I'm tired of the Christian Culture

[Gnarwhal]

Is that even possible?

I burned out about six months ago, when my divorce proceedings began. In the months and years preceding that I went from being the pretty ordinary evangelical that I was raised to be, to a whacky charismatic, to utilizing my love of history to seek out the truest continuation of the church and it's traditions (which led me to exploring Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy). Then I stopped cold turkey. I got sick of it all, stopped going to church and am left feeling more or less Agnostic, or at least ambivalent.

I think this decline started with basically a disdain for Christian culture. I've gotten tired that Christians try so hard to create their own versions of everything. Like Rob Bell said about art, for example:

I don't believe in Christian art or music. The word Christian was originally a noun. A person, not an adjective. I believe in great art. If you are an artist, your job is to do great art and you don't need to tack on the word Christian. It's already great. God is the God of Creativity. Categories desecrate the art form. It's either great art or it isn't. Followers of Jesus should have the first word instead of coming late to the game with some poor quality spin-off. Let's talk about things before everyone else.

Full Article.

I started seeing what Bell said about art, and I started seeing the same principle in every other aspect of life. Art, relationships, academics, social circles and events... what the what?!

I got tired of this sub-par "alternative" to life that I felt like I was expected to live if I wanted to be a Christian. This was a huge component of my detachment from the faith. In recent months I've started dating a woman and she's not a Christian (but she believes in a Higher Power and is open to the idea of going to church, probably more than me), but I find her more thoughtful, compelling, honest and full of integrity than most folks I knew in my former Christian circles and I'm absolutely crazy about her.

Does anyone else understand what I'm saying, and maybe feel the same way? If so, have you decided to continue in your faith? If you have, how do you reconcile this conflict?

 

[andy b]

what is Christian culture exactly.....on physical level how will your life change by not being a Christian how can it hold you back im baffled...what are you gonna do go out and crank some smack ...your over think life brother my dad once told me never trust a man who changes his football team if they lose a few games because hell buckle under pressure dont buckle brother keep the faith

 

[Hetta]

I got tired of this sub-par "alternative" to life that I felt like I was expected to live if I wanted to be a Christian.

Are you talking about the man made restrictions placed upon behavior such as what you may read, watch, listen to, etc?

 

[hedrick]

I don't quite understand, largely because I've never been exposed to "Christian" culture in the first place. Or not in the sense you mean. I listen mostly to classical music. It was mostly written by Christians, and much of the choral literature is explicitly Christian. But Bach isn't what most people mean by "Christian music."

I've also never seriously considered special Christian science, archaeology, or politics.

But this is a result of having lived my whole life as a mainline Christian.

Being part of the Church is worth it, not to remove you from the mainstream culture, but to participate in a community that supports each other in a special way, because it's based on all seeing ourselves as related through having Christ as our brother and God as our Father.

 

[Gnarwhal]

what is Christian culture exactly.....on physical level how will your life change by not being a Christian how can it hold you back im baffled...what are you gonna do go out and crank some smack ...your over think life brother my dad once told me never trust a man who changes his football team if they lose a few games because hell buckle under pressure dont buckle brother keep the faith

Sorry, I've had a bit of trouble understanding your post, but my issues have also become historical/theological. As I've gone through school some very poignant questions have come up and I haven't figured out what to make of it.

Are you talking about the man made restrictions placed upon behavior such as what you may read, watch, listen to, etc?

Essentially, yes I think so. I think much of it has to do with morals, and my questioning whether something is truly an issue or if it's demonization is merely a product of American Christianity's (or at least American Evangelicalism's) puritanical bent.

I don't quite understand, largely because I've never been exposed to "Christian" culture in the first place. Or not in the sense you mean. I listen mostly to classical music. It was mostly written by Christians, and much of the choral literature is explicitly Christian. But Bach isn't what most people mean by "Christian music."

I've also never seriously considered special Christian science, archaeology, or politics.

