I'm through with CAF

[MikeK]

Yeah, and sadly, the same thing happened here if you recall.

Jim

Yes it did. Why do they only target the best, smartest, most attractive people?

Thankfully, the ring-leader was banned here, although he now comes back from time to time. He is one of those people that you just have to pity. With the exception of Michie and Benedictaoo, the whistleblower who brought the shameful conspiracy to light, the posters he looked to for help weren't exactly renowned for their integrity.

 

[Michie]

Let me just say with the death of my father at a young age... Thank God up above for Social Security.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Let me just say with the death of my father at a young age... Thank God up above for Social Security.

I think the more immediate cause of Social Security was FDR

 

[Michie]

I think the more immediate cause of Social Security was FDR

I thank God for all that is good. Whatever tool He chooses to use is up to Him. But I give credit to FDR for being willing to do what was right.

 

[WarriorAngel]

This is what the poster posted which the debate was over.





I merely asked after he had posted about his parents, whether the number "14" at the end of his name was his age?

Based on the tone of his posts, I really thought I was conversing with a teenager, not a working adult.

Anyway, I plan to stay out of CAF News Forums after my suspension is over. It's arguing with neocons on a 12-1 ratio.

FYI, if they complain against you, even if you haven't violated a rule, it still goes against you. Enough complaints, along with a subjective violation will still get you banned for excessive moderation. That's how I was banned for life the last time.



Jim

So IOW - its best to just forget the place.
I used to use it for pm's til i got my friend to post in here... eventually.
Havent been in there for eons now, otherwise.

So - you dont know if complaints happen - just one day - bam! There ya go - off with your head?

Not that it would be the end all of my existence - i dont care that much to worry about it.

Threads like this tempt me. But i feel i would be moderate at best in there if it is as harsh as some report.
Yup - moderate - me! Then come in here and sure as daylight i bet i am a neocon to some...
No forum is immune it seems from detractors and whisperers.

I dont have time for kindergarten crap. I am what i am on here and then i sign off. The games - arent interesting enough for me.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Why are you assuming I didn't direct my concerns to a priest, WA? My wife and I did indeed.

That was one issue. We don't buy into NFP or the full conclusions of Humane Vitae, not something I want to debate. But the fact is, papal supremeacy, papal infallibility, indulgences, purgatory, circular reasoning, inconsistency, and yes stuff like NFP and scandals and especially the horrendous Novus Ordo disaster liturgy in my area, those were all reasons we left. NFP and my wife's near-death stuff were but one area where I was lambasted and mocked.

And, no offense, but the idea that the Republican Party is the Party of Jesus and the Catholic Church, that was another concern. I was so sick of Tea Party Neo-Con rhetoric, blew me away how that rules CAF.

I nearly died having my last child - OBOB did the same thing to me because 3 priests said it would be ok to cure my body with surgery which happens to be tubal ligation.

I have a loose vein that is incurable in my womb which is easily engorged at pregnancy [because thats what they do in pregnancy]. Was told every child i would have after could kill me no matter how far along in my term. Also discovered my body was irregular - and no matter when i were to be intimate - i somehow got pregnant.

But priests can be aware of health crisis and the fact science makes it possible to know the odds of death now and how to avoid it. NFP is great - for a normal healthy human being. And is possible to use.

But CAF isnt the only group of armchair theologians in a forum - out there.
Priests and Bishops are good folks to talk to in instances of health. But i dont know what all the particulars there are - you could have directed the discussions to the priest.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Why are you assuming I didn't direct my concerns to a priest, WA? My wife and I did indeed.

That was one issue. We don't buy into NFP or the full conclusions of Humane Vitae, not something I want to debate. But the fact is, papal supremeacy, papal infallibility, indulgences, purgatory, circular reasoning, inconsistency, and yes stuff like NFP and scandals and especially the horrendous Novus Ordo disaster liturgy in my area, those were all reasons we left. NFP and my wife's near-death stuff were but one area where I was lambasted and mocked.

And, no offense, but the idea that the Republican Party is the Party of Jesus and the Catholic Church, that was another concern. I was so sick of Tea Party Neo-Con rhetoric, blew me away how that rules CAF.

I suppose your group has no scandals whatsoever? And then you throw out a lot of catch-phrases that mean exactly nothing, unless you say exactly why they pushed you away. For example, you cite Papal Infallibility...in what way does the Pope being infallible push you out the door? I tell you, personally, once I knew where Jesus was, nothing could tear me away. None of what you mention, anyway. It wouldn't matter a whit if I know that I'm with Jesus when I attend Mass.

FWIW, who said the Republican Party is the party of Jesus??? Or the Catholic Church? The fact is that the Republican Party platform is more pro-religion, but that doesn't make them any better, as a group.

