I'm not saved.

[contango]

OP, without going over all the names that have been mentioned (partly because I can't be bothered to list them all and partly because I don't want to imply I agree or disagree with any of them in particular), you've no doubt noticed a lot of disagreement in here over who preaches truth and who does not.

Being faced with a list of some people saying Pastor Joe Blow is a great guy who preaches solidly from Scripture, and list of other people saying Pastor Joe Blow preaches some other gospel that is false and providing reasons they think he is a false teacher, it's easy to see why a new Christian like yourself would be confused. After all, Pastor Joe can't be simultaneously speaking truth and falsehood, so who is right?

The way to find out is to test what he says against Scripture. At present your understanding of Scripture is probably very limited so don't be afraid to put things into the "not sure yet" pile - don't feel you have to specifically agree or disagree with ideas, and don't feel you have to specifically accept or reject specific teachers. Sometimes it seems people are expected to either agree wholeheartedly with someone or give good reasons why they disagree. There's no reason why you have to take a stance at all if you're not sure, and it's perfectly possible to agree with some of what someone says while disagreeing with other parts. The primary exception to that is that if a teacher teaches something that appears to disagree with Scripture I would personally reject that teaching and anything else that builds upon it. If you were looking for lessons in mathematics and found a teacher who couldn't add up you wouldn't overlook their lack of basic skills and accept tuition from them on something more advanced.

As you get to know Scripture better you'll start to get a better idea of the message of Scripture. Be careful of teachers who will use a verse here and a verse there to support the case they are trying to make - read the verses people are using and read the context as well. The message of Scripture is one thing but by cherry-pickng a verse here and a verse there all sorts of silly theories can be apparently supported with Scripture.

For example if we take Job 22:28 and ignore the context we read "You will also declare a thing, And it will be established for you; So light will shine on your ways." This looks great, we can declare something and it will happen. Awesome stuff! The trouble is the context just doesn't support this viewpoint - if we read the chapter we see that these aren't the words of God at all - Job 22:1 says "Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said:". So the words about declaring something came from Eliphaz, not from God. So people who stand on Job 22:28 are expecting God to honour the words spoken by a mortal man. That alone is standing on shaky ground but it gets worse - roll forward to the end of the book of Job and we see in Job 42:7-8: And so it was, after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. (8) Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has." So not only are people who stand on Job 22:28 taking the verse out of context, they are apparently expecting God to honour the words spoken by a man who was subsequently rebuked by God for what he said.

It's very easy to get caught up in reading this author or that author, so much so that you spend lots of time reading about the Bible and reading man's opinion of what the Bible means, and little to no time actually reading the Bible itself.

As a very rough-and-ready guide I'd say be very careful of any teaching that denies the deity of Christ, any teaching that draws attention away from Christ, anything that requires blind faith in the teacher (if a teacher says you don't need to test what they preach, ask why they are afraid of being tested because anything that is true will withstand testing), and any teacher who suggests their word trumps Scripture.

 

[achristian2]

Tpetery,

Joel Osteen is false--he's not a man of God. Do you think I just base on Larry King. And BTW, I've attended several of Joseph Prince's sermons way before he was famous--and even at that time I was not saved then, I already felt something was wrong there.

As I do not wish to argue with you, I will just leave it as that instead of continuing further.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

MOD HAT ON

Christian Advice is not an area set up for debate. Please confine your answers to addressing the OP.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[achristian2]

I've always loved Charles Stanley and John Piper. John Piper especially.

That's good to hear. Not sure whether you saw my post on this thread/sticky (under deeper fellowship section) by Leastone. Its a very good thread and will help anyone in their walk with Christ and to understand the struggles they have. I'm going to attach it here again in case you missed the earlier post. Read Leastone posts. As you keep reading each of his post, you will find it easier to understand what is going on in your life and what you must do. I really hope this will help you.

Growing in Christ
http://www.christianforums.com/t65951/

 

[~Anastasia~]

OP, without going over all the names that have been mentioned (partly because I can't be bothered to list them all and partly because I don't want to imply I agree or disagree with any of them in particular), you've no doubt noticed a lot of disagreement in here over who preaches truth and who does not.

