If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[BobRyan]

The Holy Spirit inspired the early Christian Church's leaders to chose for their own OT canon only the OT books that God wanted them to choose.

Which had already been used by them as scripture - Acts 17:11, 2Tim 3:16 long before the RCC came along 5 centuries later.

 

[Jan001]

RE: Sabbath Laws
Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Christians did not nullify them [Sabbath laws], nor did Christ.

Jesus specifically came to earth to fulfill/finish/end both the Old Covenant and the Law of Moses and also, most importantly, to put in force His New Covenant.

Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses. Jesus finished the Law of Moses. Jesus ended the Law of Moses.

Before the resurrection Jesus stated the following:

Matthew 5:17

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. nkjv​

Luke 22:37
For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.” nkjv

John 19:30
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. nkjv​

After the resurrection Jesus stated the following:

Luke 24:44
Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. nkjv

Romans 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. esv
​

Jesus fulfilled all the things that He was sent to do for His first coming. And, this included finishing/ending the Law of Moses and finishing/ending the Old Covenant. There are still a few prophesies that He will fulfill when He returns again for His second coming.

Christ ended/fulfilled/finished the Law of Moses by fulfilling all the things that were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning His first coming to earth. And this is why the Old Covenant's Sabbath laws and the Law of Moses are not followed by Christians.

 

[Jan001]

Which had already been used by them as scripture - Acts 17:11, 2Tim 3:16 long before the RCC came along 5 centuries later.

The Church of the early Christians was called the Catholic Church. The official name of my church is the Catholic Church. I belong to the Roman Rite of this Catholic Church.


All Early Church Fathers were Catholics belonging to the Catholic Church.


The Catholic Church's official name was already recorded in St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrnaeans in 107 A.D. In that Apostolic Letter, he wrote;

Chapter 8:

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

 

[BobRyan]

The Church of the early Christians was called the Catholic Church.

Not by anyone in the NT.

The official name of my church is the Catholic Church.

But not by anyone in the NT.

I belong to the Roman Rite of this Catholic Church.

All Early Church Fathers were Catholics belonging to the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church's official name was already recorded in St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrnaeans in 107 A.D. In that Apostolic Letter, he wrote;

Chapter 8:

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

Ignatius' 15 letters are divided up between outright forgeries/fakes (about 50%) and "interpolations"

 

[bbbbbbb]

What unit of Law is Paul promoting here?

Eph 6:2
2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

What unit of Law (in the actual Bible) is Paul holding up before the NT saints when he instructs us to Honor our parents?

It would be the one where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise" -- and unit of LAW in the Bible - has that feature??

=======================

And in Heb 8:6-10 we are told that JESUS is the one giving the TEN Commandments at Sinai.

So then the NEW Covenant "I will write My LAW on their mind and heart" Jer 31:-31-33

I am unfamiliar with the term "unit of LAW". I cannot find it in my Bible. Perhaps you can direct me to relevant biblical passages which describe such units.

 

[Meowzltov]

Hebrews 8:6-13 does not say that the Ten Commandments were given by CHRIST.

But the ten WERE given by GOD, which is the equivalent of Christ.

 

[Meowzltov]

Not by anyone in the NT.

It was called the Catholic Church pretty early on, BEFORE 108 AD, when Ignatius wrote about the Catholic Church to an audience that was clearly familiar with the term. Ignatius was baptized by Peter and was a student of John, who was still living when the term Catholic Church was in vogue. Clearly that church which was called the Catholic Church was the SAME church that was begun at Pentecost.

 

[Jan001]

But the ten WERE given by GOD, which is the equivalent of Christ.

True, but Hebrews 8:6-13 says nothing particular at all about the "Ten" Commandments.

 

[Jan001]

So then the NEW Covenant "I will write My LAW on their mind and heart" Jer 31:-31-33

What LAW do you think is written on their (our) mind and heart?

