I'm Not Saved, Am I...?

siralex172 · Jun 1, 2015

Fight the good fight it is worth it.
Overcome this world by belief in Jesus and God the Father, make Jesus way your life for the goal of God's kingdom.
And take heart because Jesus overcame everything even death. Let spirit be your sword not the flesh, all are one in Jesus.

Hospes · Jun 1, 2015

HannahElizaW said:
What does that even mean to say He has His hand on me? My parents believe in the Predestination doctrine and a lot of the times when I come to them struggling they say "you would not be worrying if God doesn't have His finger on it. You wouldn't be worrying if He hasn't chosen you." What does that even mean? God doesn't have an elect!? If He did, He wouldn't be putting His description as A Loving God throughout His Word!? Predestination basically sounds like Jesus coming down to earth and walking to someone saying "You're mom and dad are saved but no matter how hard you try, I have destined you to forever end up in hell"...

My intent was not to push Reformed Theology, but rather give comfort and encouragement. It saddens me to see I touched a nerve in you regarding election; didn't mean to. I meant to pass on the comfort and strength I have found in trusting my Lord has the power and determination to save me. (I have no confidence in myself to remain faithful even today; I know too well my natural inclination to wander from and rebel against the God who loves me.) All I have to offer you is what I have received; I wish it had helped.

Grace to you.

PS - When you have some time, you should ask yourself how people with beliefs as mine find God to be infinitely loving and therefore find no inconsistency in finding him described as such in the Bible.

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

Hospes said:
It saddens me to see I touched a nerve in you regarding election; didn't mean to. I meant to pass on the comfort and strength I have found in trusting my Lord has the power and determination to save me.

Oh, it's okay. I was already in a touchy mood when my mother literally came in and told me that and you were one of the first I talked/replied to after that talk, it's not your fault..

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

Siralex162 said:
Fight the good fight it is worth it.
Overcome this world by belief in Jesus and God the Father, make Jesus way your life for the goal of God's kingdom.
And take heart because Jesus overcame everything even death. Let spirit be your sword not the flesh, all are one in Jesus.

Oi!....I feel really rough now...how do you persevre through dry seasons? I feel put out..

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

Hospes said:
I know too well my natural inclination to wander from and rebel against the God who loves me.

Do you know the song "Come Thou Font Of Every Blessing"? This reminds me of it. I just don't like the idea of wandering from Him but of course my heart is wicked/corrupt (Jeremiah 17:9) and even right now I feel like deep down I "don't really mean it/don't really care/don't really want to". I pray that it changes but here I am still, struggling...

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

paul1149 said:
There are two ways to deal with this:

keep hammering that thought into your head in hopes that at some point you'll have a revelation and will break through.

in faith, change the focus to a more practical and positive approach.

To my surprise, Method 1 is actually helping somewhat for me.. (though now I have a new struggle).. I felt..really stubborn...but after praying a few times last night that God might open my heart to the Truth that I'm helpless in my attempts of salvation and only Jesus can do that...I have witnessed a slight change in pattern/routine I burdened myself with. I don't feel as tense but in that essence it's unveiled another issue that I'm not too excited to mention..

Rocmistro · Jun 1, 2015

Hi Hannah, I'm a little late to this conversation, but I have a question for you:

You asked what it meant to believe? I have that same question. I'm not sure if "believe" (belief) means that you have been convinced of something or if it implies a choice.

In other words, in belief, do we surrender to a set of facts, information, data, that we find inviolable? Or is belief a choice of will? Probably it has different meanings for different people...

I'm a 41 year old former jarhead with a broken back, but no anxiety disorder. (by that I just mean we are all busted and broken children looking for the Truth.) Maybe we can figure this out together

Your friend
Rocmistro

Beaker · Jun 1, 2015

HannahElizaW said:
Do you think it's possible that some souls are unable to believe? I am not saying by any means whatsoever that it is "hard to believe" (like not wanting to believe whatsoever) I'm saying like metaphorically speaking I jump from one side of a cliff to reach the otherside and I don't make it kind of thing...like I physically cannot make myself believe. I'm crying now with the inability. Which stems to the point of reasoning of posting this... I pray for belief and I don't get any feedback...per se.

We are instructed to have the faith as a little child. A child seldom asks questions when trusting his/her parents likewise, when we are trusting Father God, we must take Him at His word abd believe He will do what is best for us - maybe that will take more time than we would like, BUT, He knows best.

Rocmistro · Jun 1, 2015

Beaker said:
We are instructed to have the faith as a little child. A child seldom asks questions when trusting his/her parents likewise, when we are trusting Father God, we must take Him at His word abd believe He will do what is best for us - maybe that will take more time than we would like, BUT, He knows best.

