Illigal Imigration

[Ignatius the Hermit]

This is true--as we have priniting presses and computers and social security numbers and photo I.D.'s and the rest. But the principle laid down by God is the smae--we are to Love those in the country. If these 'illegals' are living in our country are breaking the law, it is wrong. But Christians also broke the law when they did not confess that Caesar was Lord--in other words, Gods willsupercedes that of the government. But I appreciate the clarification Aibrean, thank you.

 

[Harmony118]

I laugh at the contempt many Americans hold for illegal immigrants. The stupid arguments such as "they don't pay taxes" (most of the time - wrong) or "they're taking away jobs from Americans" (oh yes, the jobs most of us think we're too good for and would never do anyway even if they were available - wrong). If we took all the illegal immigrants out of this country, stuff would NOT be getting done. No one realizes how dependent we are on illegal immigrants. It's like we want our cake, and dangit, we wanna eat it too! And then complain how bad it was....

I kind of look at it this way - yes, something needs to be done but let the ones that are here go through some kind of process to become legal, legit citizens. I don't have any friends that are illegal immigrants but I do know of several (I do probably know more but people aren't too open about their status for obvious reasons) and most have been here for YEARS (some since they were 5 and are now in their 20's). For all intents and purposes those people are just as American as someone who (out of pure luck) was born here. It cracks me up that America was founded by...ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS yet we hold such contempt for modern ones. Europeans had no real "right" to come over and seize a Native people's land but we did it anyway.

And as for the other argument I hear a lot about the illegals sucking welfare dry...I know far more Americans leeching off a system they've never really paid into! THAT'S a bigger problem IMO. We're so entitled we can't even look closely at ourselves. It's not the illegal immigrants that are ruining this country, in fact it could be argued our country is as prosperous because of them! So until we're ready to not be so dependent on cheap, exploitative labor (not to them though), we can't really have this immigration discussion. Like I said...want cake...eat cake...then talk horribly about the cake because the cake is illegal. LOL

 

[Ignatius the Hermit]

I laugh at the contempt many Americans hold for illegal immigrants. The stupid arguments such as "they don't pay taxes" (most of the time - wrong) or "they're taking away jobs from Americans" (oh yes, the jobs most of us think we're too good for and would never do anyway even if they were available - wrong). If we took all the illegal immigrants out of this country, stuff would NOT be getting done. No one realizes how dependent we are on illegal immigrants. It's like we want our cake, and dangit, we wanna eat it too! And then complain how bad it was....

I kind of look at it this way - yes, something needs to be done but let the ones that are here go through some kind of process to become legal, legit citizens. I don't have any friends that are illegal immigrants but I do know of several (I do probably know more but people aren't too open about their status for obvious reasons) and most have been here for YEARS (some since they were 5 and are now in their 20's). For all intents and purposes those people are just as American as someone who (out of pure luck) was born here. It cracks me up that America was founded by...ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS yet we hold such contempt for modern ones. Europeans had no real "right" to come over and seize a Native people's land but we did it anyway.

And as for the other argument I hear a lot about the illegals sucking welfare dry...I know far more Americans leeching off a system they've never really paid into! THAT'S a bigger problem IMO. We're so entitled we can't even look closely at ourselves. It's not the illegal immigrants that are ruining this country, in fact it could be argued our country is as prosperous because of them! So until we're ready to not be so dependent on cheap, exploitative labor (not to them though), we can't really have this immigration discussion. Like I said...want cake...eat cake...then talk horribly about the cake because the cake is illegal. LOL

 

[Aibrean]

Making the past a giant excuse...yea that really works.

 

[BibleDave]

I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were on the illegal immigration debate. Are we as Christians supposed to support it or stand against it?

It depends for the reason. There is nothing wrong with seeking refuge. Every human should have the right to do that. Jesus was once a refugee, as so many people forget as they shun those seeking to be safe.

 

[who93]

I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were on the illegal immigration debate. Are we as Christians supposed to support it or stand against it?

For me, there is nothing to debate. Everything is summed up in one little word, "illegal."

 

[BibleDave]

For me, there is nothing to debate. Everything is summed up in one little word, "illegal."

Do you think seeking asylum is illegal?

