I'm not saved.

[Krillin]

This might be kind of long, but please bear with me...

If by the odd chance that I am saved, I'm sure God will guide me to assurance.

I love the people here, so I really wanted to get this out - lest I be a hypocrite.

You see, I very closely fit the description of someone mentioned in Hebrews 6. That is, having experienced a saved-like state that may have even involved some repentance, but fell away, and is now "impossible to restore to repentance". I mean, how would you go about life if you knew that Hell was inevitable?

I always talked about how I would struggle with lust on here, but looking back I think it may simply have been that I loved my sin more than God.

So here I am. I don't know if I fear Hell or if I fear not being with God. I don't even know what to pray right now... "Dear God, I really enjoy my sin more than I enjoy you, and I fear Hell more than I do you. Could you help me with that?" It just sounds a bit ridiculous.

If I did just up and run back to Christ, how would I know that this repentance was any different than my last supposed repentance? I pray and pray, but it just doesn't do anything. God does what he wants; I can't move him. If he wants to leave me to burn in Hell then it's on me, and I rightly deserve it. I'm just hoping he leads me to a place of brokenness where I completely lose myself and see him for who he truly is.

I can believe that Jesus died for sinners. I can believe he died for each one of you reading this, no matter how terrible your past has been. But I just can't seem to grasp the idea that maybe Jesus put his life down for me as well. I hear it, and understand it. But it's like my heart doesn't get it. It keeps thinking that there must be SOMETHING I have to bring to the table for God to save me. I know that isn't true, but as soon as you mention Jesus dying for me, my heart and mind just won't settle for it.

I want to cry, but I can't. I want to call out to God, but I don't know what I'd say. I want to cling to the cross, but I just don't think its for me. It's a great sense of pride that I just can't shake.


I can't bring myself to discuss this with anyone. Not with my parents, my friends, the girl I'm seeing, my pastor, my church - no one. Why I'm able to share it with this site (which I sort of consider a second church to me), I'm not sure. And I'm not quite sure what I'm even asking for here. I guess I just wanted you all to know what was going on, and do some venting in the process.

I really don't know what's going to come of me. In a way I'm terrified. And in another way, I'm indifferent as if to say "well, there's nothing I can do anyhow."

But thank you for reading. The people of this site are amazing - really.

I love you all.

 

[jesuslover94]

I don't really have any advice, but I kind of know what you're going through. Last year I got involved in sin, and I knew it was wrong. But I was so foolish and kept doing it, deliberately too. Or maybe I didn't try to ask God to get me out of it. I figured I could just repent later. Stupid of me I know; I regret it so much. I wasn't even a prodigal, I was still spending time with God. But yet it seems like I didn't even care. I'm such a wicked person. I just wanted you to know all that, because I'm in the same boat sort of. Take care.

 

[Krillin]

I don't really have any advice, but I kind of know what you're going through. Last year I got involved in sin, and I knew it was wrong. But I was so foolish and kept doing it, deliberately too. Or maybe I didn't try to ask God to get me out of it. I figured I could just repent later. Stupid of me I know; I regret it so much. I wasn't even a prodigal, I was still spending time with God. But yet it seems like I didn't even care. I'm such a wicked person. I just wanted you to know all that, because I'm in the same boat sort of. Take care.

This didn't come to mind until you posted this, but I think something that might give us some hope is studying intensely Isaiah 57:14-21.

Again, as I stated in my OP, I often get the sense that this verse just doesn't apply to me. I wish I could get it through my head and heart, but I just can't. It'll take an act of God to do that. But I digress - maybe this passage will do you some good.

 

[orangeness365]

Just keep repenting and praying. I pray for God to take me to heaven and forgive me of all my sins everyday and to keep me from hell. I think after a thousand times God will listen and send his son to die on the cross for everyone, er, yeah that already happened If Jesus asks everyone to forgive their brethren 77 upon 7 times, how much perfect and forgiving Jesus is capable of being. He is God after all. If you're worried about it, focus on being as forgiving you're hoping God will be to you, and then some.

 

[godenver1]

I know that a common name for you know who is 'the deceiver'

What if this is what it is and you're falling hook line and sinker?

Ecclesiastes 1:18
For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief

Through these trials we can come to God. And beleive me when I say I know what's it like to feel as though God doesn't love you or you're excluded, but guess what? It's just that, feelings. Through my expieriences God is there, was there and will be. Call out to Him!