I'd like to know what children you are referring to Children I see ask questions almost incessantly, as well they should. This is not rebellion, but curiosity, born from a desire to know the truth, for almost all men desire the truth, and in doing so, desire communion with Christ. ("I am the way, the TRUTH...and the life...) And the parent who answers well earns the trust of the child.

GillDouglas · Jun 1, 2015

Sanctification is a daily occurrence and a lifelong process. I've struggled as you have, when I became a Christian. A few years after I accepted Him, I found myself questioning things because of how imperfect I still was. I found comfort however, because it is clear that even after we accept Jesus Christ into our hearts, we will still have struggles, so this scripture gave me some assurance that it was at least normal to have struggles. If you are like me you begin to question your worthiness. I have to constantly remind myself that God set me aside, and He is still working on me through the Spirit. I may never be perfect, but I am certainly miles better than I was.

"Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you." 1 Peter 5: 6-7

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

Beaker said:
We are instructed to have the faith as a little child. A child seldom asks questions when trusting his/her parents likewise, when we are trusting Father God, we must take Him at His word abd believe He will do what is best for us - maybe that will take more time than we would like, BUT, He knows best.

I get what you're referencing but here's a notion I received from someone on a different thread:

A huge amount of Christians don't realize there's two typesof faith in the bible. Most people are familiar with the Merriam-Webster definition of faith.

: strong belief or trust in someone or something
: belief in the existence of God : strong religious feelings or beliefs
: a system of religious beliefs

Faith | Definition of faith by Merriam-Webster

And yes, this is faith. And this is a faith Christians need to exercise. But this is not the faith Jesus spoke of. For the sake of simplicity, let's call this faith(A).

Before explaining the faith Jesus spoke of, a person needs to understand Jesus uses a lot of figurative languages and spoke a lot in parables. So words are not always as it seems. Many words in the bible Jesus used have something of a dual meaning.

John 16:25 (NKJV) These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father.

Examples. We all know "Born Again" does not only mean to go back into the mother's womb. Many also know the word "Grace" means Jesus. Many also know the word "Eternal Life" does not only mean immortality. Very few know the word "generation" also means 70 years.

Just as those words having a dual meaning, "faith" also has another meaning that Jesus gave.

Remember when Jesus told His disciples they don't need more faith when they asked Him to increase their faith?

Luke 17:5-6 (NKJV)
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, Increase our faith.
6 So the Lord said, If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea, and it would obey you.

Okay, now I'll show you why you have more faith then you realize and don't need anymore.

One day, Jesus rebuked His disciples and told them if they do not have a childlike faith, they will never enter the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-5 (ERV)
1 About that time the followers came to Jesus and asked, Who is the greatest in Gods kingdom?
2 Jesus called a little child to come to him. He stood the child in front of the followers. 3 Then he said, The truth is, you must change your thinking and become like little children. If you dont do this, you will never enter Gods kingdom. 4 The greatest person in Gods kingdom is the one who makes himself humble like this child.
5 Whoever accepts a little child like this in my name is accepting me.

So take a minute and think about this. Of all people, how is it that a child can have more faith then anyone? How is it that a child's faith can be the greatest of all faith?

The answer is because the second definition of faith Jesus spoke of means ""Rely on God, To depend on God." This is His definition of faith. This is faith(B), a higher level faith, but it doesn't require more faith on your part.

Faith Means Relying On God

http://http://www.todaysdiva.com/faith-and-rituals/mind-and-body/faith-means-relying-on-god

https://lie77.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/faith-means-relying-on-god/

Look at it this way. What can a child do on his/her own if you send them out into the world? He/she will die. They are 100% dependent of their parent. They can't take care of themselves.
-TPETERY (via Advice For Someone Who's Lost?)

arabianhorselover · Jun 1, 2015

Hannah,

I see so much of myself in your struggles. I have struggled with many of the same things in my life. I'm a lot older than you are now, and I still struggle, but less than I used to. I have spent most of my life feeling separated from God, and feeling like he didn't care about me. I have not had the personal experiences with him that some people seem to have. I have doubted my faith and my salvation for most of my life. However, I do know that God does care and that He has always been with me whether I thought so or not. When I look back at my life I can see where he has been. You are too young to really do that, but someday I believe you will see it, also. Just try to realize that you are no worse than anyone else. And I agree that just the fact that you are so worried about this means that you do have God in your life. The unsaved do not care about these things.

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

Rocmistro said:
Hi Hannah, I'm a little late to this conversation, but I have a question for you:

You asked what it meant to believe? I have that same question. I'm not sure if "believe" (belief) means that you have been convinced of something or if it implies a choice.

When God first started to draw me, so to speak, I was sure that to believe meant having a strong conviction over something. I'd cry my eyes out because I never felt strong conviction over anything in the Bible.
Though I've yet to figure out the true meaning, in a way I'd say it's kind of both, but do not take my word for it...I'm somewhat new to this.