 

[Jan001]

Not by anyone in the NT.

Not in specific words. Not everything that was known about the faith was chosen to be written down and not everything that was written about the faith was chosen to be included in the NT Bible.

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. njv

Whole world - universal - catholic.

Ignatius' 15 letters are divided up between outright forgeries/fakes (about 50%) and "interpolations"

The one I quoted is considered to be authentic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

 

[Jan001]

It was called the Catholic Church pretty early on, BEFORE 108 AD, when Ignatius wrote about the Catholic Church to an audience that was clearly familiar with the term. Ignatius was baptized by Peter and was a student of John, who was still living when the term Catholic Church was in vogue. Clearly that church which was called the Catholic Church was the SAME church that was begun at Pentecost.

 

[Meowzltov]

True, but Hebrews 8:6-13 says nothing particular at all about the "Ten" Commandments.

Nothing in the NT singles out the ten. However, ALL 613 commandments were given by God himself, which is the equivalent of Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Nothing in the NT singles out the ten. However, ALL 613 commandments were given by God himself, which is the equivalent of Christ.

Are you sure "nothing" in the NT specifically speaks about the TEN Commandments?

What unit of Law is Paul promoting here?
Eph 6:2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

What unit of Law (in the actual Bible) is Paul holding up before the NT saints when he instructs us to Honor our parents?

 

[BobRyan]

What LAW do you think is written on their (our) mind and heart?

The moral law of God - that which according to Romans 3:19-21 and Romans 7 - defines what sin is.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

 

[BobRyan]

True, but Hebrews 8:6-13 says nothing particular at all about the "Ten" Commandments.

Other than the "Covenant" made with Israel at Sinai that includes the "Ark of the Covenant" that includes the TEN Commandments? - as given "by Christ" according to Heb 8? so then "other than that"??

 

[BobRyan]

Not in specific words. Not everything that was known about the faith was chosen to be written down and not everything that was written about the faith was chosen to be included in the NT Bible.

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. njv
Whole world - universal - catholic.

1. The term "Catholic" is not in the Bible. Not even in Romans 1:8.
2. "spoken throughout the whole Catholic", or "spoken throughout the Catholic" is not a phrase anyone recognizes as being in the Bible nor is it used today that I know of.

 

[Man-ofGod]

Perhaps most, at least some, of us give lip service to that idea. However, is there a particular reason you don't keep all of God's commandments?

This line of questioning is often used to imply that God's commandments are not binding. Jesus says "Strive to enter the straight gate." It is not safe on this side of heaven to say we arrived because we would stop striving and the carnal mind would take over.

This is why Paul in the Spirit could say I die daily and why John could say "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" - 1 John 2:1

and with the same Spirit say,

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

To summarize, does God expect us to establish the law (rom 3:31)? Yes. Is it right to say that we arrived at perfection or say we keep ALL His commandments? No.

--MoG

 

[Meowzltov]

Are you sure "nothing" in the NT specifically speaks about the TEN Commandments?

No. Sometimes one of the ten is quoted, but even then it is simply quoted as an example of one of the 613.

 

[BobRyan]

What unit of Law is Paul promoting here?

Eph 6:2
2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

What unit of Law (in the actual Bible) is Paul holding up before the NT saints when he instructs us to Honor our parents?

No. Sometimes one of the ten is quoted, but even then it is simply quoted as an example of one of the 613.

You did not address the question (unless you actually think that Ex 20:12 is the first of all the 613 that has a promise - as found in the OT).

I know of no Jewish arrangement or Bible arrangement of the 613 that places Ex 20:12 as the first command in that list "with a promise"

 

[Man-ofGod]

Nothing in the NT singles out the ten. However, ALL 613 commandments were given by God himself, which is the equivalent of Christ.

Hi there,

I will take it one step further. The whole of scripture was inspired by Christ and it is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness (2 tim 3:16). What is your point here?



Blessings,
--MoG