 

[amenkid777]

I was going to say the same thing. Satan might be trying to make you think this.

 

[Krillin]

I know that a common name for you know who is 'the deceiver'

What if this is what it is and you're falling hook line and sinker?

Ecclesiastes 1:18
For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief

Through these trials we can come to God. And beleive me when I say I know what's it like to feel as though God doesn't love you or you're excluded, but guess what? It's just that, feelings. Through my expieriences God is there, was there and will be. Call out to Him!

But it also includes observations. I mean sure there was a time when I would have been heartbroken had I sinned, but then it got to where I was using God's grace as an excuse to sin - and enjoy it. Looking, back, maybe there's always been some remorse over my sin but it wasn't enough to keep me from it. My life has not reflected the regenerate nature that a true Christian's life should.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

What you are describing, as I understand it, is the sin Christ talked about as unpardonable. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit. That is the kind of person who tastes salvation and then walks away, not by accident, but by choice. It is the Holy Spirit that leads to repentance. Therefore cutting off that avenue leaves the person with no chance of redemption, not because God wants it that way, not because the sin is more powerful than God's ability to forgive, but because the person no longer cares enough to ask forgiveness. This isn't something that can be done casually or unwittingly. The person has to knowingly walk away from God's kingdom, fully aware of everything that is at stake, and never look back. If that person DID look back, and DID repent, God would eagerly forgive and accept that person back into His kingdom--but that person simply doesn't want to, and so won't ask.

I don't think anyone who would even wonder about it is at the point of not caring anymore. Therefore, I don't think you meet that criteria, since you started this post. However, the devil's job is to steal, kill, and destroy. The devil wants you to think you're beyond God's reach because he hates God, and he hates you. He may even be tricking you into *thinking* you don't care, so you'll believe you're beyond salvation, but if you actually didn't care, you wouldn't have brought the subject up.

 

[amenkid777]

Didn't you say recently on this board that you have been a Christian about 6 months?

 

[orangeness365]

but you want to repent now right? some sins are hard to give up. nobody is perfect. we should all try to perfect, but nobody is. At least you care that you sinned. Even in the Old Testament God is forgiving.

Numbers 14:18
English Standard Version
‘The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’

Ezekiel 18:21-23 But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?




Luke 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.




2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.


To be honest, I worry that I'm going to hell too everyday now, cuz I haven't done much to repent except stop and cry a little. I just don't feel like it's enough.

 

[Krillin]

Didn't you say recently on this board that you have been a Christian about 6 months?

Yes, I did say that.

But upon examining my life, and comparing it to what a true Christian life should be, I think I very well may have been a false convert.

 

[orangeness365]

well then it's time to become a true convert

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

PS. I don't know the details, and I could be wrong about this, but there is a possibility that the "sin" you're trying to repent of may not be a sin at all. For example, some people have interpreted "be anxious for nothing," Philippians 4:6-7, as saying anxiety is a sin. Or they may condemn themselves based on Galatians 5:22-23, in which joy is cited as a fruit of the spirit, and think if they are experiencing depression, they have sinned. Still others think normal sex drive, or getting angry when provoked, are the sins of lust and wrath. You might want to examine yourself and see if you're really sinning, before you decide you're unrepentant.

And if you only became a Christian six months ago, you are still a babe in Christ. Would you expect a six-month-old baby to be running a marathon? Most of them are still crawling at that age, if even that.

 

[godenver1]

Yes, I did say that.

But upon examining my life, and comparing it to what a true Christian life should be, I think I very well may have been a false convert.

Justification and Sanctification | Comparing Justification and Sanctification | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

6 months isn't a long time, friend.

Romans 10:9

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[amenkid777]

Yes, I did say that.

But upon examining my life, and comparing it to what a true Christian life should be, I think I very well may have been a false convert.

Well, you should definitely examine yourself. And I think you should find a good pastor to talk to and see what he says about it.

But, I also wanted to say, it was kind of like this for me when I first got saved. I know I was born-again, but did not have the wisdom and knowledge of a more seasoned Christian. I really had zero knowledge. So it was easy for the enemy to deceive me and make me wonder about my salvation. And it took a little while for me to see even the beginning of any fruit. I really had to, when it seemed like I may not have had a relationship with God, to keep seeking Him. This is why I say it may be the devil deceiving you. And seeking for me at the time did not mean a whole lot of stuff. It was very little compared to what I could have been doing. But that was because I did not have a whole lot of understanding. Not only that, but I was very messed up at the time. God had to do a huge work in my life. I felt extremely far from the Lord and still had a ton of sin in my life.

