If you're a Christian and pro-choice, you're on the wrong side of the issue.

[durangodawood]

Not quite.
My remarks concerned those verses wherein God speak to removing the unborn child from the mothers womb. The Hosea verses are one such example.
Then there are those verses wherein the unborn was to die as a punishment on the parent(s).

Really? Who authorized that punishment?

 

[pat34lee]

Let's assume the conceptus is a person.
Is self-defense morally permissible? Is it still morally permissible if the attacker does not intend to harm anyone, i.e. the attacker is drugged against his will and is now acting violent?

I have no idea what point you're trying to get across here. Self-defense from a fetus?

 

[pat34lee]

it would have been really helpful if Jesus spoke specifically on the topic. Yes, a 6 week pregnancy means there's a person in there. Or not.

If he expanded murder to include hating your brother and adultery to include lust, what do you think he would have said about killing a baby in the womb?

 

[patricius79]

And in the case of a pregnancy costing the woman her life unless she terminate?

Even if one is certain that the pregnancy will cost the woman her life, one can never intentionally kill any innocent person.

As I understand it, that was the situation of St. Gianna, who died for the sake of her child.

 

[pat34lee]

Not quite.
My remarks concerned those verses wherein God speak to removing the unborn child from the mothers womb. The Hosea verses are one such example.
Then there are those verses wherein the unborn was to die as a punishment on the parent(s).

David's first son died because of David's sins. That type of judgment is for God alone.

Children in the bible are blessings, always hoped for and always wanted, no matter the circumstances. That is why their death is a judgment, which today we bring down on ourselves. We have been murdering our own sons and daughters and calling it a right, and freedom of choice.

 

[Ana the Ist]

My answer is "no" there are no direct and specific verses that deal with abortion. I do believe however we can make a biblical case against abortion just the same (as a previous poster has done).

Well here's a question...did the ancient jews practice abortion?

 

[durangodawood]

If he expanded murder to include hating your brother and adultery to include lust, what do you think he would have said about killing a baby in the womb?

Cant say. The examples you provide are about how we treat other people. The whole abortion controversy is essentially about when does a pregnancy result in a "person".

 

[KWCrazy]

The question is, is abortion a sin? If it's a sin, having an abortion will result in guilt because the Holy Spirit will convict you of the sin. What do we see?
Feelings of guilt are among the most common immediate as well as delayed reactions to abortion. Guilt is a normal reaction that usually surfaces after the woman recognizes that abortion is wrong and that she is responsible for committing her own abortion. Guilt is what we feel when we have violated our own moral code. One study found that fully 70% of aborting women expressed general disapproval of abortion, yet tended to rationalize themselves as "exceptions" to the rules. This "exception" clause was enunciated by one girl after an abortion who said: "It's murder, but it's justifiable murder."
source

Abortion is murder, abortion is sin, and no sin is without consequence. It's false teaching to pretend that the Bible condones abortion.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The question is, is abortion a sin? If it's a sin, having an abortion will result in guilt because the Holy Spirit will convict you of the sin. What do we see?
Feelings of guilt are among the most common immediate as well as delayed reactions to abortion. Guilt is a normal reaction that usually surfaces after the woman recognizes that abortion is wrong and that she is responsible for committing her own abortion. Guilt is what we feel when we have violated our own moral code. One study found that fully 70% of aborting women expressed general disapproval of abortion, yet tended to rationalize themselves as "exceptions" to the rules. This "exception" clause was enunciated by one girl after an abortion who said: "It's murder, but it's justifiable murder."
source

Abortion is murder, abortion is sin, and no sin is without consequence. It's false teaching to pretend that the Bible condones abortion.

How would you know the guilt most women who have an abortion feel is because they think it's wrong....or because society beats them over the head with the idea it's wrong?

Don't you at least think it's possible if everyone stopped making a big deal out of it and christians specifically tried to stop guilt tripping women....that just maybe they wouldn't feel awful about it afterwards?

 

[PapaZoom]

I guess the women is out of luck.

