If you're a Christian and pro-choice, you're on the wrong side of the issue.

[NothingIsImpossible]

Christians today are into many things that are the wrong side of the issue. From marriage issues, to rights....etc. I notice its happening especially with christian women who are younger. Feminism has its place, but its also twisted the minds of women when it comes to extreme topics that are already establish (whats right and wrong) in the bible. On the topic of abortion many forget that as a woman you have a choice of course, but as a christian you don't have a choice. You can only serve one master. Chose wisely.

 

[durangodawood]

Christians today are into many things that are the wrong side of the issue. From marriage issues, to rights....etc. I notice its happening especially with christian women who are younger. Feminism has its place, but its also twisted the minds of women when it comes to extreme topics that are already establish (whats right and wrong) in the bible. On the topic of abortion many forget that as a woman you have a choice of course, but as a christian you don't have a choice. You can only serve one master. Chose wisely.

it would have been really helpful if Jesus spoke specifically on the topic. Yes, a 6 week pregnancy means there's a person in there. Or not.

 

[Neogaia777]

Are there any exceptions to the rule, what about a twelve year old girl who get's raped and gets pregnant, she would lose her childhood, heck she's still a child herself, how's she going to know how to raise a child, it would ruin her future, and it's not like it was her choice to have sex and get pregnant at twelve years of age, would abortion be acceptable in that case?

God Bless

 

[Cearbhall]

Are there any exceptions to the rule, what about a twelve year old girl who get's raped and gets pregnant, she would lose her childhood, heck she's still a child herself, how's she going to know how to raise a child, it would ruin her future, and it's not like it was her choice to have sex and get pregnant at twelve years of age, would abortion be acceptable in that case?

Depends who you ask. Which is why it should be left up to the young woman. That's all that pro-choice means. We don't have time to issue a brief about the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy and have the public vote every time someone wants an abortion.

 

[PapaZoom]

There is no other ethical dilemma that can quite be compared to pregnancy and abortion. It is even a legally murky area. Abortion is legal, yet if you kill a pregnant woman you can be charged for two murders. Is it okay to kill a life as long as it is symbiotic and can't survive outside of the womb? However, no baby can survive out of the womb without adult care anyway. Then you have further debates as to when abortion is okay or not okay- and what makes a person a person in the first place. Is it when someone has their full capacity to reason? If so, is a child not legally a person? Then there is the whole addition of rape, incest, and the mother's life being in danger to complicate things. There's all sorts of murky areas to this.

It's life, but it is symbiotic life. It is life that has the potential for becoming human. I believe that once a certain stage of development passes, it is undoubtedly murder. Viewed in this context- rape, incest, and the mother's life being endangered seem to be the most reasonable parameters- as while abortion is never ideal, it can be used if necessary.

That said, I do hold double standards when it comes to abortion. I think life is sacred, and would personally only have an abortion if my life was in danger, and it was recommended to me by my doctor (and even then I'd get a second opinion, talk to my priest and husband, and engage in some serious prayer before making the decision). If I were raped and became pregnant, I would keep the child. I also have the expectation that no Christian would choose abortion unless there were extremely serious issues to consider (and deciding you just don't want a child after choosing to have sex isn't one of these serious concerns), as their views on the sanctity of life should also exist.

I just can't see holding non-believers and/or people not of my faith to the same standards to which I hold myself and I don't think I should be the one calling the shots for others. This is why I view abortion as a necessary evil, and wish there was more education out there to discourage it, educate people on preventing (when possible) unplanned pregnancies so they don't have a difficult choice to make, and provide more services to help and support women and mothers, et cetera. I think women who've had abortions experience difficulties (even if brought on by their own actions), and need our compassion, not our demonization so they can heal. Even though I don't hold others to my standards, I think other people should never see abortion as a good thing.

I absolutely think there should be a focus on teaching responsibility before it ever gets to the point of someone even considering abortion as an option. It's not an ideal option and should be viewed accordingly. If some are using abortion as their only means of birth control, then they need an intervention, in my opinion.