Also, at the beginning of my salvation experience, God, I felt Him there in a very powerful way. But then there came a time near-after - I would say - about 4-5 months after being saved, that He backed off, and I think that meant, He wanted me to seek Him, instead of it being all Him, and Him feeding me like I was a baby, answering my prayers really quick, treating me like a Christian who couldn't quite care for themselves quite yet. He wanted me to mature. He wanted me to pursue Him. What I am saying is, maybe God is backing off a little bit because He wants you to come after Him now. Always remember, your feelings can deceive you. Of course, examine yourself, but don't quit seeking God. It takes a little while for Him to even put the desire in you to seek Him and be godly at all. Don't quit seeking Him.

I would suggest keep going to church. Try to seek God every day. Pray to God to give you wisdom and understanding. Find someone face-to-face to talk about it with and pray about it with. Like a good pastor. Make sure it is a good pastor though. Try to meet with them once a week.

 

[EazyMack]

God = conviction.

Satan = condemnation.

 

[achristian2]

Yes, I did say that.

But upon examining my life, and comparing it to what a true Christian life should be, I think I very well may have been a false convert.

Hey Krillin,

The Christian walk is a lifelong process. Some people changed dramatically and immediately once they became saved. Some changed very little initially etc. There's a whole long list of variations on how people 'changed' . There are actually a number of people that are saved but feel they were not because of how little they 'changed' or could not get rid of certain sins etc. Sometimes it takes them years before they realized they were saved so long ago. The devil too tries to confuse us and inject thoughts and emotions into us (making us think that these are our emotions and thoughts) that we are not saved or we commit the unpardonable sin. There was once elsewhere somebody wrote about him maybe not being saved as he changed/struggled so little for years and asked for help. Then came numerous reponses from different people sharing their different experiences and he learned that it was not always the case that someone changed easily/fast once they are saved. May this encourage you.


The solution is to trust what the bible says, that is if we repent and believe in God, we are saved. Continue to pray to God to change you and give him the assurance that you are a child. There will come a time when God will reveal this to you, we just need to be patient in this (yeah, its hard to be patient--its certainly not my strong suite).

The Christian life is a journey, not an end point. You have just begun. When you have these doubts, just put your head down and plough on in the Christian faith, trying to do God's will. Every time you fall, ask God to help you get back up and improve. Slowly, you will find yourself growing. Sometimes we take 2 steps forward and 1 step backward, then 3 steps forward, and 5 steps backward. But over a long period of our lives, we will find that we are moving forward in Christ as long as we don't give up.

 

[aiki]

You see, I very closely fit the description of someone mentioned in Hebrews 6. That is, having experienced a saved-like state that may have even involved some repentance, but fell away, and is now "impossible to restore to repentance". I mean, how would you go about life if you knew that Hell was inevitable?

With God all things are possible - even bringing you to a place of genuine repentance and salvation. You aren't the first person to have heard the truth and responded poorly to it. You won't be the last. But God is far greater than your weak and corrupt heart and "He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2Pe. 3:9) Hell is not inevitable; it is not your certain destiny.

I always talked about how I would struggle with lust on here, but looking back I think it may simply have been that I loved my sin more than God.

This is always fundamentally the reason anyone sins. That you recognize this is a big step in the right direction.

So here I am. I don't know if I fear Hell or if I fear not being with God. I don't even know what to pray right now... "Dear God, I really enjoy my sin more than I enjoy you, and I fear Hell more than I do you. Could you help me with that?" It just sounds a bit ridiculous.

Nonetheless, it is the truth of the matter and your "ridiculous prayer" applies to exactly the right Source for help. In fact, this is the only prayer that makes sense. You can only reproduce more of yourself; only God can form in you the character of His Son. Insofar as being like Christ is concerned, we are totally bankrupt of the power - and even the desire - to abandon our Self and be conformed to Christ's image. If God does not do as He says He does in His Word and work in us both the ability and desire to do His will (Phil. 2:13), we will remain kept and corrupted by our own selfish, sinful nature.