I'm not speaking here of CAF. I have an account there, but haven't been in months.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

Why are you assuming I didn't direct my concerns to a priest, WA? My wife and I did indeed.

That was one issue. We don't buy into NFP or the full conclusions of Humane Vitae, not something I want to debate. But the fact is, papal supremeacy, papal infallibility, indulgences, purgatory, circular reasoning, inconsistency, and yes stuff like NFP and scandals and especially the horrendous Novus Ordo disaster liturgy in my area, those were all reasons we left. NFP and my wife's near-death stuff were but one area where I was lambasted and mocked.

And, no offense, but the idea that the Republican Party is the Party of Jesus and the Catholic Church, that was another concern. I was so sick of Tea Party Neo-Con rhetoric, blew me away how that rules CAF.

I suppose your group has no scandals whatsoever? And then you throw out a lot of catch-phrases that mean exactly nothing, unless you say exactly why they pushed you away. For example, you cite Papal Infallibility...in what way does the Pope being infallible push you out the door? I tell you, personally, once I knew where Jesus was, nothing could tear me away. None of what you mention, anyway. It wouldn't matter a whit if I know that I'm with Jesus when I attend Mass.

FWIW, who said the Republican Party is the party of Jesus??? Or the Catholic Church? The fact is that the Republican Party platform is more pro-religion, but that doesn't make them any better, as a group.

I'm not speaking here of CAF. I have an account there, but haven't been in months.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well I'm not going to debate you, Jesse, out of respect for this good subforum and your faith. I will not "go there." But I will say your post presupposes that I went against my conscience believing that I was walking away from the True Church. That couldn't be further from the truth, brother. I felt and do now feel in my bones and soul and intellect that Orthodoxy is the true Church. The original patriarchate, the pentarchy, was the True Church, and that the Popes entered into Schism from the Church. I believe Catholicism is schismatic, otherwise I'd be with ya right now as a full member, no problem. And I said that scandals were "one" problem I had, not "the" problem. Papal infallibility, supremacy, those are the two biggest ideas that, imho, are modern contrivances and false, so I cannot in good conscience declare them.

As far as being with Jesus at Mass, well, I'm with Him at Divine Liturgy every Sunday. complete with incense, the priest facing the altar, the blessed Theotokos invoked constantly, saying Lord Have Mercy 40 times, standing the entire time, taking the antidiron, and praying an intensely deep, powerful manner of worship that has truly transformed me. My spiritual life is not legalistic, it's deeper and more awesome than anything I've felt in my 37 years. Seven sacraments, the ancient faith, deeply-based on the teachings of the Fathers, changing my life. I'm home, man.

In fact, I'll be in charge, thanks to my priest, of starting an Orthodox church in my town in the next year or so, God willing.

As far as the Republican stuff, you know full well how many hardcore Tea Party folks on CAF believe that the Republican Party is a few feet from heaven's mandate....never claimed you think that, bro, but it's a common sentiment. It's not as common on CF here at OBOB, but at CAF, it's the dogma LOL

I suppose your group has no scandals whatsoever? And then you throw out a lot of catch-phrases that mean exactly nothing, unless you say exactly why they pushed you away. For example, you cite Papal Infallibility...in what way does the Pope being infallible push you out the door? I tell you, personally, once I knew where Jesus was, nothing could tear me away. None of what you mention, anyway. It wouldn't matter a whit if I know that I'm with Jesus when I attend Mass.

FWIW, who said the Republican Party is the party of Jesus??? Or the Catholic Church? The fact is that the Republican Party platform is more pro-religion, but that doesn't make them any better, as a group.

I'm not speaking here of CAF. I have an account there, but haven't been in months.

 

[Castaway57]

Why are you denouncing an integral truth?
Even St John says - pray not for sins unto death - but pray for sins not unto death.
Mortal means - death. A mortal sin means a sin that will lead to death of the second life which is hell. It is a fact.

And a very old fact.

And it is most appreciated that our ancient doctrines are not ridiculed in OBOB.

--
I want to respect forum rules here, so I thought I would just mention something that I like/agree with.

The idea of "mortal sin" is Biblical, and I appreciate any church that is not afraid to say something is wrong, or that something is sin. Too many today will not call sin by it's right name.

May I ask a clarification question on this area of Catholic belief?

Are "mortal sins" in Catholic beliefs, the same thing as "the unpardonable sin" as mentioned in scripture?

 

[Needing_Grace]

--
I want to respect forum rules here, so I thought I would just mention something that I like/agree with.

The idea of "mortal sin" is Biblical, and I appreciate any church that is not afraid to say something is wrong, or that something is sin. Too many today will not call sin by it's right name.

May I ask a clarification question on this area of Catholic belief?

Are "mortal sins" in Catholic beliefs, the same thing as "the unpardonable sin" as mentioned in scripture?

No, but they can lead to it.

