If you kill someone

[KWCrazy]

staff edit.

People who have never been in a firefight haven't earned the right to criticize what others do in the heat of battle.

George Zimmerman should be locked up for the rest of his life too.

Zimmerman defended himself against a felonious assault from a young punk who was reportedly trying to get his gun. When you attack a man like Martin did they have the right to defend themselves, even if it meant deadly force.

Personally, I probably would have shot Martin too rather than allow him to get my gun and shoot me.

Anyone who calls the action murder is deliberately and intentionally stating a lie for which they should be ashamed. Over the course of the George Zimmerman trial (June 10-July 13, 2013), 54 people were killed in gunshot homicides in Chicago alone. All but four of them were males. In 31 percent of the killings, the victim was 19 years of age or younger. 76 percent of those victims were black. Why are people still obsessing over this act of self-defense?

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I do not believe Zimmerman was acting in self defense. I watched the whole trial. He was following Martin because he didn't think the black punk should be in his community when Martin was actually staying with his dad that lived there. The 911 dispatch told him not to follow Martin, but he followed him anyway and then they ended up in a confrontation. I believe Zimmerman was abusing his "authority" of being a neighborhood watch to being a wannabe cop and taking out the trash in his opinion. Martin would not be dead, and neither would Zimmerman if Zimmerman had not brought a gun to the fight.

 

[dustinthewind]

That's what a gunnery sergeant does...
Run around and put their neck out for others, bark orders (sometimes coming down from some 2-year butter bar), and make sure their troops are staying safe and under cover, all while still fighting. Every single one of those guys is his responsibility. You can imagine the grief that comes from losing one of them. And I'm sure he lost many over the years.

I was lucky to be safe on a forward operating base in Afghanistan. We have Starbucks and Burger King and air conditioned barracks. It's the same as being back home basically. I have total admiration for our grunts who are out there engaging like this on an almost constant basis, sleeping in the dirt without showering for weeks or months, and eating nasty MRE's day after day. The best thing Dan could have told me was to join the Navy instead of Marines.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

I think Zimmerman acted stupidly. If you are safely in your car and see someone suspicious, you don't get out and stalk/confront him. Martin might not have been an angel but it should not make one a target to be seen Walking While Black. I'm very much pro-gun. But your best weapons are your eyes and your brain - your gun is down on the list. Some people "think" with their trigger finger because they think it makes them tough.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I am pro gun too and Zimmerman was power happy with his gun and nothing without it. He has demonstated that since his acquittal too.

 

[KWCrazy]

I think Zimmerman acted stupidly. If you are safely in your car and see someone suspicious, you don't get out and stalk/confront him.

He was a member of the neighborhood watch and he was watching while on the cell phone to the 911 operator. He was never told NOT to follow Martin, but when it was suggested that he did he stopped and went back to his truck. Martin dropped off some things on his father's porch and went after Zimmerman, jumping from behind and beating him mercilessly. According to the only living witness within hearing distance, Martin saw the gun and told Zimmerman he was going to die. At that point Zimmerman rightly used deadly force. The only reason he was ever arrested is because a CORRUPT media outlet doctored the 911 tape to make it sound like Zimmerman was racially motivated when all he did was to answer a question asked by the dispatcher.

Martin wasn't killed because he was walking. That's a rather disgusting lie. He wasn't killed because he was black. He wasn't stalked or murdered. He was killed because he brought his fists to a gun fight. He attacked the wrong man and paid the penalty for it. There was never an indication that Zimmerman was trying to be tough by acting gun-happy.

It's very sad how so many can distort the truth just to make a point. The facts of the case are in the public record. Zimmerman did nothing wrong. Get over it.

 

[KWCrazy]

I was lucky to be safe on a forward operating base in Afghanistan. We have Starbucks and Burger King and air conditioned barracks.

Thank you for your service.
My nephew is now back in Afghanistan for his fourth combat tour after two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. He's an E6 sergeant in the 82nd Airborne.

Sadly most Americans don't seem to appreciate the sacrifices made by few so that so many can live in peace.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

He was a member of the neighborhood watch and he was watching while on the cell phone to the 911 operator. He was never told NOT to follow Martin, but when it was suggested that he did he stopped and went back to his truck. Martin dropped off some things on his father's porch and went after Zimmerman, jumping from behind and beating him mercilessly. According to the only living witness within hearing distance, Martin saw the gun and told Zimmerman he was going to die. At that point Zimmerman rightly used deadly force. The only reason he was ever arrested is because a CORRUPT media outlet doctored the 911 tape to make it sound like Zimmerman was racially motivated when all he did was to answer a question asked by the dispatcher.

Martin wasn't killed because he was walking. That's a rather disgusting lie. He wasn't killed because he was black. He wasn't stalked or murdered. He was killed because he brought his fists to a gun fight. He attacked the wrong man and paid the penalty for it. There was never an indication that Zimmerman was trying to be tough by acting gun-happy.

It's very sad how so many can distort the truth just to make a point. The facts of the case are in the public record. Zimmerman did nothing wrong. Get over it.

