If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

Meowzltov · Jan 6, 2016

BobRyan said:
Paul said -- "And in this way" all Israel will be saved.

Israel's heart is hardened so that the Gentiles may come in. IOW God has taken away from Israel the ability to receive the gospel for a higher purpose, and for THIS reason, all Israel shall be saved.

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

Open Heart said:
Again, I ask you, are you saying you are pro-Judaism?

I am neither pro or anti Judaism. I stand for Christ and my identity nationally, racially and religiously is Christian, under God's Grace.

To identify with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel one must be pro-Christian.

Meowzltov · Jan 6, 2016

Berean777 said:
I am neither pro or anti Judaism. I stand for Christ and my identity nationally, racially and religiously is Christian, under God's Grace.

To identify with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel one must be pro-Christian.

Your posts said otherwise.

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

True Israel is under Christ Jesus, inclusive of Jew, Greek and Gentile.

Outside of Christ there is no covenant promise. We as Christians are the true Israel of God.

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

Open Heart said:
Your posts said otherwise.

We must disown what we were once nationally, racially and religiously before we can truly come into the fullness of Christ and be called the Sons of God. If we remain in our old ways, we are denying Christ.

The question is not about being pro or anti Judaism on a Christian forum, rather if we are either pro-Christian or Anti-Christian.

I have rejected paganism, nationalism, in order to be in Christ. We either will proclaim Christ or deny Christ before men. If I am for example Pro-Judaism then I would be denying Christ.

Your profile title statement "Who ever meets Jesus meets Judaism" is false. In fact Judaism after the cross has become one of many pagan religions, distant from God's love, truth and Grace. I am the way, the truth, the life says Jesus.

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

We are not going to peddle in or to push Judaism on a Christian Forum are we OH.

I think we should at least respect how we promote ourselves as Christians, after all OH you are Catholic.

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

I find myself defending Christ before Judaisers, would you say that I am anti-Judaism OH.

I promote pro-gospel salvation message in Christ whilst Judaisers promote an anti-gospel salvation message in the absence of Christ.

If I then promote the pro-gospel salvation message in Christ to pro-Judaisers, then I must be pro-Jewish. Can you see the irony of your wrong labelling of me?

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

So in this regard I will continue to be pro-Jewish by pushing Christ to today's pagan Judaism.

I am merely doing exactly what Jonah did to the once pagan men of Nineveh.

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

Pro Jewish means adherance to Christ. For a true Jew is one inwardly in the spirit.

In this regard I wish to ask you to correct your statement."Whoever meets Jesus Christ meets Judaism"

To..."Whoever meets Jesus Christ becomes a true Jew".

A Spiritual Jew is the genuine article, that represents all true Israel. There is no other Jew after the cross, other than those who remain in Christ. One does not look outwardly to a fleshly race to know Jesus Christ, for one must intimately know Jesus Christ to be a true Jew.

I can say that I am a true Jew and those without Christ, who are in Israel, in the Middle East to be Jews by name, meaning they became unbelieving gentiles after the cross.

So in this regard I am pro-Christian, that is pro-Jewish and I love all faithful in Christ regardless of their genealogies.

Do I continue in Christ or in Judaism is the question that all Judaisers need to ask themselves, because the two are the diametric opposites.

Judaism (Law based pagan religion) versus Christ (Grace and truth)

Sophrosyne · Jan 6, 2016

I applaud your interesting approach to the idea of "we are all Jews" in spirit, but I think it flies in the face of Paul himself who said there was no Jew or Gentile (Greek) in Christ. I suspect you mean we are "all the same" in Christ.
What I tend to see is that one who promotes the Law invests their identity in Judaism and that leads to essentially thinking in part that one is "like a Jew" or to some point a Jew in itself. This connection also flies in the face of Paul who essentially says.... there is no "identity" as a Jew in Christ.

I think at some point one has to choose to go beyond the flesh and accept Jesus as God instead of limiting their identity with him as just a man (Jew) and that connection. In God we have all people connection but in Judaism most of the planet is disconnected from God.
Salvation doesn't anywhere contend we must become a Jew to be connected with God, yet those who promote Judaism in part (the Law, Sabbath) contend that one is disconnected if they aren't a Jew in part (keeping Jewish commandments).

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

Sophrosyne said:
I applaud your interesting approach to the idea of "we are all Jews" in spirit, but I think it flies in the face of Paul himself who said there was no Jew or Gentile (Greek) in Christ. I suspect you mean we are "all the same" in Christ.
What I tend to see is that one who promotes the Law invests their identity in Judaism and that leads to essentially thinking in part that one is "like a Jew" or to some point a Jew in itself. This connection also flies in the face of Paul who essentially says.... there is no "identity" as a Jew in Christ.

I think at some point one has to choose to go beyond the flesh and accept Jesus as God instead of limiting their identity with him as just a man (Jew) and that connection. In God we have all people connection but in Judaism most of the planet is disconnected from God.
Salvation doesn't anywhere contend we must become a Jew to be connected with God, yet those who promote Judaism in part (the Law, Sabbath) contend that one is disconnected if they aren't a Jew in part (keeping Jewish commandments).

The word Jew used by Paul alludes to being faithful to all the law through Christ. It is therefore a statement of faith, in contention with the Judaisers of the Law who promote fleshly ordinances in the absence of Grace.

So Paul distinguishes the faithful from the disobedient by using the word spiritual Jew to declare that those without Christ are no longer Jews according to God, but have become unbelieving gentiles of the world.

So the laws being fulfilled in Christ makes us the faithful Israelites of God through Christ and are grafted to the vine, being made heirs to the promise with Abraham. Therefore Paul is saying these are the true Jews not you guys. Jesus even denied them as being Abraham's seed because of their disobedience. So the gentiles took their place to be the faithful spiritual Jews and the sons of the flesh became the disobedient sons of Hagar who were cut off from the promise.

