if you observe Sabbath, Christ will profit you nothing. (2)

[intojoy]

No. If I, and my family, had been born in Israel we would have Jewish heritage and blood. If I was a Jew who accepted that Yeshua had been the Messiah, I would be a Messianic Jew.

No, if you are a descendant of Abraham , Isaac, and Jacob, you are a Jew. If you are a Jew who believes in Yeshua you are the Remnant of Israel.
:$

In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. (Romans 11:5 NASB)

Thank you God for loving the Jews

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, if you are a descendant of Abraham , Isaac, and Jacob, you are a Jew.
If you are a Jew who believes in Yeshua you are the Remnant of Israel.
:$

For being Jewish, you sure do not know much about the 12 tribes and the 2 houses of Israel

Prophecy - Here a little, there a little - Index

The Two Houses Of Israel

There is a general error among most Christians and a lot of Jews regarding the identity of the children of Israel. Because of a general lack of historical understanding, most Christians believe that the Jews are ALL of the people chosen by God in the Old Testament.
Additionally, many Christians believe that they belong to an unrelated group known biblically as "Gentiles."

In this article, we are going to show from the Scriptures that both of these conclusions are founded on incorrect assumptions.

21 And when Rehoboam came to Jerusalem, he assembled all the House of Judah with the tribe of Benjamin, one hundred and eighty thousand chosen men who were warriors, to fight against the House of Israel, that he might restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.
22 But the word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,
23 "Speak to Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, to all the House of Judah and Benjamin, and to the rest of the people, saying,
24 'Thus says the LORD: "You shall not go up nor fight against your brethren the children of Israel. Let every man return to his house, for this thing is from Me." ' "



.

 

[intojoy]

For being Jewish, you sure do not know much about the 2 houses of Israel

Prophecy - Here a little, there a little - Index

The Two Houses Of Israel

There is a general error among most Christians and a lot of Jews regarding the identity of the children of Israel. Because of a general lack of historical understanding, most Christians believe that the Jews are ALL of the people chosen by God in the Old Testament. Additionally, many Christians believe that they belong to an unrelated group known biblically as "Gentiles."

In this article, we are going to show from the Scriptures that both of these conclusions are founded on incorrect assumptions.

21 And when Rehoboam came to Jerusalem, he assembled all the House of Judah with the tribe of Benjamin, one hundred and eighty thousand chosen men who were warriors, to fight against the House of Israel, that he might restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.
22 But the word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,
23 "Speak to Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, to all the House of Judah and Benjamin, and to the rest of the people, saying,
24 'Thus says the LORD: "You shall not go up nor fight against your brethren the children of Israel. Let every man return to his house, for this thing is from Me." ' "



.

I'm not a jew
Not that it would change anything because being Jewish doesn't save anyone, as we know

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm not a jew

Then what are you?

Your faith icon implies

"Messianic Jew".



.

 

[intojoy]

I'm not a jew
Not that it would change anything because being Jewish doesn't save anyone, as we know

Two houses of Israel? The kingdom was split yes but not the ethnicity of Isaac's descendants. What qualifies one as a Jew? Leave it to the bible for that definition, as we agree.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Two houses of Israel? The kingdom was split yes but not the ethnicity of Isaac's descendants. What qualifies one as a Jew?
Leave it to the bible for that definition, as we agree.

That would make for a good discussion thread on GT.

However, I notice there is a thread on that topic over here, but didn't get many responses:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7499635/
As a Christian - how do you define a Jew?

Originally Posted by Heber

Just to put the opposite view to the post about Jews defining Christians! I thought this might prove to be rather a contentious issue. So, as a Christian, how DO you define a Jew?
​

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[intojoy]

Then what are you?

Your faith icon implies "Messianic Jew".

.

Yea, thx for the tip off. I'm generally too lazy to look at things I've done. I'm Samoan/Dutch and Christian - spiritual gentile

 

[Stryder06]

The contention Abraham kept the Sabbath is yours. Now you must prove it. We're not obligated to prove he didn't. We didn't bring the point into focus.

