and re-created in the image of the NEW Adam, Christ?

Stop chewing on that forbidden fruit and get back into the Garden where we belong. It looks tempting, and that's why people get such ideas as "the law was given for our benefit", but it wasn't - God told us NOT to eat from it for a reason, and though it was good, it turned out to bring death.

This whole idea of trying to follow some sort of rule in order to please God is well meant, but it misses the point completely. It's not even close to what it's all about. We were created to, and Jesus died so that we may, simply have fellowship with the Lord. That's it. We don't need rules any more than Adam and Eve did, and if we walk with God as they did, it's not like immorality becomes an issue anyway.

The difference is that they kept their eyes on God, while we foolishly and uselessly keep our eyes on rules.

 

[Nadiine]

Let's be like Adam and Eve (hey, we already are, we just don't realize it). Instead of focusing on whether this is right or that is sin, and rather than pondering and arguing about how God would techically see this or that, they just lived and loved and focused on each other. The whole concept of "pre-marital sex" was completely foreign to them, and it should be as foreign to us. In fact, the whole sin issue should be foreign to us.

How about we OBEY God AND enjoy our mate (spouse).
Adam and Eve were created as a pair FOR one another.
What did God say about their relationship?
Matthew 19:4
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who madethem at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

This doesn't sound to me like we're supposed to ignore what God calls us to do or not do. Jesus was extremely specific about proper sexual unions and many other things.

Living according to some list of dos and don'ts is not what we were created to do - in fact that way of living is a result of the Fall and nothing but the Fall. Why should I live like the old fallen Adam when I am now dead to him and re-created in the image of the NEW Adam, Christ?

We can't live in joy and peace while being within God's will of obedience to His commands?
You sound like you have some PHOBIA about do's and don'ts.? When we were children we still loved our parents yet did what they told us to & didn't do what they told us not to do; how exactly does that ruin or spoil any loving relationship? It actually ENHANCES & establishes the relationship.

Stop chewing on that forbidden fruit and get back into the Garden where we belong. It looks tempting, and that's why people get such ideas as "the law was given for our benefit", but it wasn't - God told us NOT to eat from it for a reason, and though it was good, it turned out to bring death.

You're preaching imbalance here. Why can't a child of God do BOTH - obey AND enjoy the loving relationship. Obedience is a way of serving God and feeling the JOY within us in pleasing Him with our lives. We're living sacrifices - we GIVE our life to Him.
God also works within us to grow & mature us; oftentimes that includes weeding out our pet sins that we can't seem to put away so easily- He does this by using His Spirit in inner conviction. Keeping a clear conscience.

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

1 John 3:24
[ The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

We cannot escape the fact that God tells us things to do and not do. How God leads us in our daily life will be in full compliance with what the Bible teaches us to do and not do. (if not, then one better double check to see which spirit they follow).

The KEY is Balance - love should be synonymous with obedience; the 2 go hand in hand it shouldn't be a horrible burden and something we hate to do.
If it is, then again, we better recheck the spirit we claim to have.

& if a person isn't feeling any inner conviction by God's Spirit when they do sin or when being tempted to sin, then they need to double check their salvation becuz that's one of the duties of His Spirit within us.

We should be aware of sin plus seek to please God; keeping a clear conscience. We also need to be repenting regularly when we know we've done wrong. These are components of Christianity and we don't ignore conviction (ie. right & wrong) while we keep our JOY in the Lord.
If we can't do BOTH at the same time, then there's a problem that needs to be addressed in balancing them.

 

[Nadiine]

You know what , God isn't the slightest bit concerned about our perceptions of sin , He's concerned about what He calls sin . Fornication is one of those He calls sin .

Romans 1:18-32 (& Rom 2:14-15) is clear- we KNOW right from wrong becuz God's moral code is inside us all. People who live outside His will are suppressing what they know is true innately.

 

[Chie]

No matter how many times I read the bible , it still over rides what my flesh wants to hear. Prayers that I never get harden to God's way in all things.

 

[MichaelD111]

Romans 1:18-32 (& Rom 2:14-15) is clear- we KNOW right from wrong becuz God's moral code is inside us all. People who live outside His will are suppressing what they know is true innately.

Do primitive peoples know instinctively that their pre-marital sexual activities are wrong? The evidence says "No". I agree that there are some innate morals, but the Christian principle of sexual abstinence does not appear to be one of them--this seems to be culturally conditioned more than anything else.

 

[MichaelD111]

Stop chewing on that forbidden fruit and get back into the Garden where we belong. It looks tempting, and that's why people get such ideas as "the law was given for our benefit", but it wasn't - God told us NOT to eat from it for a reason, and though it was good, it turned out to bring death.

By that logic, should we refrain from bringing The Law and Christian morality to primitive peoples? This way they won't be guilty of sin.

 

[holo]

By that logic, should we refrain from bringing The Law and Christian morality to primitive peoples? This way they won't be guilty of sin.
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Morality won't save anyone, so I don't see why we should bring any morality to anyone. The gospel, on the other hand...

 

[holo]

How about we OBEY God AND enjoy our mate (spouse).

Yes! Let's start by obeying the commandment Adam and Eve broke.