Being faced with a list of some people saying Pastor Joe Blow is a great guy who preaches solidly from Scripture, and list of other people saying Pastor Joe Blow preaches some other gospel that is false and providing reasons they think he is a false teacher, it's easy to see why a new Christian like yourself would be confused. After all, Pastor Joe can't be simultaneously speaking truth and falsehood, so who is right?

The way to find out is to test what he says against Scripture. At present your understanding of Scripture is probably very limited so don't be afraid to put things into the "not sure yet" pile - don't feel you have to specifically agree or disagree with ideas, and don't feel you have to specifically accept or reject specific teachers. Sometimes it seems people are expected to either agree wholeheartedly with someone or give good reasons why they disagree. There's no reason why you have to take a stance at all if you're not sure, and it's perfectly possible to agree with some of what someone says while disagreeing with other parts. The primary exception to that is that if a teacher teaches something that appears to disagree with Scripture I would personally reject that teaching and anything else that builds upon it. If you were looking for lessons in mathematics and found a teacher who couldn't add up you wouldn't overlook their lack of basic skills and accept tuition from them on something more advanced.

As you get to know Scripture better you'll start to get a better idea of the message of Scripture. Be careful of teachers who will use a verse here and a verse there to support the case they are trying to make - read the verses people are using and read the context as well. The message of Scripture is one thing but by cherry-pickng a verse here and a verse there all sorts of silly theories can be apparently supported with Scripture.

For example if we take Job 22:28 and ignore the context we read "You will also declare a thing, And it will be established for you; So light will shine on your ways." This looks great, we can declare something and it will happen. Awesome stuff! The trouble is the context just doesn't support this viewpoint - if we read the chapter we see that these aren't the words of God at all - Job 22:1 says "Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said:". So the words about declaring something came from Eliphaz, not from God. So people who stand on Job 22:28 are expecting God to honour the words spoken by a mortal man. That alone is standing on shaky ground but it gets worse - roll forward to the end of the book of Job and we see in Job 42:7-8: And so it was, after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. (8) Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has." So not only are people who stand on Job 22:28 taking the verse out of context, they are apparently expecting God to honour the words spoken by a man who was subsequently rebuked by God for what he said.

It's very easy to get caught up in reading this author or that author, so much so that you spend lots of time reading about the Bible and reading man's opinion of what the Bible means, and little to no time actually reading the Bible itself.

As a very rough-and-ready guide I'd say be very careful of any teaching that denies the deity of Christ, any teaching that draws attention away from Christ, anything that requires blind faith in the teacher (if a teacher says you don't need to test what they preach, ask why they are afraid of being tested because anything that is true will withstand testing), and any teacher who suggests their word trumps Scripture.

Wonderful post!!!

It's difficult for the new Christian to know what and who to believe sometimes. I found myself in the beginning outside of church and with no solid teachers. As you said, someone will say this person is a great teacher, and someone else will tell you their teaching is heresy, and without a solid understanding of the Bible it's hard to evaluate. The best advice is to get into a good church, but people will give you very different advice on that as well.

When I first started reading/studying, there were a few books I picked up that I at first thought couldn't be right, because I didn't understand them or because someone told me something in there wasn't right, so I put them away. I looked at them again a few years later and discovered I could actually learn a lot from them. (If I had seen something that truly went against Scripture I would not be saying this, but it only went against my understanding.)

And there was a time I was so interested in reading books ABOUT God that I felt chastised by Him to stop, because it was getting in the way of me reading the Bible.

As far as reading, I found it much safer to go back and read some of the classic works. They have endured the centuries, and many are available for free on ccel.org. I don't know ALL of what is there, so I can't say for sure, but I never saw anything that wasn't good.

But Contango's post is gold ... great advice there!

 

[aiki]

Thank you.

I'm still very, very unsure. But this gives me some things to think about.

Again, thank you.

You're welcome! If you have any questions about what I wrote or about how to move forward into a deeper life with Christ, feel free to ask me here in the thread or in a PM.

Selah.

