If you reject the LDS message...

[Rescued One]

Softspoken gave an excellent correction of your misunderstanding. I have tried to do that as well.

I saw that Softspoken politely gave me some information, but I don't see where he corrected a misunderstanding on my part. Can you tell me which post I should be reading?

 

[Rescued One]

If you believe that Mormons believe this passage from D&C that you have quoted,...

Can LDS be members in good standing while rejecting their own scripture? I never heard an LDS say that he only believes some of the Doctrine and Covenants. It makes no sense to me at all. How could he believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God if some of what J. S. claimed was revelation from God in reality was not revelation from God?

 

[bewithmelord]

Well I could never tell LDS and Jehovah wittneses apart,,they seem so much like each other. Two of them came to my house,,I had no clue what they were trying to tell me,,and my black cat hissed at them the whole time they were here.

But I did learn a little reading these posts. I am not an LDS and never plan on showing up in thier temple. nothing personal,,they wont miss me anyway. I dont care what Joseph Smith has to say about anything, I dont know him and he didnt save me nor did he die for me.

 

[sk8Joyful]

[sk8joyful]
Fortunately, GOD (not mere humanity) is our Creator , Father , SAVIOR , Best-friend

& Resurrector &
when one of His human-creations accepts & follows... GOD in these relationships, we are assured Eternal-life with GOD.

(No-where in the Christian-bible, will you find GOD's command to "accept mormonism", for Eternal-life with GOD.)
[/quote]

sk8joyful,
Since Mormonism teaches, that it is a restoration
of Christ's original teachings of the Bible

Granted, a "restoration" (of Christ's original Bible-teachings) is necessary;
as one can readily notice, reading unending CF-posts re how people refuse to heal...

But for this, the mormon-religion & church was not necessary, either. -
For even atheists allow themselves to heal emotionally & physically . Even as their souls yet need GOD's Salvation.

 

[skylark1]

Skylark,

I find that title heinous. I agree with you that Phoebe's title is relatively benign compared to your example. If such sensationalism is considered normal here, perhaps I am in the wrong place. I thought this was supposed to be a place of discussion, not a place where Tabloid headlines dominate.

It is certainly your perogative to view the title of the thread as heinous. However, I do not assume that it was written to sensationalize, but to explain what the topic of the thread was about. Looking over the titles of recent threads that I have started, some are mundane such as, Amos 3:6, Question about 3 Nephi 9, Fourfold purpose, Hebrews 11:40, and The Thirteenth Article of Faith, and Sealing of Parents and Children. Others titles of threads that I started are a little less mundane, and were supposed to help indicate what the thread was about. These include, Blashemy? Attributes of God (which addressed a statement that an LDS poster had made about it being blasphemous to think that one can have the attributes that God has), Equal to God? (which was a question about D&C 76:95), Building Walls (which was a thread questioning if we all tend to get so caught up in protecting our beliefs that we build walls and neglect to love our neighbors), and Law of adoption and sealings of Joseph Smith to women . I suspect that if someone was intent on looking for the worst, that they might find these last three titles to be "heinous" or sensational. However, they were not intended to sensationalize, and they were started in good faith.

These are some of the titles of threads that Phoebe Ann started: Apostasy per Christ's Church per LDS, Who is the Son, Do only the righteous get eternal life?, LDS Tithing is not Forced, however . . . , LDS and the Omnipresence of God, Apostates, Mormonism Then and Now, Question about Intelligences, Authority from God, Old Gospel, New Gospel, Another Gospel, What causes one to embrace truth and another to reject it?, Saving Ordinances, Merry Christmas to all of you!, Keeping the Dietary Law (Word of Wisdom), Are LDS required to purchase and read the LDS Bible Dictionary?, Intelligences, The Atonement Provides a Ladder into the Pit, and How did Jesus become exalted? I do not see a pattern with titles that could be considered "heinous" or sensational, but an attempt to describe the subject of the thread. I suspect that if one assumes the worst that take issue with some of these, but I think that part of desiring a respectful discussion should include good faith in the part of others. This forum is in a discussion and debate area, so it isn't unexpected if the subject of some of these threads questions LDS beliefs or practices. However, that does not equate to the author of such a thread is intentionally distoring your beliefs, are dishonest, that their motives are not pure, or that they are a hypocrite.

I hear you, and sympathize. However, I would much rather have a more scholarly discussion, than waste times with tabloid discussions.