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

arabianhorselover said:
I agree that just the fact that you are so worried about this means that you do have God in your life. The unsaved do not care about these things.

Thanks

merrykate · Jun 1, 2015

Dear Hannah,

When I read your first post, before you even mentioned your OCD or anxiety, I thought, "This sounds so much like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder." It is no shame to have OCD or anxiety, as mental diagnoses are as real and as painful as physical illness. God understands. "Scrupulosity" is the official term for the subset of OCD which focuses on religious and moral issues. Many faithful Christians, including Martin Luther and John Bunyan, have suffered from OCD, and they recount similar struggles that you've addressed in your own posts here. OCD was first described as the "Doubting Disease," because it emphasizes just that-- doubt. Some individuals with OCD my doubt their physical health, taking extreme precautions to maintain a desired level of cleanliness. Others may doubt their personal integrity, and they often fear "going crazy" or harming someone. Still others, especially those from religious backgrounds, may doubt their relationship with God.

The bottom line is that OCD tends to attack whatever is most important to us. Since your faith is obviously important to you, your OCD clings to it, pummeling you with doubts. And no matter how many logical arguments you may find to soothe your doubt for a moment, OCD will continue to twist things down the line. It is the very nature of the disorder.

Doctrines like predestination can cause significant harm to individuals with OCD, as in the case of John Bunyan. I, personally, do not believe the predestination of an 'elect,' which leaves others to eternal punishment, is biblical, but I have dear Christian friends who are Calvinist (predestination), Arminian (free-will), and a combination of the two. At this time, focus on God's love, which is something both sides of that argument will defend.

Yes, focus on God's love, for as 1 John 4:8 tells us, "God is love." It is His core and his essence, and "He who knit you together in your mother's womb" looks upon your struggles with OCD, anxiety, and belief only with that infinite and all-powerful love.

In Christ's Light and Love,

Kate

arabianhorselover · Jun 1, 2015

This is the 2nd time I've seen someone say that Paul suffered from OCD. I am not aware that any of us know what he suffered from; only that he suffered from something that was un-going and bothered him a lot.

merrykate · Jun 1, 2015

That is true, as Bunyan's diagnosis (or Martin Luther's) was never "official." Their "diagnosis" is based on contemporary scholars' comparison of their writings to descriptions from modern-day individuals affected by OCD. While they did not "officially" have OCD, they showed signs that the condition affected them greatly.

seashale76 · Jun 1, 2015

leefentress · Jun 1, 2015

Hi there Hannah, my name is Lee, it's a pleasure to meet you here in Christian cyber space!

I haven't read everyone's replies, and I know this is going to sound arrogant and too good to be true, but that's never stopped me before. lol... I've got some of the best answers you'll find. And they're even Biblical.

I've been exactly where you're at. Had the same questions, doubts, fears, and thoughts. Never been satisfied with the pat answers people give. (I've even given a few to other people over the years myself. YIKES. Lord forgive me! lol)

And you know what I'm doing when I ask these kinds of questions? (because I still ask them). I'm not asking. Not really. I'm really trying to make other people think. I'm trying to inspire them to ask the questions themselves. To see the worth in the questions. To see the necessity of them. Because I know something is very, very wrong. Something -- whatever it is -- is making the questions possible to be asked in the first place. Not just possible. It's absolutely begging for them to be asked. It's necessitating for them to be asked. It's yelling, kicking, and screaming for them to be asked.

And most folks just don't seem to get it. I guess they're too afraid to admit they have the same questions. They're too afraid to admit they have the same doubts and fears. And I think to myself goodness gracious people, just be honest with yourselves, please, for the love of everything that's good and true, please just be open and honest with yourselves and the people around you and admit that something is dreadfully wrong with this picture. hahaha. woooooo. Glory!

Because, you know what? You can't begin to encourage someone who is trying intensely to live in a delusion. So, I'm totally stoked to try to shed some light on what you're experiencing, because at least you know you're experiencing it.

There's the bait! We're fishers of men, aren't we? Munch on that bait for a bit while I go do some laundry. Maybe I'll have time to comment some more in a couple hours! I'm also hoping to come back to find some replies from some passers-by who may think, uh-oh, red flag, warning warning, what do we have here, what's this fellow trying to sell? Because I'll tell you one thing. What I've said so far sure does sound like the potential build up to a big bad wolf in sheeps clothing swooping in and gobbling you up with all kinds of false doctrines of demons and leading you down the path of destruction. At least it will sound like that to some people! Amen! Hallelujah. This is going to be fun.

leefentress · Jun 1, 2015

Oh cool, sweet, awesome, before I finished writing out my last comment, I see an orthodox sister has posted a couple youtube videos! excellent! I don't even know what's in em exactly, but I bet they're good. some of the orthodox theology on this stuff is pretty interesting from what I've heard. watch those for sure. ok. laundry. gotta go do laundry... laters!

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