 

[Aibrean]

Not if they go through the proper process (i.e. fill this out http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-589.pdf).

 

[If Not For Grace]

Illegal immigration is illegal the same reason there are "dry" counties, it's not the churches, but the bootleggers. It's enconomical to have em & to have em stay
illegal (oppressed) & til public outcry changes it, it will remain so.

Just politics..

 

[Ignatius the Hermit]

Just putting this out there: But did the European Settlers (England, Spain) apply 'legally' to start colonies in the new world? Perhaps that is the reaason why Native Americans live on reservations then? If they didn't--perhaps they were here illegally then.

 

[XtianAgain]

I really see two sides to this issue.

It, without doubt, can be a strain on the economy. If taxes aren't paid and public services are used it can create a serious imbalance.

Then again...Did Jesus say help only legal citizens? Sort of makes me wonder.

Definitely, a subject I need to ponder more.

 

[tmsss]

To the Mayor, Police Chief and Town Manager of Saint. Pauls, North Carolina. I,am writing you to let you know, that after three years of sending dozens of certified letters to numerous state and federal agencies to include the US Senate; State of NC, Department of Justice; NC State Highway Patrol and many other State and Federal agency's. I even had the opportunity to have a one on one meeting with Congressman Mike McIntyre. In these certified letters I included criminal charge sheets for foreign nationals that committed offenses like DWI and auto accidents that caused serious injury. I'm very proud to say that something has finally been done about the potential deadly problem that I was trying to get addressed. I have had three Law Enforcement officers come into my store and look me in the eye and thank me for for all the efforts that contributed to the change in the handling of foreign nationals involving motor vehicles. To know, now that after all my efforts, when a foreign national is removed from a 3000 pound weapon for DWI or a felony here in Saint Pauls they are going be detained until they can be positively identified. The days of the past are gone, foreign nationals are no longer allowed to only pay their cash bail and disappear without ever being positively identified and never show up for their scheduled court date, and to only assume another identity and go back to driving drunk and endangering innocent peoples lives. I only can wonder to how many innocent people in the local area have been killed or seriously injured by a foreign national who was allowed to bail out from a previous offense and never be positively identified to turn around and go right back out and drive drunk. We will never know!!
I think it is a shame that it took someone like me with only a 10th grade education to see the problem here and get something done about it. In my meeting with Congressman McIntyre i said to him that I think that the serving in the Marines messed up my thought process, I was lead to believe that the Government was here to protect and serve the citizens, Congressman McIntyre said he had to agree with me. I believe, that anyone in the Saint Pauls government that had the power to do something about this just chose not to try or even try to address the issue at a higher level should seek employment in another field, because you are not here to protect and serve.
In the twelve years that I have been in this area, I have had several officers come in my store and complain about the problem. Up until 2008, NC DMV handed out drivers licenses like candy. The DMV offices were under orders from Wayne Hurdder, who sent memo's out to all of the states DMV's offices to not question the documents that the foreign nationals provided to get a drivers license. Hurdder who has since been let go from his position at the DMV. In many cases it was obvious that the documents that foreign nationals provided were bogus and bought for $1500-$2400. Now that DMV checks and scrutinize the documents provided to renew or get a new drivers license the foreign nationals just drive with out a license. In a one week period the Saint Pauls blotter showed that in the city there were 38 citations issued for "no operator license" in a population of 1900. I suggested to the DMV that something has to be done for the ones that they had already issued license to, they have families and jobs so that they can legally drive. Their has to be an answer here somewhere, an answer that will positively identify foreign nationals, and allow for holding them accountable for there actions while operating a motor vehicle.

Thank you for your time,
Nick Scavo

 

[Rageprophet]

Once again I see people trying to make scripture justify something it was never intended to. Paul writes to Philemon and basically askes him to take Onesimus back as his slave we should not have to look much farther than that to get a better understanding on this issue. Paul basically is saying we can agree slavery is not cool, but it is the law of the land and Philemon owns Onesimus bottom line these are his circumstances be a good christian go back to Philemon and be a good slave, Philemon you be a good master. The Laws are the laws and we are called to be subject to them and obey them unless doing so is sinful, so you cannot justify illegal immigration by saying we are called to help the poor because you can help the poor without sinning and you can honor our immigration laws without sinning, why do we have to argue about the most ridiculously obvious things in the bible how on earth can we get to any meat when we can't even justify not sinning to do what God called us to do when we can easily obey his commandments and not sin?