I disagree. I think if she was honest, she would tell you that she has a real bitterness toward Mormonism. Perhaps I am wrong, but her distortions sound like they come from a person bitter toward Mormonism, IMO. If she is here to discuss a theological point, I have yet to figure out what it was, and she has been unwilling to answer that question. She has been evasive about her motives for posting this topic, and I think that is very telling. She doesn't want to tell us her motives. Instead of answering my question directly, she uses misdirection:

By this evasion, it seems quite apparent that her purpose is to show the error of the Mormon belief system, and she is not here to discuss theological points. Otherwise, she would not avoid answering the question. If her motives were pure, it should be an easy question to answer, and she would have already shown me the erroneous judgments I may have made about her. (I would have apologized as I did before.) However, her evasiveness seems to indicate that I have hit the mark.

I think I have been very honest about my motives here: I don't like it when people distort Mormon beliefs, and I don't like hypocrisy. I am not ashamed to admit that, and I do want to expose dishonest and evasive answers. I want to have real discussions on religion, not tabloid garbage.

If you desire a more scholarly discussion, it might be best to refrain from discussion criticizing and judging a person, and instead focus on the issues.

 

[SoftSpoken]

Fortunately, GOD (not mere humanity) is our Creator , Father , SAVIOR , Best-friend & Resurrector &
when one of His human-creations accepts & follows... GOD in these relationships, we are assured Eternal-life with GOD.

(No-where in the Christian-bible, will you find GOD's command to "accept mormonism", for Eternal-life with GOD.)

I believe that God's human creations accept God by submitting to His will. I believe that a person can only submit to God's will in the fullest sense and meaning when they accept what He has most recently commanded. I believe that God restored the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in these last days, and that it is incumbent upon all people to recognize His voice in that Restoration and submit to it. I do not believe God is the Bible, nor do I believe that the composite of all that He has to reveal to His children is contained therein. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Rescued One]

I believe that God's human creations accept God by submitting to His will. I believe that a person can only submit to God's will in the fullest sense and meaning when they accept what He has most recently commanded. I believe that God restored the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in these last days, and that it is incumbent upon all people to recognize His voice in that Restoration and submit to it. I do not believe God is the Bible, nor do I believe that the composite of all that He has to reveal to His children is contained therein.

I think that one of the main differences between LDS and non-LDS is what each regards as a sufficient guide to eternal life.

For us, we believe that the Bible tells us that Christ is the only way, that He fully paid for the sins of believers, and that the Bible is a sufficient guide for instruction in righteousness. The Bible says that Christ makes His abode with believers and the Holy Spirit is given to them to remind them of truth, to empower them, and to know what God has freely given them.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
Titus 3:4-5

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:12-14

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22

LDS teaching is that the Bible alone is an insufficient guide and that some who read it might stumble and come under the power of Satan because many covenants have been removed from it by men.

Nephi testified that the Bible once “contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record” and that “after [the words] go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away” (1 Nephi 13:24, 26).
Boyd K. Packer, “Who Is Jesus Christ?,” Ensign, March 2008, 12–19

There is an overwhelming lack of understanding in the world in relation to these principles of salvation and exaltation given to prepare mankind for a place in the kingdom of God, and this lack causes many to stumble. There is no excuse on the part of members of the Church, for they have received the necessary revelation directly from the heavens in this Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. The great mission of the Son of God has been revealed in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants more clearly than any other place. Many passages that have been misunderstood, and therefore mistranslated in the Bible, are clarified in these sacred volumes.
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 4:.)
LDS Living

...because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:29


Satan certainly wants people to stumble. On this LDS and Protestants can agree. Should a person be required to do more than what is set forth in the Bible or should a person not have added more commandments to those already revealed?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16

Can the man of God be thoroughly furnished unto all good works through biblical instruction, or must he also follow the Doctrine and Covenants? The Doctrine and Covenants instructs men to do temple work, to achieve eternal families, that there are degrees of glory, etc. Are these teachings pertinent to one's salvation? The LDS would say they are. Without these teachings, they say "an exceedingly great many do stumble."

Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 29:10

I do not believe that the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, or the Doctrine and Covenants are revelations from God.

I have never met anyone who believes "God is the Bible," as you implied above. The Bible did not die for our sins!

 

[Zechariah]

If you believe that Mormons believe this passage from D&C that you have quoted,...

Can LDS be members in good standing while rejecting their own scripture? I never heard an LDS say that he only believes some of the Doctrine and Covenants. It makes no sense to me at all. How could he believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God if some of what J. S. claimed was revelation from God in reality was not revelation from God?

What should I conclude regarding this?

Another example of ignoring context?

Or a diversionary tactic to avoid answering what was being asked?