I don't know where you are getting your facts from but none of this was any part of the trial. I watched all of it and it was only Zimmerman that said to police about the "your gonna die" comment. Where is the evidence that he dropped stuff off on his father's porch? And how could they have any confrontation if Zimmerman is sitting quietly in his car? Where the incident happened was no where near where his car was parked. And it was Zimmerman that said to police that there had been break in's and he thought it was young black punks and so when he saw Martin he assumed he was one of them. He assumed he didn't belong there when in fact he did. And he wasn't a "member" of the neighborhood watch, he appointed himself to that position and on that particular night according to Zimmerman himself he was on his way to Target, he was not "on duty" in his neighborhood. And on the 911 call (or one of them) I heard the dispatch ask him "are you following him?" to which he answered yes and then they said "OK we don't need you to do that" to which he said OK but I don't believe for one minute he got back in his car, because if he did, he would have lost sight of Martin. I don't think it was because of race alone, I think that he just wanted to stop a potential robbery and didn't want the kid to get away, but then they had their confrontation and Zimmerman shot Martin.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

As usual, it is used by the left to argue that this is proof that the average citizen can't be trusted to make a lot of personal decisions, like whether to own a gun. And those on the far right are not doing those of us who want to own guns a favor when you keep presenting Zimmerman as some sort of hero or role model.

 

[blackribbon]

The American Revolution was won by privately owned guns. There was no such thing as military issue. No money for it. Our Bill of Rights was to protect the right of private citizens to own and use guns...and to protect them from a tyrannical government.

The ability to feel emotions and act on them comes from very specific areas of the brain. If those areas of the brain are damaged, the ability to control your emotions can be damaged too....no different than a slam to the back of your head can render a person blind even though the actual eyes are fine. This is why some people have impulse control problems after brain injury. If certain areas of the brain were damaged, a person who previous had the ability to control strong emotions like anger might lose that ability. Though therapy, sometimes other neural routes can be trained to take over but in some people it just might be permanent damage.

And Chinchillin, I read the things that you wrote to Dan on this forum and they were nothing short of malicious and evil. They were not "opinions" but statement designed to hurt him and hurt him deeply. Just because someone has "cleaned" your evil words off of the thread does not mean they cleaned them out of our minds. I can only speculate what you had written to him on other forums areas. There was no love in any of your posts. And your hate-filled words didn't stop at Dan but continued to disparaged his wife in ways I'd be horrified to have read about myself. The saddest thing is that I am starting to believe that you don't the remotest idea of how awful your posts were. Dan had a reason for his anger and self-control issues. What is yours? There must be one.

 

[bobross]

Chinchilla, you win dude. You win. None of us wish we had to be in the military, but some people just do. I didn't have any other option. I'm sorry.

Thanks for your service, Elderado. Your buddy was an amazing man. Thanks for letting us get to know him more than just the sad, broken man we knew.

 

[iambren]

I don't watch tv that has racial overtones in it,the racial banter is old,repetitive,and frankly boring. So I know little about the Zimmerman case.

My views on killing are pretty hardcore: I believe in killing anyone who threatens my life,my peace of mind and safety, or is in any way a threat to those I love and is in my care.

I believe all murders,solid rapists,and childmolesters if proven guilty should be given the death penalty.

If a woman was repeatedly stalked/harassed over time and she drug him into her house and shot him I give no blame.

I do not own a gun though several people in my family do. Our security team at church,most of them carry. I think we need to get back to the mindset that life is precious and is worthy to be defended. It's such a waste to feed and maintain or babysit those who have taken life. There also is the threat that they breakout and more life is taken OR by some legal machinations they are freed only to go out and hurt others again---just ask Jesse Duggard.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

Sorry - a clean up was done after a member posted inappropriate stuff in here. The posts responding to those inappropriate posts were removed in clean up

 

[Randoman]

killing is wrong. period. zimmerman should be locked up right now for a very, very long time. participating in war as a Christian is also wrong. we are promised that the LORD will take care of it all for us. we are not to take up the sword.

matthew 26:52-53
52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

What are your thoughts about killing someone and possibly getting away with it. I don't mean any of us would be thinking of doing this. I am watching the Zimmerman/Martin trial and it's not disputed that Zimmerman killed Martin, but he says it was self defense but regardless he shot a 17 year old kid dead.
For me, I think even if it WAS self defense, he should still do some time. For me, it's no different than if you "accidentally" kill someone while driving in a car and an accident happens. You maybe didn't TRY to have an accident or kill anyone, but alot of times if someone dies, you will be charged with any number of charges, but it could even be involuntary manslaughter.

There are alot of people that think Zimmerman should be acquitted. And it just makes me think "wow, so we now have a society that in "some" cases, it is actually OK to murder someone?

What do you think?

First, its extremely hard to get away with a murder given the technology and forensic evidence that is at every crime scene (or, on/in the victims body) .