 

[dieing2bwithjesus]

As Christians we have to eat the meat and spit out the bones. Not all preachers are called to preach. No one has the right to say who is better than who and criticize others because you think your better then them. Preachers are sinners just like the rest of us are. Just because we are forgiven does not mean we stop sinning. As long as we are on this earth we are fallen in nature and will sin from time to time. Hopefuly much less then we did before were were saved. In Gods eyes he does not see our sin he sees Jesus covering our sin. So we are pure in Gods eyes. God loves us much more than we deserve. We can't earn his love. He loved us before we were even born. Get rid of religion and worship Jesus and follow him all the day of your life. Seek him in all you do. Forgive yourself when you fall. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking you are not saved or you didn't do enough etc. Its a lie from Satan.

 

[Enxu]

Life is bitterly hard for so many people. I have a friend who is suffering from brain cancer. The effects of the tumor on his face and throat have been...horrible. He hasn't eaten a meal or had a drink in two years. All his sustenance is obtained through meal-replacement drinks he consumes through a catheter line to his stomach. Its a very tough life he has been living. But, you know, my friend doesn't point his finger at God and accuse Him of being evil for allowing the affliction of cancer. Instead, my friend's illness has crowded him close to his heavenly Father. He leans heavily upon God every day.

Why hasn't God healed my friend and kept you from the suffering you've endured? Here are some things you might consider:

1.) Corruption, pain and death are the consequence of sin; and sin is the consequence of human free agency; and human free agency is necessary to our capacity to genuinely love God. A world in which God prevents all the evil consequences of our sinful choices is a world in which we are puppets, unable to freely and truly love God.
2.) You cannot know if God has acted to protect you from much worse experiences than you have had. He may well have kept you safe from far more terrible circumstances than you have endured. I remember as a child my sister pushing me in order to prevent me from stepping on an ant. Did the ant know that my sister had acted to protect it, that she cared about its well-being? No. How many times, I wonder, has God pushed away from your life trouble of which you were completely unaware?
3.) We trust and depend upon God far more in hard times than we do in easy ones. God uses difficulty and pain to crowd us to Himself so that we may discover that He is "a very present help in time of trouble." God's answer to our problems isn't to rid us of them but to support us as we walk through them.
4.) This earthly life we live is not all there is. The life for which we are destined as children of God is eternal and glorious. The few years we spend on this globe are less than a blink of an eye in the context of the forever we will spend with God. "Set your affections on things above, not on things on the earth," Jesus said. Why? Because we were made, not for time, but for eternity.

See above.

This is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Doing as you describe here only makes things worse for you. The answer isn't to "curse God and die" but to come to the place where you know God so well that you can say, "Though He slay me yet will I trust Him." You can only do so by leaning entirely upon God and in doing so discover that He really is able to comfort, strengthen, and protect you as you walk through the troubles of life. The alternative that you're presently pursuing will only take you deeper into darkness and make you more unhappy than you already are.

Well, I very much doubt this. It isn't your "dark history" that is the problem for other people, but the way you're responding to it. Gloomy, bitter and angry people do not make for good company.

Here's the thing: Modern Christians have taken the view that God wants for them exactly what they want for themselves - comfort, happiness and ease. And when they encounter hardship and heartache their faith in God is shaken to the core. They realize that the God they thought they knew and expected to make their life all warm and fuzzy is not actually particularly interested in their happiness and material comfort. He is looking to foster entirely different things in us than mere happiness: integrity, endurance, patience, grace, holiness, faith and love. These things only develop under pressure and strain. We are purified and strengthened, not by good times and affluence, but by the pain and heat of the crucible.

Malachi 3:2-3
2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire And like launderer's soap.
3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the Lord An offering in righteousness.

Isaiah 1:25
25 I will turn My hand against you, And thoroughly purge away your dross, And take away all your alloy.

1 Peter 5:10
10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.

James 1:2-4
2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

No, not really. Of course, the Devil wants you to think you are and he will work to foster the nastiest thoughts about God in you that he can. Don't let him. The truth is very different than what you've come to believe. If you will walk with God His way, life's troubles will not drive you into the darkness but will serve instead to make you strong and pure. Your choice.

