If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Word_Cuts_Deep]

Man is sad how mush evil is spoken against the word of God on this post.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

You both do the law a disservice by thinking your attempts at keeping it actually improve your standing with God. That's not faith, that's works. If God were to judge you based on the law, you both would be found guilty. God gifts us a perfect righteousness in Christ, and yet you think we should also try to keep the law. Why?

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[Word_Cuts_Deep]

If i cam violating there foolish laws, because I believe in obedience to be saved, then I want them to boot me out, they want us to follow their laws, but not obey the Torah hypocrites!

 

[Word_Cuts_Deep]

I keep his commandments because I love him & he told me to, just like you want your children to obey your house rules!

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[Word_Cuts_Deep]

Like the Pharisees placing man made laws & rules before the Torah, True Science.

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[ClothedInGrace]

True to that if it is true. Basically you are banned/cut off from them if you don't obey their man-made rules. But if they don't obey God's rules he's always forgive them and never cut them off. Hypocritical indeed. Faith Alone Pharisees.

No, you are the hypocrites, because you teach we should obey the law yet don't obey it yourselves. If you say you do, then you are either ignorant of the law or are simply lying.

 

[Word_Cuts_Deep]

True to that if it is true. Basically you are banned/cut off from them if you don't obey their man-made rules. But if they don't obey God's rules he's always forgive them and never cut them off. Hypocritical indeed. Faith Alone Pharisees.

I want them to boot me out, how can I be joined to such nonsense that speaks so boldly against YEHOWAH'S word!

 

[ClothedInGrace]

I want them to boot me out, how can I be joined to such nonsense that speaks so boldly against YEHOWAH'S word!

Stop getting all hyped up. Trying to make yourself appear righteous is what you are doing.

 

[Jan001]

.... Yeshua's words, ......, who said he did not come to do away with the law, .......

All the apostles specifically teach that the Gentile Christians do not have an obligation to keep the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:23-30 (NKJV)
"23 They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some [Jewish converts] who went out from us have troubled you [Gentiles] with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
Farewell.
30 So when they were sent off, they came to Antioch; and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter."


I think this New Covenant teaching was made very clear 2000 years ago and it is still in effect today. Christians are not obligated to keep the Old Covenant Laws including the dietary, ceremonial, and Sabbath laws. According to Paul, the people who believe that they must keep the Old Covenant Law of Moses have turned away from the faith (they have become enemies of Christ) and therefore they have fallen away from the grace of God. Hebrews 10:26-30

Galatians 5:4
"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."


Jesus explains the reason for His coming to earth:

Luke 24:44
"[ The Scriptures Opened ] Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you,.” that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

Christ came to earth to finish/fulfill/complete the Old Testament Law. Christ finished/fulfilled/completed the Old Testament Law by His death on the cross and His resurrection from the dead. The first covenant is finished. It is no longer enforced by God. Jesus' new covenant was put in force at the exact same time that He finished the first covenant: by His death on the cross.


Early in Jesus' ministry, a long time before His death on the cross, Jesus told His followers:


Matthew 5:17
"[ Christ Fulfills the Law ] “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."



Jesus came to earth to finish the Levitical Law [Law of Moses] and its priesthood. He did this by His death on the cross. Jesus is now the high priest of the Melchizedek priesthood of His new covenant.


John 19:30
"So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit."

After Jesus' resurrection, He explains to His followers that He fulfilled/finished the Law of Moses:

Luke 24:44
"[ The Scriptures Opened ] Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”


The Old Testament has been fulfilled/finished by Jesus Christ. The New Testament is now in force. That is why Christian boys and men do not have to be circumcised nor do any Christians have to follow the OT dietary, Sabbath, and ceremonial laws and this is noted in Colossians 2:1-17.

 

[BABerean2]

There are clearly two parties in Galatians 6:16. One is those who walk by "this rule", or being a new creation in Christ, and the other is Israel. Paul was simply wishing peace and mercy to both the Church and Israel.

Which Israel are you referring to?


Two Israels: Israel of the Flesh and Israel of the Promise



Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

(The promise was made to only one seed, Christ.)