If you believe that Mormons believe this passage from D&C that you have quoted, have you ever heard it quoted in ANY LDS church meeting that you have attended? If so, was it presented with the same interpretation that you are putting forth here?

 

[Rescued One]

What should I conclude regarding this?

Another example of ignoring context?

Or a diversionary tactic to avoid answering what was being asked?

The instruction in that passage is clearly to LDS missionaries. It would not be presented to church members in general in meetings or classes where non-LDS might be present. Does that make it non-scripture?

Bruce R. McConkie commented:

Under certain circumstances, when moved upon by the Spirit but not otherwise, the elders are to cleanse their feet as a witness against those who reject their testimony. "And in whatsoever place ye shall enter, and they receive you not in my name, ye shall leave a cursing instead of a blessing, by casting off the dust of your feet against them as a testimony, and cleansing your feet by the wayside." (D. & C. 24:15; 75:20; Matt. 10:14-15; Mark 6:11; Luke 9:5; 10:10-12; Acts 13:51.)

"He that receiveth you not, go away from him alone by yourselves, and cleanse your feet even with water, pure water, whether in heat or in cold, and bear testimony of it unto your Father which is in heaven, and return not again unto that man. And in whatsoever village or city ye enter, do likewise. Nevertheless search diligently and spare not; and wo unto that house, or that village or city that rejecteth you, or your words, or your testimony concerning me." (D. & C. 84:92-94; 99:4.)
Mormon Doctrine, p.831

 

[RufustheRed]

What should I conclude regarding this?

What kind of question is this? Conclude what ever you want to conclude.

Another example of ignoring context?

What are you talking about? She posted pretty much the entire 84Th section of your D&C. How much context do you want? The entire Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

Or a diversionary tactic to avoid answering what was being asked?

(1) Do you have a horse in this race? (2) How does her response effect you? (3) where have you been in the previous parts of this discussion? (4) Do you believe that the 84Th section of your D&C is scripture or not?
(For the record: I do not believe any of the D & C and furthermore I think this whole LDS response is a pathetic attempt at character assassination ~ AGAIN )
Also, I have asked the LDS many questions that are completely ignored. What's with that? Different rules and expectations for different folks?

Rufus

 

[RufustheRed]

The Elders are to leave a CURSING instead of a blessing, Now I would NOT consider this good example of "turning the other cheek."

Would you? Anyone?

Rufus

 

[SoftSpoken]

I think that one of the main differences between LDS and non-LDS is what each regards as a sufficient guide to eternal life.

For us, we believe that the Bible tells us that Christ is the only way, that He fully paid for the sins of believers, and that the Bible is a sufficient guide for instruction in righteousness. The Bible says that Christ makes His abode with believers and the Holy Spirit is given to them to remind them of truth, to empower them, and to know what God has freely given them.

We also derive these truths from the Bible.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
Titus 3:4-5

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:12-14

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22

LDS teaching is that the Bible alone is an insufficient guide and that some who read it might stumble and come under the power of Satan because many covenants have been removed from it by men.

It is not our conclusion that the Bible is insufficient. It is a revealtion from God that makes us to know that many things have been removed from it, and that this was done at the behest of the adversary to cause many to stumble. I believe that when God reveals a word to man, rejecting that word is equal to accepting insufficiency. Up until 1829, the Bible was not insufficient, for it was all that God had given men (collectively). But now God has given more, and to accept only that which was previously given is indeed insufficient.

Nephi testified that the Bible once “contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record” and that “after [the words] go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away” (1 Nephi 13:24, 26).

Boyd K. Packer, “Who Is Jesus Christ?,” Ensign, March 2008, 12–19

There is an overwhelming lack of understanding in the world in relation to these principles of salvation and exaltation given to prepare mankind for a place in the kingdom of God, and this lack causes many to stumble. There is no excuse on the part of members of the Church, for they have received the necessary revelation directly from the heavens in this Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. The great mission of the Son of God has been revealed in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants more clearly than any other place. Many passages that have been misunderstood, and therefore mistranslated in the Bible, are clarified in these sacred volumes.
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 4:.)
LDS Living

Did you notice who the apostle said had no excuse?

...because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:29

Satan certainly wants people to stumble. On this LDS and Protestants can agree. Should a person be required to do more than what is set forth in the Bible or should a person not have added more commandments to those already revealed?

I believe that a person should accept whatever God reveals.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16

Can the man of God be thoroughly furnished unto all good works through biblical instruction, or must he also follow the Doctrine and Covenants?

Again, the man of God in ages past was required to accept what God had revealed in his age. In this age, God has given the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants. They are for all men. (D&C 1:2) Therefore I conclude that the man of God today will be thoroughly furnished unto all good works by accepting and becoming one with all that God has given us today.