This is where the natural branches were cut off and replaced by the wild branches, but the vine remained the same. So those natural branches without the Living vine Christ Jesus have no identity.

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

You see there is only one living vine, who is the SEED of promise Jesus Christ. When the natural branches were broken off from Jesus Christ, this meant that the Jews by birth, became divorced as a legitimate spiritual wife from God. In this regard a younger wife replaced the older wife, as was depicted when Jesus rode the mother donkey to the outskirts of Jerusalem and then replaced her with her baby donkey, a colt, who carried the Christ right into the heart of Jerusalem. So Israel became a spiritual bride made up of all nations and they replaced the natural branches and therefore became spiritual Jews.

The natural branches are outcasts and are now gentiles who have been spiritually dying in large numbers throughout all generations. Paul's hope was on these natural branches to be tied to the Living Vine, but once they are dying, they are lost.

BobRyan · Jan 6, 2016

Yet Rom 11 says "He is able to graft them in AGAIN IF they do not continue in unbelief" -- God so loved the WORLD that He gave (not so-loved Just the Gentiles. or So loved Just the Jews).

In Romans 2 it is law breaking the condemns BOTH Jews and Gentiles to hell.

And it is the new birth - 'Law written on the heart' that shows both Jews and Gentiles to be saved - born again saints - as Romans 2 says.

Then BOTH groups have saints and BOTH groups have the lost - and neither can say that they are saved by virtue of a physical link to Abraham - rather it is the "Children of the promise" that are saved and Abraham is "The father of the faithFUL" not the faithLESS

BobRyan · Jan 6, 2016

Sophrosyne said:
I applaud your interesting approach to the idea of "we are all Jews" in spirit, but I think it flies in the face of Paul himself who said there was no Jew or Gentile (Greek) in Christ. I suspect you mean we are "all the same" in Christ.
What I tend to see is that one who promotes the Law invests their identity in Judaism and that leads to essentially thinking in part that one is "like a Jew" or to some point a Jew in itself. This connection also flies in the face of Paul who essentially says.... there is no "identity" as a Jew in Christ.

The NEW Covenant is made with "The House of ISRAEL" in Heb 8 and Jer 31

AND this is the reason why -

And as the context for that - Romans 9 "they are NOT all Israel who are children of the flesh".
Rom 9
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed

Rom 2
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

NIV-
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved

Paul said -- "And in this way" all Israel will be saved. Rom 11 - and what was that "way" that is described in Romans 11? answer -- it is the way of the Gospel - the Gospel where both Jews and Gentiles are saved -

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

Although many Jews by birth have been lost over the last 2000 years, we still hold out hope that they will turn and join in the blessings with the true Israel of God.

Matthew 8:11-12
11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

We cannot deny that many Judaisers who rejected Jesus after the cross have been cast into hell. Over the last 2000 their losses has been insurmountable and in this regard we must reject anti-gospel salvation message for the sake of those who are alive now. Telling the Judaisers without Christ that they are saved through another gospel, tied to the Mosaic Law covenant, is inadvertently giving them a certain spiritual death sentence.

The Hebrew roots movement must come to this rude Awakening and to change their ways for the sake of the sons of the Kingdom who are damned, because they are without Christ.

I mentioned in my previous posts that I am pro-gospel and pro-Jewish, because I love them enough to tell them the truth, no matter how much it hurts, so that they can be saved and to recieve the blessings.

The rabinical authority need to wake up and rally behind their people's. Look at the Men of Nineveh and follow in their footsteps, you will rejoice and know that God is with you when you accept Jesus Christ and to preach him to all your peoples. Just do it!

Meowzltov · Jan 6, 2016

BobRyan said:
Yet Rom 11 says "He is able to graft them in AGAIN IF they do not continue in unbelief" -- God so loved the WORLD that He gave (not so-loved Just the Gentiles. or So loved Just the Jews).

The Olive Tree is those who accept the Oracles of God. NOT those who are saved.

Berean777 · Jan 6, 2016

The Olive Tree is the one and the only Oracle of God, who is Christ Jesus the Living Vine.

Those Oracles who were once natural branches attached to the Living Vine, have been ripped out, because of their disobedience.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus Christ is the one and only Oracle/mediator between God and mankind. The Olive Tree is made up of the Living Vine, which is the main trunk/stem of the Olive Tree and off it, were attached branches. Once the natural branches were attached to it, yet after the cross they were cut off and in their place were grafted wild branches, symbolizing the nations of the world. The multicoloured coat that Joseph was given is the symbol of the nations of the world that were given in Christ's hands.

BobRyan · Jan 7, 2016

Open Heart said:
The Olive Tree is those who accept the Oracles of God. NOT those who are saved.

Those grafted in "stand by faith" according to Romans 11 -- there is no such thing as "the lost standing by faith" so being grafted in - is the state of being saved. To repent - to choose not to "continue in unbelief" is to turn to the Gospel and be saved.

Meowzltov · Jan 8, 2016

BobRyan said:
Those grafted in "stand by faith" according to Romans 11 -- there is no such thing as "the lost standing by faith" so being grafted in - is the state of being saved. To repent - to choose not to "continue in unbelief" is to turn to the Gospel and be saved.

It does not say that those grafted in are all the saved.

BobRyan · Jan 8, 2016

Open Heart said:
It does not say that those grafted in are all the saved.

Yes they are all saved who are in that tree just as in the vine of John 15 -- because they all "stand only by your faith" as stated in Romans 11-- and "we ar saved by grace through faith" Eph 2:8 AS even Heb 11 points out for the OT saints.

If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

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