The unpardonable sin, aka Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is also known as "final impenitence." In other words, the door is always open for one to repent and be reconciled to God up until the moment of death.

Mortal sins are transgressions involving grave moral matter, full knowledge and willful intent. While they are always forgivable in sacramental confession, anyone who refuses to go to confession and dies impenitent ultimately has committed the unpardonable sin.

 

[MoreCoffee]

No, but they can lead to it.

The unpardonable sin, aka Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is also known as "final impenitence." In other words, the door is always open for one to repent and be reconciled to God up until the moment of death.

Mortal sins are transgressions involving grave moral matter, full knowledge and willful intent. While they are always forgivable in sacramental confession, anyone who refuses to go to confession and dies impenitent ultimately has committed the unpardonable sin.

A good answer, and well stated. The unpardonable sin is the mortal sin for which one is never repentant. Other sins are forgiven because of Jesus' saving work and the mercy of God, but when one sins and knows that one has sinned but cannot bring one's self to repent before God then that sin will remain to separate one from God for eternity.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Good answers above.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Modern indeed.



The Norman Conquest (1066) wrought no change in the religion of England. St. Anselm of Canterbury (1093-1109) testified to the supremacy of the Roman Pontiff in his writings (in Matthew 16) and by his acts. When pressed to surrender his right of appeal to Rome, he answered the king in court:

You wish me to swear never, on any account, to appeal in England to Blessed Peter or his Vicar; this, I say, ought not to be commanded by you, who are a Christian, for to swear this is to abjure Blessed Peter; he who abjures Blessed Peter undoubtedly abjures Christ, who made him Prince over his Church.
​

 

[WarriorAngel]

Interesting ppl suggest semantics is what makes the Church the Church. Incense, which way the priest at the altar faces, and so forth..
When it is the teachings [of the teacher over all the Church - see St Chrysostom] - through the Chair of the Prince of the Church - St Peter's Chair alone was given over the whole Church.

'Confirm thy brethren...' ~ Jesus Christ to Peter.
[Confirm means to teach his brethren - his Apostle brethren] As seen with St Clement l.

If one believes this was the Church for many years and suddenly disagrees - as did Tertullian in his time tho at one time orthodox - over one facet they decide [personal opinion] is no longer something they can ascribe to - faith is shaken so as to deny the role St Peter and his Chair which had been continuously remarked upon throughout every age as the Prince of the Church and Teacher over all.

It is not that there is one single quote from one father of pious opinion - but boat loads of quotes that give Peter's Chair the pre-eminence over the Church.

Though i find no compelling argument against the role of the Pope - and I have read just about everything i could on this subject - though admittedly - there are always more fathers i find standing behind the Papal jurisdiction over the whole Church, I am hard pressed to read - [aside from heretics who would even exile Popes for not agreeing to their heresies] - any single conclusion that usurps the role of Peter from the office from good standing Saints and early Catholics of the East or West.

Somehow when one begins to deny those quotes as mere opinion although that is what makes up history and tradition of the Church - and not one time but many times this idea of his Chair being the role of the Church in place of Christ, through out history - it takes a decided choice to deny a major part of where the Church is [as Peter's Chair is teacher] - even a huge stretch to ignore the many - all the way back from St Clement l and St Ignatius to deny the over seeing from the Roman Pontiff.

And although one cannot debate in here - my post is solely food for thought.
The Lord left His truth for us to see... not one time, but many times through pious Saints writings in all of history - that His chosen son to lead His Church - who was given keys - didnt end when Peter ended.

 

[WarriorAngel]

This is just something of interest.


Orientation

The custom of praying with faces turned towards the East is probably as old as Christianity. The earliest allusion to it in Christian literature is in the second book of the Apostolic Constitutions (200-250, probably) which prescribes that a church should be oblong "with its head to the East". Tertullian also speaks of churches as erected in "high and open places, and facing the light (Adv. Valent., iii). The reason for this practice, which did not originate with Christianity, was given by St. Gregory of Nyssa (De Orat. Dominic., P.G., XLIV, 1183), is that the Orient is the first home of the human race, the seat of the earthly paradise. In the Middle Ages additional reasons for orientation were given, namely, that Our Lord from the Cross looked towards the West, and from the East He shall come for the Last Judgment (Durand, Rationale, V, 2; St. Thomas, Summa Theologica II-II:84:3). The existence of the custom among pagans is referred to by Clement of Alexandria, who states that their "most ancient temples looked towards the West, that people might be taught to turn to the East when facing the images" (Stromata, vii. 17, 43). The form of orientation which in the Middle Ages was generally adopted consisted in placing the apse and altar in the Eastern end of the basilica. A system of orientation exactly the opposite of this was adopted in the basilicas of the age of Constantine. The Lateran, St. Peter's, St. Paul's, and San Lorenzo in Rome, as well as the Basilicas of Tyre and Antioch and the Church of the Resurrection at Jerusalem, had their apses facing the West.
Thus, in these cases the bishop from his throne in the apse looked towards the East. At Rome the second Basilica of St. Paul, erected in 389, and the Basilica of San Pietro in Vincoli, erected probably in the latter half of the fourth century reversed this order and complied with the rule. The Eastern apse is the rule also in the churches of Ravenna, and generally throughout the East. Whether this form of orientation exercised any influence on the change of the celebrant from the back to the front of the altar cannot well be determined but at all events this custom gradually supplanted the older one, and it became the rule for both priest and people to look in the same direction, namely, towards the East (Mabillon, Museum Italicum, ii, 9). Strict adherence to either form of orientation was, necessarily, in many instances impossible, the direction of streets in cities naturally governed the position of churches. Some of the most ancient churches of Rome were directed towards various points of the compass.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: History of the Christian Altar