 

[Pentecostoday]

Yes I think we need more and easier laws concerning citizenship. My church offers citizenship classes, they learn enough english to function and they study the information that they will need to pass the test. This coarse is long and the leaders are multilingual and dedicated. And even though I am not directly inloved in this ministry, I'm convinced that it is one of Gods purposes for this small church with a weekly attendance of about 100. I want to be clear I am for legal immigration but until our laws represent Gods kingdom I support illegals. I don't mind when people get in the way of money

 

[shidztomes]

thera are many aspects of this problem. here are two

1) obey the law of the land

2) help the poor

i read an article in USA Today that seems to have a balanced approach.

it is titled "God and immigration reform" ( i can't post links yet, sorry)

and there is this from the NEA "Immigration 2009", they have outlined 7 points that help give a christian viewpoint to the issue.

i hope that this helps you. i have much more to say, but no time right now.

Thanks for giving the site, i just copy paste it. If you are an active member after like 10 post I think you can have a link on your post. Again thanks for the article.

 

[Ignatius the Hermit]

Yes I think we need more and easier laws concerning citizenship. My church offers citizenship classes, they learn enough english to function and they study the information that they will need to pass the test. This coarse is long and the leaders are multilingual and dedicated. And even though I am not directly inloved in this ministry, I'm convinced that it is one of Gods purposes for this small church with a weekly attendance of about 100. I want to be clear I am for legal immigration but until our laws represent Gods kingdom I support illegals. I don't mind when people get in the way of money

 

[If Not For Grace]

The people could not work legally if we don't hire em. Those who make $$ by illegal

means should be prosecuted under said law.

In the meantime we should use every legal form of pressure to encourage Mexico & any other nation w/which the problem exists to end corruption, and treat it's citizens humanely.

We should encourage production (OIL-U Know they have OIL!) & manufacturing
and perhaps suspend foreign aid to other countries (using this to cause other countries to sanction MEXICO) until Mexico implements a border patrol and agrees to those US conditions.

No Govermental Aid should be given to illegal anything (Housing/Medicaid, etc.) If aid
is to be provided to such people is should come in NON-governmental forms such as Churches for those seeking political ayslum.

 

[tsr]

The people could not work legally if we don't hire em. Those who make $$ by illegal

means should be prosecuted under said law.

In the meantime we should use every legal form of pressure to encourage Mexico & any other nation w/which the problem exists to end corruption, and treat it's citizens humanely.

We should encourage production (OIL-U Know they have OIL!) & manufacturing
and perhaps suspend foreign aid to other countries (using this to cause other countries to sanction MEXICO) until Mexico implements a border patrol and agrees to those US conditions.

No Govermental Aid should be given to illegal anything (Housing/Medicaid, etc.) If aid
is to be provided to such people is should come in NON-governmental forms such as Churches for those seeking political ayslum.

Let's take this a step further..............any illegal alien should be deported back to their own country, no exception. We have our own people here out of work and some starving... even non governmental forms such as churches should stay out of it.

 

[nicedream]

i agree that, from a legal standpoint, illegal immigration poses some difficulties. however, the original poster asked what we as Christians thought of illegal immigration.

i just think about the people who are so desperate to survive, thrive and help their family have a better life. look at it from their standpoint...God asked them to help their families, to not commit other sorts of crimes, such as selling drugs. i think for them, illegal immigration is the lesser of evils: away from poverty, and away from the other evils that poverty can drive a person to. at least it leads them to productive work, and being able to provide for their families.

 

[nicedream]

btw, Jesus upheld God's law, but specifically criticized man's law, saying that it could be too burdensome. He did not come as a politician. He came as a teacher and healer of individuals. Do you think He would turn people away who came for help? Should we as Christians withhold compassion from people who are in need of assistance? I for one believe we should give till it hurts. However, what that means in terms of a legal framework...I really don't know. I just know that I have compassion for the poor, and relegating someone to a life of poverty is not something to take lightly.