But this is a result of having lived my whole life as a mainline Christian.

Being part of the Church is worth it, not to remove you from the mainstream culture, but to participate in a community that supports each other in a special way, because it's based on all seeing ourselves as related through having Christ as our brother and God as our Father.

I'm the same way, I completely stopped listening to any and all Christian music because I find it to be a mockery of music in general (except for chanting and things like that). I'd much rather listen to Chopin or The Ramones than some of those jokes that get played on Christian radio.

I'm sure this isn't the case in all church communities, but it seems like in every church community in my town (even the more moderate-liberal ones), there are expectations to live a certain way. Some churches take it to more extremes than others.

As an example, one of my closest friends recently told me he couldn't hang out with me anymore because "I wasn't living according to God's plan" or something along those lines. I'm not attending church, I'm not "under the authority of a pastor" and I'm dating someone even though my divorce won't be finalized until next month - even though my ex-wife and I agreed that we were okay with each other doing that if we met someone, and she started dating someone three months before me. According to him though, I'm essentially "living in sin" and being the "good bible-believing Christian" that he is, if he's going to obey what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:11 then he "can't even eat with me"... or at least that's the conclusion his overly-controlling mentor spits out.

It's those kinds of rules, expectations, structures that don't make sense to me anymore. I feel like it's all phony, because I look around at the people at my old church who pretend to live righteously and I know they're all full of crap. They lie, cheat, steal, deceive and worse and yet they frown on me for not going to church and falling in love with someone a couple months shy of my divorce finalizing?

Get real.

Sorry, I don't know if any of this makes sense, maybe I'm just venting?

 

[andy b]

maybe its because im from the uk that i dont understand.....it really doesn't impact my life at all .Everyone tends to keep there beliefs to themselves.I could be out with four people and not know what faith if any they where...my best mate says hes an atheist and he was the best man at my wedding ( not sure how that works ) my advice is follow your heart and be happy

 

[Gnarwhal]

maybe its because im from the uk that i dont understand.....it really doesn't impact my life at all .Everyone tends to keep there beliefs to themselves.I could be out with four people and not know what faith if any they where...my best mate says hes an atheist and he was the best man at my wedding ( not sure how that works ) my advice is follow your heart and be happy

I would imagine that it is a lot different in the UK than the US. From my experience in a variety of churches in the US, they try to keep a tight rein on you. There are unspoken expectations for a person to say, do and behave thusly and if you disagree and refuse to do so, then you're ostracized.

I've always imagined the UK is much different in that respect.

 

[Hetta]

I would imagine that it is a lot different in the UK than the US. From my experience in a variety of churches in the US, they try to keep a tight rein on you. There are unspoken expectations for a person to say, do and behave thusly and if you disagree and refuse to do so, then you're ostracized.

Yes! So true.

I've always imagined the UK is much different in that respect.

If so, they are very lucky.

 

[andy b]

Yes! So true.

If so, they are very lucky.

nobody really cares about anything in britain..not in a bad way its odd really....if someone tells you anything no matter how bizarre or strange about anyone ..the standard reply is...... are they so what

 

[steve_bakr]

Is that even possible?

I burned out about six months ago, when my divorce proceedings began. In the months and years preceding that I went from being the pretty ordinary evangelical that I was raised to be, to a whacky charismatic, to utilizing my love of history to seek out the truest continuation of the church and it's traditions (which led me to exploring Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy). Then I stopped cold turkey. I got sick of it all, stopped going to church and am left feeling more or less Agnostic, or at least ambivalent.

I think this decline started with basically a disdain for Christian culture. I've gotten tired that Christians try so hard to create their own versions of everything. Like Rob Bell said about art, for example:

Full Article.

I started seeing what Bell said about art, and I started seeing the same principle in every other aspect of life. Art, relationships, academics, social circles and events... what the what?!

