If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[bbbbbbb]

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.
Ezekiel 44:9

That is prophetic and has yet to be fulfilled.

 

[Meowzltov]

That is prophetic and has yet to be fulfilled.

It is the commandment upon which Jews based their prohibition of Gentiles entering the temple.

 

[Jan001]

On the contrary -- it is 1000 years.

How do you know this?

 

[Jan001]

On the contrary -- it is 1000 years.




Will happen at the 2nd coming.



On the contrary Christ told those alive 2000 years ago "If I go away I WILL come AGAIN " -- 2nd coming.

And Peter said - many years AFTER the cross "13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; " 1 Peter 1:13

That event - still FUTURE to the time of Peter's writing!

Future to 2Thess 2:1-4

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

We call this man of sin [lawless one] the Antichrist. The Antichrist must come and he will be defeated at the same time that Jesus Christ returns to earth to gather His people to Himself. Jesus will destroy the Antichrist with the glory of His coming/second appearing. The Antichrist will be destroyed by Jesus' command [the breath of His mouth].

The saints on earth will be gathered to Jesus in the air when He comes to defeat Antichrist by the breath of His mouth [His command] and the brightness [glory] of His [second/final] coming.

Jesus will not gather His saints together with Him in the air until the time of His second/final appearing which will not occur until the end of time. Jesus will return to earth and gather His followers to Himself when it is time for the white throne judgment/sheep and goats judgment/etc


And apparently we both agree on that last part.

in Christ,

Bob

Yes, Jesus comes again for His second coming in the future.

However, I believe the white throne judgment begins shortly after His second coming and it seems to me that you believe that there will be a literal one thousand year reign of the saints in heaven with Jesus after His second coming. Please correct me if I have misunderstood you.

When Jesus comes for the second time, I think that the peoples' bodies which are dead will be resurrected and made immortal and these saints will accompany Jesus and His angels to meet the saints on earth in the air. While the saints on earth are rising to meet Jesus in the air, their bodies will be changed form mortal to immortal.

The Second Appearing/Coming

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. nkjv

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. nkjv​

It is my understanding that after Jesus gathers His saints on earth with His saints in heaven in the air at the time of His second coming that it is then time for the white throne judgment.

2 Timothy 4:1
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: nkjv​

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. nkjv
​

Jesus will deliver His kingdom to God the Father shortly after His second coming/appearing. When He does this, He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. After He does this, there will be no saints ruling in heaven with Him. Only God will rule for eternity.

The "thousand years reign" is the time period between Jesus' first coming and His second coming: the church age. All the righteous who die during this time period and enter into heaven will reign spiritually with Jesus until His second/final coming to earth.

The "thousand years" of Satan's chains/diminished power are in this same exact time period between Jesus’ first and second comings except that Satan's full power will be restored shortly before the church age is finished in order to help the Antichrist to deceive the world. Jesus destroys the Antichrist at His second coming.

 

[Jan001]

He was a Jew by parentage because his mother was a Jew - but he could not enter the temple or have the right of a Jew without being circumcised.

Yes, his mother was a Jew, but he had no right to call himself a practicing Jew according to Jewish Law.

 

[Jan001]

He was a Jew by parentage because his mother was a Jew - but he could not enter the temple or have the right of a Jew without being circumcised.

Seems to me that he knew the OT Scriptures, but he was not ever legally a practicing Jew according to Jewish law due to the fact that he had never been circumcised.

2 Timothy 3:14-15
But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. nkjv

​

 

[Jan001]

Sure. But where does this say he is not a Jew?

Where does it say that he is?

 

[Jan001]

Nice, but where you do find that stated in the Bible?

Genesis 17:10
This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised;

Genesis 17:12
He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant.

Genesis 17:14
And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”

 

[BobRyan]

The thousand years is symbolic for a long time period.

On the contrary -- it is 1000 years.

How do you know this?

There is not one example in all of scripture where the Bible says such and such will happen or did happen for 70 years, or 1000 years ... and yet it means "make up whatever amount of time you feel is needed".

Not even once.

Given that irrefutable fact - and the choice of the Protestant principle of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition - the conclusion is inescapable.

 

[BobRyan]

In an effort to return the posts to the actual subject of the thread - notice how Paul affirms the subject here.