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well I'm not going to debate you, Jesse, out of respect for this good subforum and your faith. I will not "go there." But I will say your post presupposes that I went against my conscience believing that I was walking away from the True Church. That couldn't be further from the truth, brother. I felt and do now feel in my bones and soul and intellect that Orthodoxy is the true Church. The original patriarchate, the pentarchy, was the True Church, and that the Popes entered into Schism from the Church. I believe Catholicism is schismatic, otherwise I'd be with ya right now as a full member, no problem. And I said that scandals were "one" problem I had, not "the" problem. Papal infallibility, supremacy, those are the two biggest ideas that, imho, are modern contrivances and false, so I cannot in good conscience declare them.

As far as being with Jesus at Mass, well, I'm with Him at Divine Liturgy every Sunday. complete with incense, the priest facing the altar, the blessed Theotokos invoked constantly, saying Lord Have Mercy 40 times, standing the entire time, taking the antidiron, and praying an intensely deep, powerful manner of worship that has truly transformed me. My spiritual life is not legalistic, it's deeper and more awesome than anything I've felt in my 37 years. Seven sacraments, the ancient faith, deeply-based on the teachings of the Fathers, changing my life. I'm home, man.

In fact, I'll be in charge, thanks to my priest, of starting an Orthodox church in my town in the next year or so, God willing.

As far as the Republican stuff, you know full well how many hardcore Tea Party folks on CAF believe that the Republican Party is a few feet from heaven's mandate....never claimed you think that, bro, but it's a common sentiment. It's not as common on CF here at OBOB, but at CAF, it's the dogma LOL

I don't presuppose anything about anyone here. But you stated some of your objections to the Catholic Church, and I just asked if there have never been scandals in yours? Then I suggested that you tossed out some catch-phrases which mean very little until you explain what you have against those particular issues.

Well, I don't know anyone who holds the GOP up that high, and being one, I'm rather disgusted with them. I'm conservative, politically, but I know that there used to be conservative Democrats in office, and that the Party of the Donkey really likes to put God on a back-burner, whether or not people agree with that. But I think the Speaker of the House is a wimp, with little or no bone in his back, and that the GOP doesn't do enough regarding life issues. Personally, I like fiscal conservatism that allows us enough of our hard-earned money to give to charity to take care of the poor. It's hard when you need two incomes in a home in order to climb over the tax requirements, and that discourages charitable giving on the part of families. But I haven't seen real fiscal conservatism in about 12 years. Maybe longer.

 

[Elysium]

can we not do this here?
copy pasting the same old arguements doesnt do anything and you arent being heroic or h;elpful

anyway you ask gurney what he thought
he told you
now you want to jump on him for it
thats not charitable
(and dont say its not charitable to let him be orthodox)
hes not stupid and hes researched his heart out so he knows all the copypastas your throwing at him

anyway this was azbout CAF
not gurneys faith choices

 

[zaida]

I had to leave CAF because it was depressing me and not helping me in my journey towards the Catholic faith at all. I just found, not 100 percent, but often, "charity" was forgotten on that board. Now, saying that, I want to be charitable to the members, and I do hope those who present in a very judgmental way can learn the errors of their ways just as I hope I learn the error of my ways in whatever way I need to!

 

[Needing_Grace]

I had to leave CAF because it was depressing me and not helping me in my journey towards the Catholic faith at all. I just found, not 100 percent, but often, "charity" was forgotten on that board. Now, saying that, I want to be charitable to the members, and I do hope those who present in a very judgmental way can learn the errors of their ways just as I hope I learn the error of my ways in whatever way I need to!

Based on my experience, charity is a vice and rude nastiness is a virtue on CAF.

Frankly, I'd say that CAF and people who act like that are responsible for many losing their fath. I know that my experience on CAF deeply injured my faith. There are several here, holy and perfect Living Saints, who don't help. In fact their actions are pushing me towards atheism.

Sent from my iPhone using CF