The position of most pro-life advocates I know is that abortion is necessary if it is to save the life of the mother.

A late term abortion takes days to prepare. In some cases, up to three days. If a life threatening situation arises in late pregnancy, abortion isn't going to help.

 

[PapaZoom]

Here is further evidence making it clear that being pro-life isn't just a religious argument. I post this in response to a previous post:

http://www.l4l.org
http://www.secularprolife.org

 

[pat34lee]

How would you know the guilt most women who have an abortion feel is because they think it's wrong....or because society beats them over the head with the idea it's wrong?

Don't you at least think it's possible if everyone stopped making a big deal out of it and christians specifically tried to stop guilt tripping women....that just maybe they wouldn't feel awful about it afterwards?

Should they feel awful about destroying their son or daughter? YES. It is called having a conscience. Those to worry about are the ones who kill and feel no remorse whatsoever. That means their conscience is seared and there is nothing left but judgment.

 

[KWCrazy]

How would you know the guilt most men who served in the SS feel is because they think it's wrong....or because society beats them over the head with the idea it's wrong? Don't you at least think it's possible if everyone stopped making a big deal out of it and Christians specifically tried to stop guilt tripping SS officers who were only doing their job...that just maybe they wouldn't feel awful about it afterwards? After all, it's not a human life after all. It's a collection of tissues and organs that at one time had the potential of being human life.

Isn't it amazing how people can justify the murder of 3,500 babies per day and feel good about it?? Margaret Sanger has now killed more innocents than Adolph Hitler did and the number keeps growing.

 

[bhsmte]

The position of most pro-life advocates I know is that abortion is necessary if it is to save the life of the mother.

A late term abortion takes days to prepare. In some cases, up to three days. If a life threatening situation arises in late pregnancy, abortion isn't going to help.

Are you a doctor?

 

[pat34lee]

Cant say. The examples you provide are about how we treat other people. The whole abortion controversy is essentially about when does a pregnancy result in a "person".

At conception the life has started, because the only way to stop the process is to kill it.
Without a trial and conviction for a capital offense, only God is entitled to end that life.

 

[durangodawood]

At conception, the life has started, because the only way to stop the process is to kill it.
Without a trial and conviction for a capital offense, only God is entitled to end that life.

Its not about "life". Ending a life is not murder, or God would have us be vegetarians. Its about killing a person. And you didnt address how we define a person.

(Oh, wait, broccoli is alive too...)

 

[Ana the Ist]

Should they feel awful about destroying their son or daughter? YES. It is called having a conscience. Those to worry about are the ones who kill and feel no remorse whatsoever. That means their conscience is seared and there is nothing left but judgment.

So if you accept that 70% statistic that just got thrown up...then 30% don't feel guilt. That adds up to what? Hundreds of thousands of women? They're nothing but psychopathic monsters? Probably not...

You know what I think is sociopathic behavior? A culture that finds it acceptable to use guilt as a weapon against women facing one of the toughest decisions of their lives and then turning around and saying that the guilt women feel after an abortion is somehow proof it's inherently "wrong".

 

[patricius79]

Well here's a question...did the ancient jews practice abortion?

I don't know. But I would imagine they did. They also sinned by infanticide at times--essentially the same crime--unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Ana the Ist]

At conception the life has started, because the only way to stop the process is to kill it.
Without a trial and conviction for a capital offense, only God is entitled to end that life.

So if you got into a relatively minor car crash with a woman who is 2 weeks pregnant....and she loses the baby immediately afterwards....you think that you should be charged with manslaughter?

 

[patricius79]

So if you accept that 70% statistic that just got thrown up...then 30% don't feel guilt. That adds up to what? Hundreds of thousands of women? They're nothing but psychopathic monsters? Probably not...

You know what I think is sociopathic behavior? A culture that finds it acceptable to use guilt as a weapon against women facing one of the toughest decisions of their lives and then turning around and saying that the guilt women feel after an abortion is somehow proof it's inherently "wrong".

Why would it be a tough decision unless we know intuitively that an unborn child is a person?