What did God say about their relationship?
Matthew 19:4
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who madethem at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

This doesn't sound to me like we're supposed to ignore what God calls us to do or not do.

And yet we insist on eating and eating and eating of that forbidden fruit and keep our eyes on the law and our nudity and basically everything but the Lord.

Jesus was extremely specific about proper sexual unions and many other things.

Yes, He took the law very seriously, the entire law, and He explained it and reinforced it. As He should, being Himself a jew under the law. But we aren't. The law is for sinners, in other words those who are "in Adam", and we are not in Adam. We are in Christ. Jesus actually rectified what Adam did wrong. In fact, if Adam screwed us, Jesus liberated us even more!

We can't live in joy and peace while being within God's will of obedience to His commands?
You sound like you have some PHOBIA about do's and don'ts.?

Yeah, I'm kind of phobic against the whole Ministry of Death. I kind of shy away from stuff that enslaves and kills me, yes. I try to stay away from sin, so I'd better not provide sin with any more power

When we were children we still loved our parents yet did what they told us to & didn't do what they told us not to do; how exactly does that ruin or spoil any loving relationship? It actually ENHANCES & establishes the relationship.

I don't agree. The only thing that enhances and establishes a parent-child relationship is love.

You're preaching imbalance here.

Nope, I'm preaching both feet firmly planted in GRACE.

Why can't a child of God do BOTH - obey AND enjoy the loving relationship. Obedience is a way of serving God and feeling the JOY within us in pleasing Him with our lives. We're living sacrifices - we GIVE our life to Him.

"...and God saw that it was good."

Why should we do any different than Adam and Eve? Did they not please the Lord? Is there anything in particular they should've done in order to serve God? If you could talk to them, could you give them any tips on how to please Him?

Think about it.

God also works within us to grow & mature us; oftentimes that includes weeding out our pet sins that we can't seem to put away so easily- He does this by using His Spirit in inner conviction. Keeping a clear conscience.

Exactly.

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

Yes, it was hard under the old covenant. You'd have to perform. In fact, under the law, God wouldn't forgive you if you didn't forgive your debtors first. He wouldn't even call you His friend unless YOU loved HIM first.

I for one am glad we don't live in that covenant, but rather in one where HE loved US first. In a covenant where He decided to call us friends completely regardless of our performance.

1 John 3:24
[ The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

We cannot escape the fact that God tells us things to do and not do. How God leads us in our daily life will be in full compliance with what the Bible teaches us to do and not do. (if not, then one better double check to see which spirit they follow).

But then, seeing as nobody can quite agree on exactly what the bible teaches us to do, perhaps we would be better off trusting God to lead us, instead of gambling on one of the thousands of interpretations to be correct.

The KEY is Balance - love should be synonymous with obedience; the 2 go hand in hand it shouldn't be a horrible burden and something we hate to do.

True, but our obedience isn't to try and live according to the letter, which we're dead to and which isn't for us in the first place. Our obedience is to simply look on Christ.

If it is, then again, we better recheck the spirit we claim to have.

Well, a lot of people seem to have a "spirit of bondage" with all their "touch not, handle not"s.

We should be aware of sin

Should Adam and Eve have been aware of sin?

 

[rockytrails]

iT IS NEVER oK TO SIN. pREMARITAL SEX IS SIN .
AND UNREPENT SIN CAN KEEP YOU OUT OF HEAVEN
IF YOU DIE
hOW DO I KNOW premarital sex is sin.

THE SAME WAY any one CAN .

READ AND SEE

http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/wels?q=premarital+sex&sa.x=34&sa.y=8

 

[Shredhead]

The KEY is Balance - love should be synonymous with obedience; the 2 go hand in hand it shouldn't be a horrible burden and something we hate to do.
If it is, then again, we better recheck the spirit we claim to have.

John 14:21

 

[Shredhead]

Is there anything in particular they should've done in order to serve God? If you could talk to them, could you give them any tips on how to please Him?

uuuummm , obedience ...that would've been a good start .

Stop chewing on that forbidden fruit and get back into the Garden where we belong. It looks tempting, and that's why people get such ideas as "the law was given for our benefit", but it wasn't - God told us NOT to eat from it for a reason, and though it was good, it turned out to bring death.

Sooo , the Law was , don't eat from the tree because the tree will bring death , but the law wasn't for our benefit ??...
If I put a fence around my pool , it's for the benefit of those that can't swim .

 

[holo]

uuuummm , obedience ...that would've been a good start .

But do you think it would've been necessary, or even meaningful, to tell Adam and Eve not to steal or murder each other, for example? If so, why? If not, why not?

Just think about it. Would they have been better off with the ten commandments, for example? No, in fact, God ordered them to not even know about good and evil.

Think about what that means. Think about what that says about how man was intended to live - not based on morality, not based on any knowledge of good and evil, but based only on knowing the Lord.

Sooo , the Law was , don't eat from the tree because the tree will bring death , but the law wasn't for our benefit ??...

That one single original commandment was for their benefit. It was given to keep them alive. The law tree only kills. It did then, and it does now. When the commandment came, sin sprang to life, and we DIED.