Yours is a well-thought and sensitive reply to a very tough issue. You've said things so well here that I don't want to take issue with anything (even though there are a couple of points I could make). But I don't want to do that because you've hit on some very important areas concerning abortion and your post deserves to be read and reread and then considered very carefully (and respectfully). Thanks for sharing your heart on this matter. You've given me somethings to think about.

 

[PapaZoom]

So just to be clear, nowhere in the OT or NT does it prohibit abortion?

My answer is "no" there are no direct and specific verses that deal with abortion. I do believe however we can make a biblical case against abortion just the same (as a previous poster has done).

 

[Cearbhall]

My answer is "no" there are no direct and specific verses that deal with abortion. I do believe however we can make a biblical case against abortion just the same (as a previous poster has done).

Can you, however, make a biblical case for its criminalization in a country such as the United States, where separation of church and state is the law of the land?

 

[PapaZoom]

Can you, however, make a biblical case for its criminalization in a country such as the United States, where separation of church and state is the law of the land?

This thread is directed at Christians however, I don't think this is uniquely a Christian issue.

http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html
http://www.feministsforlife.org
http://democratsforlife.org
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/1909/atheist_secular_and_prolife.aspx

Non-religious pro-lifers contend you don’t have to believe in God to know the unborn have rights.

And here's a more comprehensive list. Some are Christian groups some are not:http://www.priestsforlife.org/plgroups/atoesites.html

This is not a Christian issue. It's a moral one. And even non-believers believe in moral behavior. BTW, I'm in no way suggesting that democrats aren't Christians. I include them in this list to show that there are people on all sides of the political spectrum that are pro-life.

If killing innocent human beings is wrong, then killing innocent human beings in the womb is wrong. We should all be against that but especially if we profess belief in Jesus. We are called to protect the least of these.

Jesus was once a zygote. As were we all.

 

[Blank Stair]

Can you, however, make a biblical case for its criminalization in a country such as the United States, where separation of church and state is the law of the land?

Actually a Biblical case against abortion can't be made regardless of SoC. Not when God insured abortion per the scriptures.

 

[Cearbhall]

This thread is directed at Christians however, I don't think this is uniquely a Christian issue.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. To be pro-life is to support the criminalization of abortion. It means that you think other people should not have the choice to obtain an abortion. I was asking whether you think that a biblical argument actually leads to a legally-sound case for this.

 

[PapaZoom]

Actually a Biblical case against abortion can't be made regardless of SoC. Not when God insured abortion per the scriptures.

I've addressed this in #46

 

[Blank Stair]

I've addressed this in #46

Not quite.
My remarks concerned those verses wherein God speak to removing the unborn child from the mothers womb. The Hosea verses are one such example.
Then there are those verses wherein the unborn was to die as a punishment on the parent(s).

 

[patricius79]

Jesus was an advocate for the "least of these." We are to protect and love those that God has blessed us with (our offspring). We are made in the Image of God.

Consider these quotes by the early church fathers:


Tertullian (c.160-240)


And lest we forget:


You can read more here: http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/earlychurchfathers/fatherscover.html

I agree that Christians should be entirely Pro-Life, including in cases of incest and rape. As far as Priests for Life, we need more priests who are willing to speak out clearly against abortion.

 

[Blank Stair]

I agree that Christians should be entirely Pro-Life, including in cases of incest and rape. As far as Priests for Life, we need more priests who are willing to speak out clearly against abortion.

And in the case of a pregnancy costing the woman her life unless she terminate?

 

[bhsmte]

And in the case of a pregnancy costing the woman her life unless she terminate?

I guess the women is out of luck.

 

[Blank Stair]

I guess the women is out of luck.

Yes. And especially if GOP presidential hopeful Scott Walker gets into the oval office. He's opposed to abortion in the case of rape, incest, and , in what is called life-exemption, even if the mother's life is at risk. That's some pro-life stance, huh?