I already did. You think Abraham kept a different set a laws, a stance you yourself haven't been able to prove.

 

[Stryder06]

It is a pity that the law can't be discussed without the sabbatarianiam.

It's a pity that Christian's even argue about the law, when in reality their grievance is with the sabbath commandment. God picks one day as His, but man decides to label another one as His based on tradition. Is a shameful thing indeed.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by MoreCoffee

It is a pity that the law can't be discussed without the sabbatarianiam
​

Yeah....there outta be a "law"

It's a pity that Christian's even argue about the law, when in reality their grievance is with the sabbath commandment.
God picks one day as His, but man decides to label another one as His based on tradition.
Is a shameful thing indeed.

Tis the nature of the "beast".

If I just had a penny for every Sabbath thread on CF.........

http://www.christianforums.com/t7733680/
The Christian is not bound to Saturday (Sabbath) OR Sunday!

The first day of the week is NOT the Sabbath. Nothing in Scripture moves Sabbath keeping from Saturday to Sunday.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come ; but the body [is] of Christ.

In Christ we have entered into a permanent Sabbath rest that the Sabbath of Israel typified under the old dispensation. As such, we are no longer bound to keeping a ceremonial Sabbath on the seventh day. All days can be kept the same for a Christian who so desires.

Hebrews

4:1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it]. 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest. 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 4:8 For if Jesus (Joshua) had given them rest , then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his. 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

If you attempt to make this text mean that Sabbath or Sunday observation is required of the Christian as many do you have to ignore and misapply much of it. It is clearly talking about a rest that the Christian enters into in Christ, and not a rest we enter into on one day of the week. It also points back to the Sabbath to show how it typified Christ, and how that a Sabbath rest remains for us, but of a different and more wonderful sort. Verses 4-8 are referring to the seventh day Sabbath that was given Israel (Joshua had given them rest), and it clearly indicates that it pointed to Christ, who was the other day spoken of.

Verse 6 is astounding in that it makes clear to us that Israel (physical not spiritual) did not actually enter into the Sabbath rest of Christ no matter how many times they properly observed the Sabbath according to the law.

Sabbatarianism (treating Sunday like the Sabbath) is no different than keeping a seventh day Sabbath. Neither have a sure foundation in scripture.

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[intojoy]

Study the eight covenants of scripture before making a judgment. If Sabbath keeping was mandatory, we want to be obedient. If its not, we want to share the truth in love. The life under the Mosaic Covenant was not a life lived by faith because the M O of the Law was: obey and you will be blessed. Under the New Covenant the M O is: you have been blessed already therefore obey.
The token of the Noahic Covenant was the rainbow. The token of the Law of Moses, the Mosaic Covenant was the Sabbath.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Study the eight covenants of scripture before making a judgment.
If Sabbath keeping was mandatory, we want to be obedient. If its not, we want to share the truth in love.

The life under the Mosaic Covenant was not a life lived by faith because the M O of the Law was: obey and you will be blessed.
Under the New Covenant the M O is: you have been blessed already therefore obey.
The token of the Noahic Covenant was the rainbow. The token of the Law of Moses, the Mosaic Covenant was the Sabbath.

Better yet, the MJs and Jews could just study on this "Covenantle" parable Jesus spoke in Luke 16 concerning Abraham and Moses

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:26 "And besides all this, between us[faith of Abraham] and ye[Law of Moses] there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass over from here to ye cannot, nor can those from there ferry to us."

What is the "great gulf" which stands between the rich man and Lazarus? Paul aptly explains it to us in the 11th chapter of Romans. He tells us that God has blinded the Jews and "given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear, to this very day" (Rom. 11:8). He goes on to say that "a partial hardening would happen to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles had come in" (Rom. 11:25)...........................

The "great gulf" mentioned by Abraham is nothing less than God's blinding in this age of the Jews as a whole to the truth about their Messiah! It's not that the Jewish nation won't acknowledge Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah; they cannot recognize his true identity because of God's actions! Yet because of the Eternal Father's great mercy, this state of affairs will not last forever (Rom. 11:26).