Paul said it was obvious that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19
Paul said "do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? on the contrary we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom3:31
Paul said the same moral law of God known to Jeremiah is "written on the mind and heart" of the saints in the NT.
Paul said that only the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-8
Paul said "There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4:9
James said "to break ONE of the Commandments is to break them ALL" James 2
In Heb 8:6-10 Paul said the Commandments at Sinai -- are Christ's Commandments.

Paul quotes from the Sabbath Commandment in Acts and in Hebrews 4 -- he never quotes the 3rd commandment against taking God's name in vain. But that is fine - since the mythical teaching "delete whatever I did not repeat" is nothing that Paul ever taught.

So then more posts on what Paul said about his own teaching -

here

Today at 8:24 AM #1

 

[Jan001]

On the contrary -- it is 1000 years.

There is not one example in all of scripture where the Bible says such and such will happen or did happen for 70 years, or 1000 years ... and yet it means "make up whatever amount of time you feel is needed".

Not even once.

Given that irrefutable fact - and the choice of the Protestant principle of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition - the conclusion is inescapable.

First of all, sola scriptura is not scriptural. This doctrine of sola scriptura is not found anywhere in the Bible.

Secondly, "1000 years" is not necessarily literal according to what Jewish Rabbis say.

The Meaning of “A THOUSAND”

A thousand and its multiples are frequently used in the Bible as round numbers indicating a large amount. Etymologically the Hebrew word elef ("thousand") denotes "a crowd," and hence at times has the sense of "tribe," "clan," or designates a military unit, which does not necessarily comprise 1,000 (Ex. 18:21; Deut. 33:17; Judg. 6:15). Flinders Petrie (Researches in Sinai), interpreting elef to mean a family or tent, reduced the figure for the first census to 5,500, and to 5,730 for the second. Multiples of 1,000 are often hyperbolic expressions (Lev. 26:8; Deut. 32:30; I Sam. 18:7; Ps. 3:7[6]; Song 5:10). Seventy thousand (II Sam. 24:15) and 1,000,000 (Dan. 7:10; I Chron. 21:5; 22:14; II Chron. 14:8) are globular figures indicative of a vast number, while "thousands of ten thousands" (Gen. 24:60) and "ten thousand times ten thousand" (Dan. 7:10) are imaginative numerical ultimates. Similarly high figures are found in Ugaritic literature. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0015_0_14965.html

***********************

2 Peter 3:1-9 “Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” NKJV​

One thousand years is a symbolic number and it indicates a long time. It is not literal. Peter is simply telling his flock that they should not be concerned if Jesus’ Second Coming does not occur in their own time. More people will have time to repent and to be saved if He delays His Second Coming. God is in control! What they need to do is to prepare for their own death and judgment.

 

[BobRyan]

First of all, sola scriptura is not scriptural. This doctrine of sola scriptura is not found anywhere in the Bible.

Until you read the Bible in places like Acts 17:11 and Mark 7


Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things (spoken to them by the Apostle Paul) were SO"

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Notice how the traditions of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai -- are getting hammered "sola scriptura" by Christ in Mark 7??

One thousand years is a symbolic number and it indicates a long time. It is not literal.

That is not true in Rev 20

And it is not true in 2Peter 3 since Peter says " a (literal) DAY is as a 1000 years" for God and at the same time " a (literal) 1000 years is as a DAY" for God. Thus having it both ways - means it is not a timeline at all whereas that is not the case in Rev 20.

The point remains.

(Though it is unclear to me why the subject is going off to areas of prophecy)

 

[Jan001]

Until you read the Bible in places like Acts 17:11 and Mark 7


Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things (spoken to them by the Apostle Paul) were SO"

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Notice how the traditions of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai -- are getting hammered "sola scriptura" by Christ in Mark 7??

In neither of these places does it say that all the truth about the Christian faith is contained in Scripture alone.

The context of Acts 17:11 is that these particular Jews were checking the OT Scriptures to see if what Paul was saying about the fulfillment of the prophecies about Jesus being the Messiah was true.

The context of Mark 7 is that these particular Pharisees were putting their own commandments and traditions above the commandments of God thereby negating God's commandments when they conflicted with their own.

No place in Scripture does it state that everything about the Christian faith is to be limited to Scripture alone.

Instead, Scripture states the following:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. nkjv

The Church's teachings which include both oral traditions and written traditions are the foundation and support of the Christian faith.

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. niv

That is not true in Rev 20

And it is not true in 2Peter 3 since Peter says " a (literal) DAY is as a 1000 years" for God and at the same time " a (literal) 1000 years is as a DAY" for God. Thus having it both ways - means it is not a timeline at all whereas that is not the case in Rev 20.