The Doctrine and Covenants instructs men to do temple work, to achieve eternal families, that there are degrees of glory, etc. Are these teachings pertinent to one's salvation?

If you are equating salvation with exaltation, yes.

The LDS would say they are. Without these teachings, they say "an exceedingly great many do stumble."

I believe an exceedingly great many have and do continue to stumble.

Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 29:10

I do not believe that the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, or the Doctrine and Covenants are revelations from God.

I know.

I have never met anyone who believes "God is the Bible," as you implied above.

I have.

The Bible did not die for our sins!

I know.

 

[SoftSpoken]

The Elders are to leave a CURSING instead of a blessing, Now I would NOT consider this good example of "turning the other cheek."

Would you? Anyone?

Rufus

Well, let's look at the verse in context:

"And in whatsoever place ye shall enter, and they receive you not in my name, ye shall leave a cursing instead of a blessing, by casting off the dust of your feet against them as a testimony, and cleansing your feet by the wayside." (D&C 24:15)

Now let's compare it to what Christ taught in his mortal ministry:

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.[/quote]

The land of Sodom and Gomorrha were consumed by fire. The first-century apostles were not instructed to witness against men for striking them, but for not receiving them or hearing their words. The form of their witness against such was to shake off the dust of their feet. The effect of this witness, as per the Savior's word, was not a blessing. It was a judgment worse than that received by the land of Sodom and Gomorrha. I would say that is a curse.

In modern times, Christ has repeated that the elders invoke this same witness, in the same manner. If what the Elders do today is contrary to Christ's teachings, then what Christ instructed the apostles of ancient times to do was also against Christ's teachings. Feel free to show me where I have either misunderstood your words, or the words of NT scripture.

 

[Rescued One]

It is not our conclusion that the Bible is insufficient. It is a revealtion from God that makes us to know that many things have been removed from it, and that this was done at the behest of the adversary to cause many to stumble.

So whose conclusion is it and do you believe that conclusion?

I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.
Joseph Smith

The Book of Mormon says that an exceedingly great many do stumble and come under Satan's power. Why? " ...because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them." (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:29)

I asked, "Can the man of God be thoroughly furnished unto all good works through biblical instruction, or must he also follow the Doctrine and Covenants?"

Your reply:

Again, the man of God in ages past was required to accept what God had revealed in his age. In this age, God has given the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants. They are for all men.

Up until 1829, the Bible was not insufficient...

It is not our conclusion that the Bible is insufficient.

Joseph Smith claimed that it was God's conclusion.

 

[RufustheRed]

Well, let's look at the verse in context:

"And in whatsoever place ye shall enter, and they receive you not in my name, ye shall leave a cursing instead of a blessing, by casting off the dust of your feet against them as a testimony, and cleansing your feet by the wayside." (D&C 24:15)

Now let's compare it to what Christ taught in his mortal ministry:

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.The land of Sodom and Gomorrah were consumed by fire. The first-century apostles were not instructed to witness against men for striking them, but for not receiving them or hearing their words. The form of their witness against such was to shake off the dust of their feet. The effect of this witness, as per the Savior's word, was not a blessing. It was a judgment worse than that received by the land of Sodom and Gomorrha. I would say that is a curse.

In modern times, Christ has repeated that the elders invoke this same witness, in the same manner. If what the Elders do today is contrary to Christ's teachings, then what Christ instructed the apostles of ancient times to do was also against Christ's teachings. Feel free to show me where I have either misunderstood your words, or the words of NT scripture.

"In modern times..." Do you mean what J. Smith said?

Believe me I understand the dusting off of the feet, but no where do I read where Jesus told us to leave anybody with a cursing. I stand by what I said, that we are to turn the other cheek. Also, what about loving our neighbor as ourselves? Does that play into the equation?


Rufus

 

[SoftSpoken]

So whose conclusion is it and do you believe that conclusion?

I don't know that it is anyone's conclusion, other than maybe yours. I have stated clearly that I believe it is insufficient to accept less that all that God has revealed. And we cannot accept that of which we are not aware. So any person who possesses only the Bible, knowing nothing of any other common revelation from God, studies that Bible, accepts the witness of Christ it contains, and does all that it otherwise teaches—such a person will in no wise lose his reward.

I, on the other hand, have been given more. Therefore I am required, by virtue of that knoweldge, to accept all that God has given me, if I am to receive the same reward as the person described in the paragraph above.

Your insinuation that we disdain the Bible as insufficient is not accurate in my mind. It presupposes that the Bible itself is so flawed that it cannot lead men to Christ and salvation. We neither believe that nor teach it.