I got tired of this sub-par "alternative" to life that I felt like I was expected to live if I wanted to be a Christian. This was a huge component of my detachment from the faith. In recent months I've started dating a woman and she's not a Christian (but she believes in a Higher Power and is open to the idea of going to church, probably more than me), but I find her more thoughtful, compelling, honest and full of integrity than most folks I knew in my former Christian circles and I'm absolutely crazy about her.

Does anyone else understand what I'm saying, and maybe feel the same way? If so, have you decided to continue in your faith? If you have, how do you reconcile this conflict?

You can be Christian and still have open possibilities in your life and thought. The average Christian may have a limited focus, but you don't have to be average. I went to a Calvary Chapel for six years, and that was very limiting. I had a propensity for theology and philosophy but my pastor had a profound bias against academics. That organization simply has a limited scope.

I have found that I can be more involved in theology and philosophy in the Roman Catholic Church. But everywhere there will be an averageness that Heidegger calls "the they." To be authentic you simply need to follow your heart and be yourself.

 

[Sayre]

Yeah I've been here and it kinda sucks. I hate most Christians attitudes to almost everything. I still believe we share one and the same God, but I feel little desire to hang around your average "white evangelical protestant male". Bleerrggh.

I don't have a Jesus sticker on my car, I don't listen to "Christian music", or go to a christian gym (I kid you not!).

Sorry to hear about your divorce - I hope you are well and truly on the path of healing.

 

[Hetta]

To be authentic you simply need to follow your heart and be yourself.

I love that.

 

[hedrick]

Sorry, I've ha
I'm sure this isn't the case in all church communities, but it seems like in every church community in my town (even the more moderate-liberal ones), there are expectations to live a certain way. Some churches take it to more extremes than others.

As an example, one of my closest friends recently told me he couldn't hang out with me anymore because "I wasn't living according to God's plan" or something along those lines. I'm not attending church, I'm not "under the authority of a pastor" and I'm dating someone even though my divorce won't be finalized until next month
...

It's those kinds of rules, expectations, structures that don't make sense to me anymore. I feel like it's all phony, because I look around at the people at my old church who pretend to live righteously and I know they're all full of crap. They lie, cheat, steal, deceive and worse and yet they frown on me for not going to church and falling in love with someone a couple months shy of my divorce finalizing?

Everyone has expectations, but I don't think the specific things you describe would happen in our church. I'm reluctant to speak too confidently, because I live in another town, and I'm kind of out of the range of gossip. But the cases I know of where people have gotten in trouble involved abusive behavior of one sort of another.

 

[Willie T]

Why does it matter what the church down the block is like? Are you attending there?

 

[PrudenceAnn]

Yes, it is definitely different in the UK!! For people of faith, our faith is hugely important to us... But firstly, we tend not to force it upon others, especially in the political sphere (there have been some bad examples of people trying to force beliefs uncommon to UK Christians into the political sphere recently... The person in questions was suspended), and secondly, we are fully encouraged to be who we are. There also seems to be a wide acceptance of other faiths... At least in my circle. It is not that I agree they are right, but I totally respect that this is how they currently see God. After all... If they are not respected, how can I expect them to respect me? It is not that Christians in the UK don't attempt to evangelise... We do... It is more that we tend not to force it. If someone asks, we share our faith with enthusiasm. If they don't ask, it doesn't come up.

In terms of Christian culture... We celebrate what I suppose would be Christian culture in church... and many of us take a keen interest in the history of Christianity, including associated art forms... But I have never experienced any restriction in terms of my interests, and have never been expected to drop all my "secular" interests and exchange them for "Christian" ones...

I really don't understand why some people see it as essential to change their identity in response to converting to Christianity... My interpretation of God's love is that He loves us just as we are... This doesn't mean we shouldn't try to live our lives through this love, and echo it to all we meet, but rather, that we shouldn't drop all aspects of our personality in order to try and "please God". Indeed, I do not believe this is pleasing to God! If you follow the logic that God is the supreme creator the one must believe that God made you to be... Well... You. Being something you are not is in essence, working against the gift of life you have been given.