The point remains.

(Though it is unclear to me why the subject is going off to areas of prophecy)

Peter is not necessarily stating that a (literal) 24-hour DAY on earth for humans is the same as 1000 YEARS to God. This is your interpretation of what Peter is saying and what you understand it to mean is not necessarily what Peter meant it to mean. Eternity is lived in the ever-present and there is no counting of time and therefore a literal 1000 years is irrelevant for this passage.

2 Peter 3:1-10
"Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2 I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare." niv​

Peter is simply telling the Christians that they should always be spiritually prepared for Jesus' return and therefore their knowing the exact date is simply not that important.

RE: Revelation 20

This "1000 years" is actually symbolic for the time period of the Church era on earth and it is the time period between Jesus' first coming and His second coming. There will be no more "1000 years" ruling by any Christians in heaven with Jesus after His second coming. When Jesus returns for His second coming, the elements will be destroyed by fire, the earth will be laid bare, and it will time for the judgment of all people at the white throne.

 

[BobRyan]

Some have supposed that "Sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and tradition is not taught in the Bible --

Until you read the Bible in places like Acts 17:11 and Mark 7


Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things (spoken to them by the Apostle Paul) were SO"

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Notice how the traditions of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai -- are getting hammered "sola scriptura" by Christ in Mark 7??

In neither of these places does it say that all the truth about the Christian faith is contained in Scripture alone.

Rather it shows that all doctrine and tradition is to be tested by scripture.

Even supposedly "infallible" tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai.

The "proof" that the teaching was either error or was valid - came from the method that we see Jesus using in Mark 7 and the saints of Acts 17:11 using

The context of Acts 17:11 is that these particular Jews were checking the OT Scriptures to see if what Paul was saying about the fulfillment of the prophecies about Jesus being the Messiah was true.

The context of Mark 7 is that these particular Pharisees were putting their own commandments and traditions above the commandments of God thereby negating God's commandments when they conflicted with their own.
.

Indeed - and Christ shows the problem via His contrast of scripture with their doctrines and traditions of error.

 

[BobRyan]

One thousand years is a symbolic number and it indicates a long time. It is not literal.

That is not true in Rev 20
And it is not true in 2Peter 3 since Peter says " a (literal) DAY is as a 1000 years" for God and at the same time " a (literal) 1000 years is as a DAY" for God. Thus having it both ways - means it is not a timeline at all whereas that is not the case in Rev 20.
The point remains.

(Though it is unclear to me why the subject is going off to areas of prophecy)

Peter is not necessarily stating that a (literal) 24-hour DAY on earth for humans is the same as 1000 YEARS to God.

The inference you are pouring into the text - is without justification from the text itself.

RE: Revelation 20

This "1000 years" is actually symbolic for the time period of the Church era on earth and it is the time period between Jesus' first coming and His second coming. There will be no more "1000 years"

The inference you are pouring into the text is in direct negation of the text.

The will be 1000 years just as Rev 20 states.


Jesus does not return to earth - until after the 1000 years - and then the elements a melted by the lake of fire.

Before that - Christ's return is as is stated in 1Thess 4- and the saints are caught up in the air - the resurrection of Rev 20:4-5 and that of 1thess 4 - are the same one... the "first resurrection" as the text says.

The point remains.

But I am not clear as to why we are even discussing this in the LAW and Sabbath section.

 

[Jan001]

Rather it shows that all doctrine and tradition is to be tested by scripture.

Even supposedly "infallible" tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai.

The "proof" that the teaching was either error or was valid - came from the method that we see Jesus using in Mark 7 and the saints of Acts 17:11 using

Indeed - and Christ shows the problem via His contrast of scripture with their doctrines and traditions of error.

Mark and Paul were using OT Scripture. NT Scripture was not finalized at that point in time.

What does NT Scripture say about itself?

2 Timothy 3:15-17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. niv

2 Peter 3:16-17
.....our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. niv
​

The church uses Scripture as a tool to help to teach the faith, but Scripture is also hard to understand and therefore we should listen to the overseers/bishops of the church to learn the doctrines of Jesus Christ's church.

Paul states the following:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. nkjv

​

The Church's teachings which include both the oral traditions and the written traditions are the foundation and support/pillar of the Christian faith.