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(Being in-Christ is not dependant on one’s bloodline. You are adopted through Christ.)

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

(Read Romans 9:8 to find out who the “children of God” are.)

Gal 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

………………………………...................

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

(God does not judge by one’s bloodline.)

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(All of Jacob's descendants are not included in Israel of the Promise.)

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

(Being a descendant of Jacob does not make one a child of God.)
..........................................................

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(The New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant.)

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

(He took away the Sinai Covenant to establish the New Covenant.)


Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
(There is no need for renewed animal sacrifices. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. He was God‘s one and only son.)

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
(We are looking for the New Jerusalem, which is now above based on Gal. chapter 4.)

..............................................................
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Faith in Christ replaces the Law.)

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(This is the only way of salvation, since the Cross. The blood of bulls and goats is now useless.)

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

(God is no longer a respecter of persons based on bloodline.)

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
(Paul was an Israelite who was not cast away, because of his faith in Christ.)

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(During Paul's time there was a remnant of Jacob's descendants, who believed in Christ.)

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
(Salvation has always been by faith. No one but Christ has ever kept the Law. Nobody in the Old Testament was saved by keeping the Law. They were saved by Faith.)

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
(Those broken off, has to be a reference to the unbelieving Israelites.)

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

(They can only be grafted back in, through faith in Christ.)

Rom 11:26 And “so” all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


("so" is an adverb of manner indicated by the Greek. It is not an adverb of time.)

(Many modern Bible scholars have changed the word “so” to the word “then” which completely changes the intended meaning of the verse.)

G3779
οὕτωhoutō
hoo'-to
Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.
From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.

This could also be written, “And in this manner all Israel shall be saved…” which refers back to verse 23. They can be grafted back in through Faith in Christ. Many people say this means all of the descendants of Jacob will be saved at some future point in time. However, multiple verses in Romans 9, 10 and 11 say the opposite. This has been clearly demonstrated by the words of the Apostle Paul.

One verse cannot change all of the other verses that come before it.

………………………………..........................................................

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

(This is the New Covenant found in Jer. 31:31-34, Matt. 26:28 , Gal. 3:16, and Heb. 7:12, 8:6-13. It is now in effect, based on Heb. 8:6.)







Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

(Paul started Romans chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites, those who bowed to Baal and the remnant who would not. In this verse we also have two groups. There were those blinded to who was the Messiah and were broken off of the Olive Tree and there was the “election” who accepted Jesus and remained in the Olive Tree. The Gentiles were grafted in among the election of Israelites. )







Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph_2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
(God is no longer a respecter of persons. Christ has broken down the wall of separation between all peoples.)

The descendants of Jacob can only be grafted back into faithful Israel by faith in Christ. This is the "so", manner of their salvation.

The Church is not a parenthesis in God's plan. The Church is the Plan.

If we truly love the Jewish people we must tell them the truth.





My wife and I support Jews for Jesus and Word of Messiah Ministries, because they are taking the Gospel to the Jewish people, now.

 

[Gavriel Abir]

I'm sorry but I don't think anyone is going to agree with the Idea that Israel is referred to as Gentiles when it comes to Christianity. One can either be a Gentile or part of Israel, not both.

 

[BobRyan]

We actually have to obey the Law to be saved too. If we don't be perfect like the Father then we will be condemned. We will keep the Law because we have to and because we want to if we are truly saved and want to be saved in the future coming of Christ the second time.

The question that some may want to obfuscate - is whether or not the lost person becomes saved by accepting the Gospel or by suddenly becoming a lost person that keeps the Law of God perfectly.

I have not met anyone that claims that lost people achieve salvation by simply obeying God - not accepting Christ, not repenting, not claiming forgiveness of sins - just being "better lost people".

I doubt that you are claiming that either - but some here may wish to make it appear that this is what you are saying.

So beware of that - don't be maneuvered into a corner where it can be made to appear you take that position by someone else.

in Christ,

bob

 

[BobRyan]

SDAism really needs to be addressed too, but not as bad as the outright lawlessness. It is not even Ten Commandments literally.