In terms of incorporating supposedly "secular" interests and "Christian" interests... I don't see the dichotomy. Again, going by the logic that God is the "supreme creator" it is illogical to attempt to shoebox life into "Christian" and "secular"... I wrote something about this in another post... When I read a beautiful piece of poetry, or read about a scientific discovery, I don't feel threatened in terms of my faith... I feel even more in awe of our wonderful God. He is capable of speaking to us through SO many mediums (if we listen)... How awesome is that?

I must say... I am getting a little tired of being told online that I am "wrong" or "going to hell" for really quite silly things... For example... Allowing my son to believe in Santa. I feel like some people need to get the log out of their eye a tad...

 

[andy b]

spot on prudence its near impossible to compare religious or even atheist culture in the uk to America....im trying to bring more faith into my life and it doesnt get a second mention by the people around me by the same token i could be an atheist a Muslim or even a satanist...if i went down the pub to watch the footy and said told eveyone i was a devil worshiper id just get laughed at lol, but no one would care

 

[MJohn7]

"To be authentic you simply need to follow your heart and be yourself.

Isn't it about having a repentant heart and following Christ? Isn't about putting on Christ? Its no longer I and my will be done, but instead its Christ and may Gods will be done.

 

[Godisgood12]

I'm tired of the Christian Culture
I burned out about six months ago,

Of course. Im surprised more aren't whining about it already.

All of Gods own only have God and never get bored of God.

Troll thread, though I don't want to get crucified for stating the obvious.

True believers in God will enjoy my post, haters of God will reject me.

 

[Hetta]

Of course. Im surprised more aren't whining about it already.

All of Gods own only have God and never get bored of God.

Troll thread, though I don't want to get crucified for stating the obvious.

True believers in God will enjoy my post, haters of God will reject me.

The bolded is laughable.

He never said he was bored of God - he said he was bored of "Christian culture." You should not put words into his mouth. God wouldn't like that.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Yeah I've been here and it kinda sucks. I hate most Christians attitudes to almost everything. I still believe we share one and the same God, but I feel little desire to hang around your average "white evangelical protestant male". Bleerrggh.

I don't have a Jesus sticker on my car, I don't listen to "Christian music", or go to a christian gym (I kid you not!).

Sorry to hear about your divorce - I hope you are well and truly on the path of healing.

Thanks. Honestly, the divorce hasn't really been that painful, things were so strained for us going all the way back to the honeymoon - we separated twice in the year prior to our split. I think by the time she asked me for a divorce I was mentally prepared and had been expecting it for a while.

I'm the same way, I don't like any of the Christian paraphernalia. I know some people that wear preachy t-shirts, plaster their cars with bumper stickers and things like that. It comes across more pretentious than anything else.

Everyone has expectations, but I don't think the specific things you describe would happen in our church. I'm reluctant to speak too confidently, because I live in another town, and I'm kind of out of the range of gossip. But the cases I know of where people have gotten in trouble involved abusive behavior of one sort of another.

Yeah that sort of thing wouldn't bother me. I would be willing to be that my experiences are more exclusive to evangelicalism/non-denominationalism than mainline protestantism. An expectation for perfect conformity to their interpretation of morality, authority and things like that.

Why does it matter what the church down the block is like? Are you attending there?

I'm not attending anywhere, and the subject matter of this thread is why.

Of course. Im surprised more aren't whining about it already.

All of Gods own only have God and never get bored of God.

Troll thread, though I don't want to get crucified for stating the obvious.

True believers in God will enjoy my post, haters of God will reject me.

Look at you Mr. Martyr.

The bolded is laughable.

He never said he was bored of God - he said he was bored of "Christian culture." You should not put words into his mouth. God wouldn't like that.

Tell me about it!