As one man once noted, God is like a good dentist. We go to him to be relieved of our "toothache" but He sees that we need more than just a shot of anaesthetic. Being a good dentist, He goes to the root of our pain and affects a remedy to it. But this may mean more discomfort before the toothache is truly gone for good. We may have to endure some drilling and filling to be completely healed of our pain. But this is what a good dentist does. He sometimes adds to our pain in order to heal it.

Selah.

You bring up good points. Ill respond in PM so this thread stays on topic.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

MOD HAT ON

Thread has been split here to discuss another related topic.

Loss of faith and unpardonable sin

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[asiyreh]

Judgments are the Lord's alone. I've decided to be more careful about pronouncing judgements about myself. Especially in the affirmative, I want to eye that with a certain amount of suspicion these days, but how I loved my days of milk.

We're all sinners no doubt and salvation is found in faith. However your works will be tested by the fiery analysis of Our God. And if you're left standing with little to show for your contribution to the kingdom, might he say:- Depart from me?

Scripture should be understood as a whole. It's not I'm for Paul... I'm for whatever. We belong to Christ's Holy Church and he has called us to his purpose. Yes we are sinners and in need of repentance, as prescribed. However you shouldn't keep sinning and denying The Holy Spirit until the light gets so dark you can't hardly find your way back to the Lord.
You might find that the once "saved" doesn't provide a fulfilling answer answer to the riddle of the unpardonable sin.

 

[asiyreh]

Judgments are the Lord's alone. I've decided to be more careful about pronouncing judgements about myself. Especially in the affirmative, I want to eye that with a certain amount of suspicion these days, but how I loved my days of milk.

We're all sinners no doubt and salvation is found in faith. However your works will be tested by the fiery analysis of Our God. And if you're left standing with little to show for your contribution to the kingdom, might he say:- Depart from me?

Scripture should be understood as a whole. It's not I'm for Paul... I'm for whatever. We belong to Christ's Holy Church and he has called us to his purpose. Yes we are sinners and in need of repentance, as prescribed. However you shouldn't keep sinning and denying The Holy Spirit until the light gets so dark you can't hardly find your way back to the Lord.
You might find that the once "saved" doesn't provide a fulfilling answer answer to the mystery of the unpardonable sin.

 

[Krillin]

I appreciate everything that's been said so far.

Thanks.

I still seem to be struggling. There's no zeal or passion for God. There's little to no desire to get in the word. I do my best to try and not sin, but that really isn't what it's about.

I may not want God in my life very much. But I WANT to want him. Does that count for anything?

 

[aiki]

I still seem to be struggling. There's no zeal or passion for God. There's little to no desire to get in the word. I do my best to try and not sin, but that really isn't what it's about.

I may not want God in my life very much. But I WANT to want him. Does that count for anything?

Yes, I think so. God is the only One who can expand your desire to want Him into an all-consuming passion to walk well with Him. You just don't have it within you to desire the things of God. None of us do. It takes a work of God to change our hearts so that we desire Him above all else. So, you must simply continue to apply to God for a change of heart. Be patient and persistent. God will give you a greater desire for Him, but it may not develop they way you expect it will.

Selah.

 

[Near]

I appreciate everything that's been said so far.

Thanks.

I still seem to be struggling. There's no zeal or passion for God. There's little to no desire to get in the word. I do my best to try and not sin, but that really isn't what it's about.

I may not want God in my life very much. But I WANT to want him. Does that count for anything?

What do you appreciate more, the words of people or the blood of Christ?
He died so that you could be saved, yet you deny him by your deeds.
You don't want God?
What do you want? Vain temporal fulfilments of lusts?
Wanting to want God, is something, but it's very similar to what I have heard an atheist say, "I want to believe".

Don't you real what sin is? When you sin, you sin against God.
Do all you can to repent, go and sin no more.
You can't call it merely "struggling", as if you don't have a choice.

A video about repentance:
Sorrowing in a godly manner - YouTube

 

[forGod1]

turn it around.. finding a church might seem hard, because you feel like you won't fit in. it's a place for what you're talking about.