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Illegal Imigration, the Law and Congress

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by mark kennedy, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:51 PM.

  1. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    "I appeal to you to constantly bear in mind that not with politicians not with presidents not with office seekers but with you is the question: Shall the Union and shall the liberties of this country be preserved to the latest generations?" (Abraham Lincoln Feb 11 1861)​

    Let me start by saying I'm not a Trump supporter and have no problem with legal immigration. That said the growing crises with illegal immigrants is getting worse and Congress appears to be doing nothing. I don't like Trump but the one thing I like about him is his stand on illegal immigration and he is failing to stop this, the culprit isn't the White House as much as the Laws:

    A few resources you might find informative:

    To truly keep the American people safe, we must end legal loopholes that have left us with policies that serve as tremendous magnets for illegal immigration.
    (DHS Actions to End Legal Loopholes and Secure Our Border. DHS)

    WHAT: Our immigration system continues to encourage and allow an influx of aliens to illegally cross our borders and resettle in American communities.
    (What You Need to Know About Catch and Release. Whitehouse Briefings-Statements)

    Between 2005 and 2016, the United States permanently resettled 9.3 million immigrants based on family relations—a population larger than the size of Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas, San Francisco and Cleveland combined.
    (We Need to End Unchecked Chain Migration and Eliminate the Reckless Visa Lottery to Secure the Nation and Protect the American Worker)
    I'm all into the partisan wrangling and have no problem blaming Trump, Democrats and Republicans with equal vigor. You wonder how we got the likes of Trump in the White House, take a good look, this is the main reason, our lawmakers will do nothing about this. Kirstjen Nielsen stated clearly, the nature of the problem, the policy and the only viable solution. Then for some inexplicable reason she is gone and this kind of clarity along with her:

    So let’s just start with a few numbers and facts. So, in the last three months we’ve seen illegal immigration on our southern border exceed 50,000 people each month, multiples over each month last year. Since this time last year, there has been a 325 percent increase in unaccompanied alien children and a 435 percent increase in family units entering the country illegally. (Kirstjen Nielsen Addresses Families Separation at Border: Full Transcript)
    She specifically identifies the laws that are hindering her efforts and the efforts of DHS to secure our boarders. I listened in rapt fascination as she explained all of this and detailed the what could be a viable solution. The 2020 election cycle is coming up and if this turns into another circus like 2016 interference from Russia will be the least of our problems. Congress as far as I can tell, is doing absolutely nothing. When Trump blows it I'm happy to hold him accountable, I sometimes do a little Irish jig, it's so much fun watching him flounder. I know shame on me, but I do so enjoy it. But it is our lawmakers and frankly, the media for not holding the Congress accountable for this. Ultimately the responsibility lies with us, the people.

    My favorite quote from Abraham Lincoln is on a small memorial commemorating one of his whistle stop speeches in Indianapolis. He said, in effect, 'the future belongs to you, the people'. I won't go into why this little memorial is so important to me personally but here it is:

    [​IMG] Lincoln Commemorative plaque. Indianapolis

    This isn't about legal immigration, this is about Americans who care enough to at least be informed as to the nature of serious problems facing us. I realize the wall is controversial and unlikely to create the solution we all need, but fixing the laws is doable. Why isn't the Congress being held accountable for this? We can beat up Trump over this or sing his praises but that will do little to fix what is so badly broken. Congress needs to act decisively and purposely and I see no effort on their part to do anything.

    Your thoughts...

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
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  2. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    Congress has been seemingly paralyzed to do anything significant regarding illegal immigration going back to the George W. Bush Administration. Rather than find solutions, various parties have chosen to use illegal immigration as a wedge issue. The current crisis is different (i.e. overwhelmed asylum system) but is subject to the same disfunction in congress. The congressional leaders can't seem to collaborate and find effective solutions (rare exception was sentencing reform). That said, the President does have a role to play and to date, he has always sided with those who would prefer to use immigration as a wedge issue.
     
  3. Belk

    Belk Senior Member

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    What growing crisis? Illegal immigration is the lowest it has been in decades. The only crisis I am aware of is the asylum seekers overwhelming the system.
     
  4. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Your kidding right?

    The border is currently overwhelmed with increasing numbers of migrants, in particular Central American asylum seekers. U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has reported that 66,450 persons were apprehended between the ports of entry in February, the highest monthly total in a decade. Projections for March are even worse—exceeding 100,000—with experts concerned that monthly totals could exceed 150,000 in the coming months. CBP is reassigning officers from the ports of entry, which are critically understaffed, to help Border Patrol with the crush. CBP Commissioner Kevin McAleenan has said the immigration system on the border is at “the breaking point.” (Yes, There’s a Crisis on the Border. And It’s Trump’s Fault. Politico)
    Trump's policies are inept, that much is true. The real problem is loopholes in the law that could be fixed are not even being addressed. Ok, so there is no crisis, except there is and the good news is we can blame Trump and nothing will get fixed.
     
  5. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    ...five days ago, the Senate leader seem to acknowledge the need:

    “What we need to do is sit down in a serious, adult, bipartisan basis and try to fix the problem, because the problem is pretty obvious,” McConnell, R-Ky., told reporters. “Border security is a part of it, but that doesn’t solve the asylum issue, and that can’t be solved, I don’t think, without some kind of statutory adjustment.”

