- Jul 5, 2005
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Let me be clear and say that none of this is my "opinion" or "speculation." This is what I've been taught the last 20 years when I first became a Christian at 19. In my Christian bubble, I had no idea these other teachings existed and I'm now questioning what I was taught before.That would be Paul's Man of Sin/Son of Perdition. A completely separate and distinct entity from John's 'antichrist". There is not even one scripture that teaches these two Biblical personalities are the same entity. Not even one.
So Peter could also be Paul then? Matthew could be Luke? James could be John?
We ought not place speculation above what scripture actually teaches. I hope we can agree on that.
Now, if you know of any scripture that teaches Pauls MoS and John's antichrist are the same entity, I'm all eyes...
Wow.... again, the scripture you are referring to SAYS nothing of the sort. You appear to be adding things to that scripture based on your opinion/speculation.
Here it is:
2 Thessalonians 3-8
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
I see you make the additional, extra biblical assumption that the "he who now restrains" is the Holy Spirit, but you are absolutely incorrect to claim "the Bible SAYS" it. Scripture does not elaborate on who/what the restrainer is. I think it’s dangerous to add our assumptions to what scripture does not teach, Especially if you’re going to add “thus says the lord” at the end of your speculation.
Also, you say the Bible SAYS "he WILL BE suppressed". Notice that the scripture SAYS he was "already at work" and was being "now restrained" - this was not future to Paul and the Thessalonians. It is clear from the passage itself that Paul is referencing an event taking place in his day, as an already alive, fully grown MAN, Was at that time being restrained from his takeover of the then standing temple.
I think you might benefit from taking a step back and really looking at what the actual scriptures SAY instead of merely parroting what you've been taught they say.
Yes. They are either Converts themselves or descendants of Gentile Converts to the Post Christian, man made religion of the Talmud. They have no relationship to the pre desolation Hebrews. Not genetically, not politically and not religiously.
You and I are in 100% agreement on that point.
The reason why I am questioning is that it seems obvious that the disciples expected the time of the end to happen soon and in their lifetime and Nero and others fit the bill as this 'antichrist' figure. But I guess my biggest question now is where we are on that tribulation timeline if everything happened 2,000 years ago? Not all of Revelation has been fulfilled yet, which tells me the end times weren't in 70 AD, but still to come. (I guess that part is my speculation, but no one really knows, not even Christ knew.)
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