Maybe you should consider starting a thread on that topic.

 

[Alawishis]

A person who constantly lies, cheats, steals, etc. cannot have the Holy Spirit inside of them.

He is the One who writes the moral law on our heart.

He convicts us and corrects us on a daily basis.

We are to be circumcised in the heart, instead of the flesh.

In the same way, we are to have the Sabbath rest in our heart every day, instead of just one day a week.


1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

.

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Those who claim they are keeping the Sabbath and the other commandments in the flesh, are kidding themselves. It cannot be done.

They are just like the young man who told Jesus that he had kept the law his whole life.

Instead of laughing at him or calling him a liar, Jesus asked the man to give up everything and follow him.
The young man's response revealed the truth.



1Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.



1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

You say this like having the law written on our hearts is a new feature since the coming of Christ, and somehow if the law is written on our hearts that means we don't need to keep it outwardly just spiritually. Proverbs 3:1-3, Proverbs 7:1-3 It is clear that God always expected us followers to have his law written on our hearts even back in the old testament.

So what does it mean to have the law written on our hearts? Does it mean, like so many preachers say, we no longer have to keep the law? It can't possibly mean that because it's clear that God expected Israel to keep his law, and He wanted in written on their hearts also. Nobody would deny that God expected Israel to keep His law after all. But, you're saying that's impossible to keep God's law, so was God unjust? Is God a tyrant expecting man to keep a law that's impossible to keep? Were people in the OT times different than us that they could keep it, but for us it's impossible? Maybe, just maybe, that's what it means to have the law written on our hearts. Maybe having the law written on our hearts is what allowed the people of Israel to keep the law. If that's the case then it's also the secret to how we can keep the law.

Consider 1 Samuel 16:7, 1 Corinthians 4:5 and Jeremiah 17:10 there are many more text that tell us that it's the heart that God judges. What we do outwardly is often an indication of what is in our hearts, we can do things outwardly but have the wrong heart. As men we judge people outwardly, by what they do or what they look like,Prov 25:3. God does not look at appearances. In the Hebrew language, like ours, the heart denotes a person's center for both physical and emotional-intellectual-moral activities.

"A wise man's heart guides his mouth, " Prov 16:23. The mouth confesses what the heart trusts ( Rom 10:9 ; cf. Deut 30:14 ). So it's the heart that guides our actions, not only what we say but also what we do. It stands to reason that if the law is written on our heart, then it will guide what we say and what we do. Having the law written on our hearts mean that we keep the law because we love God, because we want to, not because we feel we have to. Was Israel able to keep God's law perfectly, no of course not. But that did not change God's expectation of them. God did not judge Israel on their ability to keep the letter of the law perfectly. God judged Israel but their hearts. He judged them by their love for Him and their desire to serve him from their hearts. What they did outwardly was the fruits of what was in their hearts; it's the same for us. God wants us to write the law on our hearts does not mean we don't keep it, it means we keep it because we love Him. It's an expression of our hearts. And yes, the law in the heart can be kept perfectly, it may not always manifest that way outwardly, but that's not how God judges us.

And really, thank God for that.

 

[BABerean2]

You say this like having the law written on our hearts is a new feature since the coming of Christ, and somehow if the law is written on our hearts that means we don't need to keep it outwardly just spiritually.

I never said what you have added in the last half of your statement. As a matter of fact I said the opposite.

We cannot save ourselves. It is what every "works based" religion on the planet attempts to do.

We are saved by Grace. As a result of our salvation, others should see the fruit from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Those who continue to lie, cheat, and steal with no remorse cannot have the Holy Spirit inside of them.

However, anyone who thinks they can keep the law perfectly is not being honest with others or themselves.

It is something that only the Messiah could do.

 

[BobRyan]

We are saved by Grace. As a result of our salvation, others should see the fruit from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Those who continue to lie, cheat, and steal with no remorse cannot have the Holy Spirit inside of them.

However, anyone who thinks they can keep the law perfectly is not being honest with others or themselves.

It is something that only the Messiah could do.

Then do you oppose the Commandments of God as a Christian or do you have them written on the "mind and heart"??