​

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. niv
​

It is the church which is the foundation of the truth. Not Scripture alone. Scripture is one of the tools the church uses to teach the faith. The church also uses its oral traditions which were taught to and then handed down by faithful teachers throughout the ages.

​

2 Timothy 2:2
And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others. niv
​

Not everything taught or done by Jesus is recorded in the Scriptures.

John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. niv

​

 

[Jan001]

The inference you are pouring into the text - is without justification from the text itself.




The inference you are pouring into the text is in direct negation of the text.

The will be 1000 years just as Rev 20 states.


Jesus does not return to earth - until after the 1000 years - and then the elements a melted by the lake of fire.

Before that - Christ's return is as is stated in 1Thess 4- and the saints are caught up in the air - the resurrection of Rev 20:4-5 and that of 1thess 4 - are the same one... the "first resurrection" as the text says.

The point remains.

But I am not clear as to why we are even discussing this in the LAW and Sabbath section.

We will agree to disagree.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Rather it shows that all doctrine and tradition is to be tested by scripture.

Even supposedly "infallible" tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai.

The "proof" that the teaching was either error or was valid - came from the method that we see Jesus using in Mark 7 and the saints of Acts 17:11 using

Indeed - and Christ shows the problem via His contrast of scripture with their doctrines and traditions of error.

Mark and Paul were using OT Scripture. NT Scripture was not finalized at that point in time.

That is true - but it is irrelevant except to show that sola scriptura testing is ALSO valid while scripture is still being compiled/generated/written - not just aftewards when it is static and sealed.

Making the case against "sola scriptura" even weaker.

 

[BABerean2]

On the contrary -- it is 1000 years.



There is not one example in all of scripture where the Bible says such and such will happen or did happen for 70 years, or 1000 years ... and yet it means "make up whatever amount of time you feel is needed".

Not even once.

Given that irrefutable fact - and the choice of the Protestant principle of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition - the conclusion is inescapable.

Millennial Choice…


All of us have to make the choice of making some unit of time not "literal".

We have "hour" and "all" in John chapter 5, where Jesus indicates a simultaneous resurrection of both the Godly and the ungodly.



Joh 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.



Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice


Joh 5:29 and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.


We have the same simultaneous resurrection from Job 14:12, Daniel 12:1-3, Paul in Acts 24:15, and John in Rev. 11:18.



Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."


We have Jesus discussing the resurrection at the "last day" in John chapter 6.


Martha confirmed this understanding after the death of her brother Lazarus.


How many days come after the last day?

Some claim the word "thousand" cannot be figurative. Well, let us see...


Psa_50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

God owns all of the hills. However, in the verse above the word "thousand" is used to represent a very large number.


We can redefine all of these other units of time, from several different witnesses, and get a 1,000 year reign of Christ after His Second Coming, where sin and death continue, by making some assumptions...




...or we can understand that John saw the "souls" of those who died in-Christ living and reigning with Christ in heaven for a very long (1,000) time before the return of Christ. This is a reference to the length of time that the souls reign, but it does not discuss how long Christ reigns. His reign is given as forever in Rev. chapter 11.

The 1,000 year reign of Christ is an assumption, not found in the text.


If I married the Queen of England in the future, at some point in time the historians might write about how long I reigned with her.


However, that would not be the length of her reign, which would be much longer.

We should all be bothered by the idea of mortals living to a very old age, but still dying after the return of Christ.
Would Christ perform their funeral service?
Where would their souls go, since Christ is here?
If the Christians are ruling over these mortals during the 1,000 years we must do a terrible job if they rebel against Christ.
Does Christ just let Satan out of the pit and allow him to foment a rebellion, all while Christ is in control of the planet?

We also know God has already bound wicked angels in chains.


2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


These questions have caused me to reject the premill position.

I also do not see things getting better, so therefore I have also discarded the postmill view.

Amill means, No Millennium, which is an unfortunate term.

The only way to prevent a tremendous conflict in scripture is to understand that the 1,000 years is a symbol that represents the whole "Church Age".

The One who defeated sin and death at the Cross is not going to rule over a world where death and sin remain at his Second Coming.

He brings the New Heavens and the New Earth with Him when He returns.



1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.


1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


1Th 5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.


1Th 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.



2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.


2Pe 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,


2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?


2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

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[BobRyan]

I am confused about one thing - why is it that on Bible-and-the-Sabbath threads we have "eschatology" as the focus and on eschatology 2300 years of Dan 8 - threads we have "Bible and the Sabbath" as the focus.???