 

[bhsmte]

Yes. And especially if GOP presidential hopeful Scott Walker gets into the oval office. He's opposed to abortion in the case of rape, incest, and , in what is called life-exemption, even if the mother's life is at risk. That's some pro-life stance, huh?

And lets not forget, the majority of pregnancies are naturally aborted on their own.

 

[bhsmte]

Yes. And especially if GOP presidential hopeful Scott Walker gets into the oval office. He's opposed to abortion in the case of rape, incest, and , in what is called life-exemption, even if the mother's life is at risk. That's some pro-life stance, huh?

Don't worry, Walker has no chance.

 

[durangodawood]

And lets not forget, the majority of pregnancies are naturally aborted on their own.

Nobody is screaming for research into prevention of miscarriage like they should IF they thought an actual person was at stake from day one of the pregnancy.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

It's a fallacy that being pro-choice equates to being pro-abortion. There are many women who would never choose to have an abortion themselves, and yet who recognize the ethical justifications for maintaining a pro-choice stance. I'm pro-choice.

In some circumstances, paradoxically abortion has offered a greater hope of preserving more life than what it terminates. There have been numerous incidences of crises in a pregnancy in which there is no meaningful chance of the fetus surviving, and yet the mother has been denied an abortion and then died due to sepsis or other complications from that decision. Two lives are lost rather than one. Their loved ones have two catastrophic losses. There are also many circumstances where termination would have persevered the vitality of the mother even if her physical life was not in grave jeopardy. My parents have volunteered with a medical outreach program for years, and met young girls - children - who became pregnant, often due to rape. They treated an 11-year-old whose small body had been ripped apart, ravaged, by her pregnancy. The irrevocable psychological damage was far worse. Teens and children often go into delivery prematurely, thus increasing the chance of their babies being born with significant health problems, or being stillborn. That girl's baby was born months too soon. She had to go through the agony of delivery for a stillborn. The destruction to her body was so severe that she will never be able to have children. I see no moral nobility, no allegiance to the compassionate teachings of Christ, through denying an abortion to such girls when it is the far more humane and sensible course of action.

It isn't just the victims of rape and incest who can be substantially harmed through a pregnancy. There are also women who do want children and are delighted to be pregnant but then are diagnosed with serious diseases for which the medication could harm their babies, and put into a tragic Catch-22. There are women with severe mental illnesses who become pregnant and then self-harm because of delusional beliefs and harm themselves and their unborn child. And there are desperate women who will obtain abortions regardless of the legality of them and will risk grave harm by having them performed by someone unqualified and in unsafe and sometimes barbaric conditions.

It's far too complex to throw out universal absolutes. Last year I took a fantastic course studying the Bible and the various translations and hermetical stances by scholars throughout the centuries, and we discussed the way beliefs on abortion have evolved and differed. Much of what I learned there corresponded to this panel discussion my church hosted several years ago where my minister and a professors at a divinity school discussed the Ten Commandments with Rabbis, and professors at a rabbinical university. The discussion on "thou shall not kill" was especially interesting. The usage of the word "kill" is an error in translation because the original meaning was murder, which differs from kill. Soldiers have killed attackers in the battlefield to save their own lives, and that does not constitute murder. Victims of violence have killed their attackers in self-defense, and that also is not murder. Abortion can also be a necessary act of self-preservation rather than murder. This is why my minister, and the rabbis actually stated that they are pro-choice, while not endorsers of abortion in general. It's the personal specifics that matter. To me it is cruel and myopic to describe abortion in all incidences, without exception, as murder or sinful.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/ireland-woman-forced-caesarean-pregnant-rape-friend
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/08/abortion-refusal-death-ireland-hindu-woman
http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ar-old-girl-denied-abortion-gives-birth-twins
http://www.chron.com/news/nation-wo...burse-rape-victim-denied-abortion-1564445.php