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[Strong in Him]

The "Jews" didn't exist until the birth of Judah in Genesis [ask any Jewish historian]

After the split of Solomon, the House/Kingdom of Judah consisted of 3 tribes: Judah, Benjamin [of which tribe Paul was of] and the priestly tribe of Levi......they continued on with what is called "Judaism" to this very day.

For instance, Abraham was not a "Jew" or even an Israelite, but a Hebrew

Yeah, I think I knew that, and usually I refer to the Hebrews in Egypt, for example although I have sometimes said "Israelites".

It's just that I get lazy sometimes - or carried away in an argument or when writing a long post - and find it easier to write "Jews".
My mistake; sorry.

 

[from scratch]

I already did. You think Abraham kept a different set a laws, a stance you yourself haven't been able to prove.

No sir! and I've proved my point and with the Book of the Law -


5 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

What more proof does one need? This says specifically the Ten Commandments weren't given to Abraham. This includes the 4th.

 

[from scratch]

It's a pity that Christian's even argue about the law, when in reality their grievance is with the sabbath commandment. God picks one day as His, but man decides to label another one as His based on tradition. Is a shameful thing indeed.

No our grievance isn't about the Ten Commandments, the law or the Sabbath. It is a matter of covenants.

 

[intojoy]

Better yet, the MJs and Jews could just study on this "Covenantle" parable Jesus spoke in Luke 16 concerning Abraham and Moses

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:26 "And besides all this, between us[faith of Abraham] and ye[Law of Moses] there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass over from here to ye cannot, nor can those from there ferry to us."

What is the "great gulf" which stands between the rich man and Lazarus? Paul aptly explains it to us in the 11th chapter of Romans. He tells us that God has blinded the Jews and "given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear, to this very day" (Rom. 11:8). He goes on to say that "a partial hardening would happen to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles had come in" (Rom. 11:25)...........................

The "great gulf" mentioned by Abraham is nothing less than God's blinding in this age of the Jews as a whole to the truth about their Messiah! It's not that the Jewish nation won't acknowledge Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah; they cannot recognize his true identity because of God's actions! Yet because of the Eternal Father's great mercy, this state of affairs will not last forever (Rom. 11:26).

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...OFewm_S-6kG1geY7mW_1F5Bw&ust=1377375167058942

.

That was not a parable. It actually took place.

 

[Strong in Him]

It's a pity that Christian's even argue about the law, when in reality their grievance is with the sabbath commandment. God picks one day as His, but man decides to label another one as His based on tradition. Is a shameful thing indeed.

Really?

God picks ONE day as his; Christians say EVERY day belongs to him, live for him EVERY day, dedicate EVERY day to him and meet together for corporate worship on the day on which he chose to raise his Son from the dead - and this is a problem?

 

[intojoy]

Sheol had three compartments.

Hades - Lazarus and unsaved dead
Paradise - Old Test Saved - now empty
Tartarus - fallen angels

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Better yet, the MJs and Jews could just study on this "Covenantle" parable Jesus spoke in Luke 16 concerning Abraham and Moses

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:26 "And besides all this, between us[faith of Abraham] and ye[Law of Moses] there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass over from here to ye cannot, nor can those from there ferry to us."

.

That was not a parable. It actually took place.

Could be.

But what would it be symbolizing to the OC 1st century Judeans that Jesus told it to?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7306890-100/
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

How do others view that story Jesus told to the Jews in Luke 16 concerning the rich-man and lazarus. A parable or true story? This is one of the largest studies I have of the NT/NC.

I myself humbly view it as a "Covenantle" parable/story, but would like to here views from other fellow Christians of it.

.

 

[from scratch]

Really?

God picks ONE day as his; Christians say EVERY day belongs to him, live for him EVERY day, dedicate EVERY day to him and meet together for corporate worship on the day on which he chose to raise his Son from the dead - and this is a problem?

Some make it a problem. Is the real problem Jesus? It seems to me they push the law and not Jesus.