    ...but McConnell is hardly known for his leadership on anything. Maybe one day he'll surprise us?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...44088d135f2_story.html?utm_term=.5d94a58ee87b
     
  6. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    What is getting to me, is Congress does nothing. This is what got Trump elected and going into 2020 it's going to be a major issue with control of the Senate at stake. Both sides seem ambivalent. If anything I would expect understanding the nature of the problem could prove revealing. Dysfunctional hardly says it, completely indifferent is how I would describe it. Trump's base consists almost entirely of people who are disgusted with illegal immigration and demanded something be done, in vain. Who were they supposed to turn to?
     
  7. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    So far all I'm seeing is border protection enhancements, nothing to change the laws that are drawing them here in the first place. All they have to do is get here and there chances are much better then sitting around waiting on a possible visa. I mean seriously, if you were living in one of those third world countries what would you do. Because most of them simply cross the border, or even turn themselves in at checkpoints. Courts are so backed up due process seems almost pointless.

    I would be surprised if McConnell did anything except avoid a problem in Washington DC that keeps him from his little Senate get away room. In fact, I would be shocked.
     
  8. Jonathan Mathews

    Jonathan Mathews Active Member

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    Hey! That plaque of Lincoln is right outside the Government Center where I work! Cool
     
  9. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

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    Well spoken. I appreciate the thought that went into this.

    It might be worth noting that a large portion of our economy depend on illegal workers to fill a void. Many struggling families rely on these workers to keep produce and various other foods affordable. The same is often true for child daycare.

    It's probably also worth saying that there are at least two factors which has built an influx of immigrants right now:
    1) a strong economy with a job surplus.
    2) the threat of making the journey harder, building a wall, or threats of limiting asylum. Because none of these have happened yet, it's in someone's best interest to come now while these haven't taken effect.
     
  10. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Then increase the number of legal immigrants allowed, make the visa application and vetting more efficient. Walk across that vorder illegally you should be denied a visa for ten years, that's what happens if you over stay it.
     
  11. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

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    That's not exactly effective. Legal immigrants are protected by the same regulations as natural citizens. Our economy preys on those who are not offered that protection. Those who are desperate, unprotected and undocumented. It sucks, but it's a pretty difficult thing to reverse now without causing some serious financial repercussions to those in the lower socioeconomic categories.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 11:09 PM
  12. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Not from what I've aeen, illegals can make descent money in construction. Not having documentation means, have an accident, take the tags, change your address. They may have it rough but is that supposed to be on my conscience when 100,000 came in illegally last month?
     
  13. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

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    I'm not talking about construction. I'm talking about groups of fruit and vegetable pickers who work from dawn till dusk for about half of what a documented worker is legally entitled to. If we were to get rid of them and replace them with documented workers we would see the cost of produce and and any product using those fruits and vegetables increase by a large margin.

    And what I'm saying is that our economy is not currently equipped to change this model quickly without hurting a lot of people.
     
  14. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Oh so cheap labor can't be a factor, no incentives there to keep the system in perpetual dysfunction. Actually I have always thought that both sides of the isle are addicted to cheap labor and this who partisan fight is smoke and mirrors with regards to a love for cheap labor. Who is going to fix the patio, who is going to watch the kids, who is going to pick the fruit, always the cheap labor. I've known a lot of illegal immigrants actually, some second and third generation after the illegal immigrant got here and spread out roots. A lot of others that make what we would consider a paltry sum but can take it and go back to Mexico and live like kings. There is some give and take but illegal immigration has always been a major problem simply because our politicians at a national level secretly like it and that is not partisan in my mind.
     
  15. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

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    In fairness, it's not that they secretly like it, it's that they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Keep undocumented immigrants around and you'll be attacked with you want open borders and to just let immigrants in in droves. Drive them out and you're attacked with having a poor economy, and being anti-business and abandoning the working class.

    The status quo is at least the status quo.
     
  16. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

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    Nailed it.

    As was discussed in an earlier thread, S.744 was a comprehensive immigration reform bill that would have addressed border security, exploitation of undocumented immigrants by employers, and a fair, humane way to deal with those illegal residents who already live here. It passed the Senate, Pres. O would have signed it, but it didn't even get a hearing in the House. Almost entirely for political reasons. Immigration hard-liners didn't want to be seen as voting for any kind of amnesty.

    Maybe it's time to think about Congressional term limits. Replace those old hyper-partisan ideological zealots with regular infusions of fresh people with different ideas. It wouldn't require a Constitutional amendment--just a rules change in each chamber. Obviously, still a very tall order.
     
  17. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

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    I'm not sure even that would work. Most of us are not interested in the nuance of any given issue. We just aren't intelligent enough, or curious enough or informed enough to really understand our own political opinion, let alone anyone who disagrees with it. Too many uninformed hardliners who demonize the opposition.

    I, for one, know that on any given issue, my opinion is the correct one. You disagree with me? You must hate America and you're probably a terrorist. Saves me the trouble of ever justifying or articulating how I reached or constructed my opinion, which I don't need to do anyway, because my opinion is the right one.

    It's a great system for spectacle, not so much for maintaining a nation.

    Who is really going to listen to someone who has a well thought out, nuanced opinion, when that other guy tells me that the first guy hates America?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 12:44 PM
  18. Belk

    Belk Senior Member

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    Since your quoted data supported my point, no, I am not kidding.
     
  19. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    That my friend, is a key issue.

    It is why their job approval rating is where it is.
     
  20. RocksInMyHead

    RocksInMyHead God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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    You mean, higher than it's been in two years?
     
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