If I did just up and run back to Christ, how would I know that this repentance was any different than my last supposed repentance? I pray and pray, but it just doesn't do anything. God does what he wants; I can't move him. If he wants to leave me to burn in Hell then it's on me, and I rightly deserve it. I'm just hoping he leads me to a place of brokenness where I completely lose myself and see him for who he truly is.

Oh, if only more Christians would get to this place! You cannot break yourself. Only God can do so. You have it exactly right that it is all up to God to do in you what you are unable to do for yourself. And He will. Wait on Him.

John 15:5
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do NOTHING. (Emphasis mine.)

I can believe that Jesus died for sinners. I can believe he died for each one of you reading this, no matter how terrible your past has been. But I just can't seem to grasp the idea that maybe Jesus put his life down for me as well. I hear it, and understand it. But it's like my heart doesn't get it. It keeps thinking that there must be SOMETHING I have to bring to the table for God to save me. I know that isn't true, but as soon as you mention Jesus dying for me, my heart and mind just won't settle for it.

The real problem is your Self, your old Adamic nature, the "old man" as the apostle Paul called it, that has to be put to death. (see Ro. 6) This is where the feeling comes from that you must do something, that you must contribute to your own redemption. But you cannot. What's more, you cannot make yourself humble enough to receive salvation as the gift that it is. God must work in you your salvation. It is all Him and none of you. This is how it is for all who are truly born-again.

It's a great sense of pride that I just can't shake.

Which is why God must act to break it for you. And He will. Keep asking Him to work in you despite what you may feel.

Ephesians 2:4-7
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

God is rich in mercy toward you and loves you with a great love. It is God and God alone who saves, who will quicken, or make alive, all who are dead in trespasses and sins. His desire for you is that you might be seated with Christ in heavenly places and experience the riches of His grace. This is God's will for you, not an eternity in hell. Throw yourself upon His mercy and grace. Depend utterly upon Him. As you do, He will make you the person He wants you to be.

Selah.

 

[Philpy1976]

Krillin

God saw/knew everything you will ever do BEFORE He went to the cross!

Grace means undeserved favour.
If you actually deserved it, it would no longer be grace.

Pray that prayer, nothing silly about it at all, He already knows it is true, He doesn't need fancy words and some ordained structure to prayer, He wants you to confide in Him.

None of us deserve to be going anywhere other than hell.

Praise the living God for His grace!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Krillin,

Some absolutely wonderful advice here. I would suggest you read and re-read it all, and try to take it to heart.

I also experienced something similar to Amenkid. I actually had a drastic change at the point I cried out to God, so I shouldn't have been able to doubt. Yet even so, God backed off after some time, and I found at least three places in the Bible (one is the one you mention) that managed to condemn me to the point of doubting my salvation. I strongly suspect it is the enemy causing you to doubt.

If you were lost without hope of redemption, I don't think you would be caring. You are actually not in a bad place. I know it's not comfortable, but you are understanding a lot of truth. It's not always easy to deal with sin - look at how much Paul talks about struggling. But ... God IS faithful and just to forgive us. He desires ALL to be saved. You know the Bible doesn't lie? All includes you. And the fact that you care, and that you do believe Jesus died for sinners ... like I said, you're in a good place.

And you know what? I would pray that prayer EXACTLY if that is how you feel. Never be afraid to be honest with God. You know that He knows your heart even better than you do anyway? You're not going to surprise Him.

I wouldn't be surprised if He is looking for you to work harder at pursuing Him. We all walk different paths, and His desire is to work in you to complete your salvation. He knows each one of us, what we need to get there, and how to teach us. I can almost guarantee that there is something for you to learn here. It is not always comfortable - in fact we often suffer great angst in some of our growth - but in the end we come forth tried as gold. It will be worth it.

Keep on keeping on, don't be afraid to talk to your pastor if you trust him (though a few denominations may see things a little differently). I agree 6 months makes you a very new Christian - I have known many to go through what you are describing. Seek God, stay on the path, pray and ask for that assurance you desire, but keep seeking Him in other ways too, because I don't know exactly what He is teaching you here. But He knows, and if you persevere, you will learn the lesson more quickly, and move into a more enjoyable phase of your Christian walk. Until the next uncomfortable bit comes along. I don't mean this to be discouraging. There are WONDERFUL peaks along the way, but there will always be valleys too. We all experience this, it is part of how we grow, and it is more than worth it.

Be blessed, my brother (and yes, I believe you ARE a brother!)