I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.

Joseph Smith

The Book of Mormon says that an exceedingly great many do stumble and come under Satan's power. Why? " ...because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them." (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:29)

I asked, "Can the man of God be thoroughly furnished unto all good works through biblical instruction, or must he also follow the Doctrine and Covenants?"

Your reply:

Joseph Smith claimed that it was God's conclusion.

And it was. Christ first taught that truth (as far as has been recorded anyway) to the Israelites:

"...man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live." (Deut: 8:3)
​

Christ repeated this truth to the adversary when the latter was tempting him:

"And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matt: 4:3-4)
​

And Christ reiterated it again in this dispensation:

"And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent bheed to the words of eternal life. For you shall alive by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God." (D&C 84:43-44)
​

And to be clear that the world is bound by divine decree to accept the Doctrine and Covenants or not at their own peril (in other words, that to those who have been given God's most recent revelations, accepting only the Bible is no longer sufficient):

"Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth. Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled. And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, earing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious; Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measure— Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man. Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear: Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh; And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth. And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;" (D&C 1:6-14)
​

Good questions.

 

[skylark1]

Are you saying that rejecting Mormonism is rejecting God (fully or in part)?

Yes, I am.

I find it very sad that you feel this way.

Christians of any denomination do not reject God, but accept Him and His call to come to Christ. I consider them to be by brothers and sisters in Christ. That we might not agree on all issues would never lead me to say that they reject God.

 

[SoftSpoken]

"In modern times..." Do you mean what J. Smith said?

I mean in this dispensation... this generation... this age... and yes, I am referring to that which was revealed to Joseph Smith.

Believe me I understand the dusting off of the feet, but no where do I read where Jesus told us to leave anybody with a cursing.

Well what do you believe that receiving a judgment worse than that received by Sodom and Gomorrha is? Is it a blessing? Is it a curse? Is it neither? What is it to you?

(For clarity, this is the definition of "curse" as I am understanding it in the context of the verse I cited:

In the scriptures, a curse is the application of divine law that allows or brings judgments and their consequences upon a thing, person, or people primarily because of unrighteousness. Curses are a manifestation of God’s divine love and justice. They may be invoked directly by God or pronounced by his authorized servants. Sometimes, the full reasons for curses are known only to God. In addition, a cursed state is experienced by those who willfully disobey God and thereby withdraw themselves from the Spirit of the Lord. Guide to the Scriptures: Curse, Curses
​

I stand by what I said, that we are to turn the other cheek. Also, what about loving our neighbor as ourselves? Does that play into the equation?

Of course it does. But they are two separate teachings with two different purposes. When facing rejection of their testimony of Christ, they most certainly were not to engage in violence. They were to turn the other cheek as previously taught and, after they had departed, shake off the dust from their feet. I don't see how following the Lord's instructions to dust off one's feet is a violation of the injunction to turn the other cheek.

 

[Zechariah]

The instruction in that passage is clearly to LDS missionaries. It would not be presented to church members in general in meetings or classes where non-LDS might be present. Does that make it non-scripture?

What kind of question is this? Conclude what ever you want to conclude.

What are you talking about? She posted pretty much the entire 84Th section of your D&C. How much context do you want? The entire Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

My post was not about D&C 84.

It was about taking this snip:

If you believe that Mormons believe this passage from D&C that you have quoted,...

out of this:

If you believe that Mormons believe this passage from D&C that you have quoted, have you ever heard it quoted in ANY LDS church meeting that you have attended? If so, was it presented with the same interpretation that you are putting forth here?

and, as if that snip was a stand alone statement, going off about something completely unrelated to what mormonheretic was addressing, and completely ignoring what he was asking in the above quote.

 

[SoftSpoken]

I find it very sad that you feel this way.

Christians of any denomination do not reject God, but accept Him and His call to come to Christ. I consider them to be by brothers and sisters in Christ. That we might not agree on all issues would never lead me to say that they reject God.

The rich man, as alluded to earlier, was willing to do all things but one to get to heaven. Did he reject or accept God? If reject, on what basis? If accept, same question.

My statement was honest. I am saddened myself that it makes you or anyone else sad. What am I to do? I do not feel to say that fully accepting God and rejecting the Restored Gospel are reconcilable with one another. And so when asked, I respond according to the dictates of my conscience. It is not a matter of whether or not I agree with a fellow-Christian. It is a matter of being true to what God has given me. I also consider all Christians to be my brothers and sisters in Christ, as I have tried to show in my actions in this forum—albeit not with perfection.