As to the last question...it is never ok to murder someone but it is ok under very tight standards to kill another in true self defense if you are in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death . In Florida here, we have the Stand your Ground Law...and its a good law to protect the innocent but such a Law is always going to be used inappropriately . As for Mr. Z . , without being there at the crime scene its difficult to say if his life was truly being endangered even if his head took a couple bangs to the concrete during the struggle on the ground. The reality of the Zimmerman case is that all of it could have been totally avoided had he waited for the police to come...even if he were already out of his car ; he didn't have to pursue the Black kid and I believe the reason he did was two-fold : 1. He had developed a racial profile from past encounters of crime in his own neighborhood 2. He felt empowered having a gun on him and it overrode good sense to wait . Based on these facts, even if he was justified in taking the Black kids life .....he should get some jail time for precipitating the whole scenario that eventually went down.

As is my Florida law right, I carry concealed but am always reviewing in my mind what constitutes the use of my gun on another Person and the self control and wisdom which MUST accompany the right to carry .

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Well David, after long and thoughtful consideration, I have come to determine that last night while I slept the Earth must have tilted on it's axis or some other unexplained phenomenon must have occurred because it's the only explanation I can come up with for agreeing with you!
But it's true, if Zimmerman would have just stayed in his car or not brought his gun with him Martin would have been alive today.

And the only thing I have to say, is that while it may be difficult to get away with murder forensically, our courts seem to be making it easier for people to get away with murder. And one of the big cases is in FL. Of course here in my state, we still have someone waiting penalty phase trial because even though she admitted to killing her BF the jury could not agree to give her the death penalty or life so.....sometimes the courts let people walk because of all these rules we have in place that protect the criminal more than the victim.

 

[bhsmte]

Well David, after long and thoughtful consideration, I have come to determine that last night while I slept the Earth must have tilted on it's axis or some other unexplained phenomenon must have occurred because it's the only explanation I can come up with for agreeing with you!
But it's true, if Zimmerman would have just stayed in his car or not brought his gun with him Martin would have been alive today.

And the only thing I have to say, is that while it may be difficult to get away with murder forensically, our courts seem to be making it easier for people to get away with murder. And one of the big cases is in FL. Of course here in my state, we still have someone waiting penalty phase trial because even though she admitted to killing her BF the jury could not agree to give her the death penalty or life so.....sometimes the courts let people walk because of all these rules we have in place that protect the criminal more than the victim.

Correct, if Zimmerman stays in his truck the event likely never happens.

But, to tell the entire story, if Martin would have went home when he had the chance and not decided to circle back to confront Zimmerman, the event also would not have happened. Testimony and evidence produced at the trial, showed a significant amount of time passed from the time Martin told his girlfriend he was right next to his home and when the confrontation took place with Zimmerman.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I agree. We can coulda shoulda woulda all we want. I would be equally upset if it had been Martin with the gun that shot Zimmerman. Responsible gun owners do not use their weapons to increase their power. If I had some creep following me and I didn't know who he was or why he was following me, the last thing I would want to do is let him know where I lived. He also had a little brother at the house. I'm not saying what Martin did was right, because I would not have tried to come around to Zimmerman, I would have went somewhere else to lose him so he could not follow me, but that's me and who's to say I would even actually do that if I found myself in that situation, but I would be scared, but then I'm a girl too so...

I do not want my gun rights taken away, even though I don't have a gun or carry one, I want the right to if I feel the need to.

It's just too bad that Zimmerman felt the need to use his weapon or to even carry it in this situation.

 

[bhsmte]

I agree. We can coulda shoulda woulda all we want. I would be equally upset if it had been Martin with the gun that shot Zimmerman. Responsible gun owners do not use their weapons to increase their power. If I had some creep following me and I didn't know who he was or why he was following me, the last thing I would want to do is let him know where I lived. He also had a little brother at the house. I'm not saying what Martin did was right, because I would not have tried to come around to Zimmerman, I would have went somewhere else to lose him so he could not follow me, but that's me and who's to say I would even actually do that if I found myself in that situation, but I would be scared, but then I'm a girl too so...

I do not want my gun rights taken away, even though I don't have a gun or carry one, I want the right to if I feel the need to.

It's just too bad that Zimmerman felt the need to use his weapon or to even carry it in this situation.

I don't own a gun or like guns personally, but I respect one's right to own and carry a weapon.

The Zimmerman case had bad decisions on both sides, but there is no evidence that Zimmerman broke any law, but there is some evidence that Martin broke laws when he circled back to attack Zimmerman and pound his head against the cement, which is assault.

Here is the deal, Zimmerman called the police so he knew they were arriving, why would he pull out his weapon willy nilly if he knew police could be there at any moment? Martin did not know the police were coming and if by chance, the police would have arrived when Martin was on top of Zimmerman pounding his head against the ground and were able to break it up, there is little question, Martin would have been arrested for assault.

In reality, this case never should have went to trial, it was only political pressure that caused it to happen. We had the guy a couple weeks ago leave his house when a 70 year old guy was pounding on his door, confronted the guy outside and shot him when the man was not armed. Police did not charge the guy, because they said there was little chance of winning a conviction. When you compare the justification of shooting in both cases with the evidence, the guy that shot the 70 year old should have been prosecuted and Zimmerman should not have been.

It was a sad situation, but we have to deal with the reality of the facts.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

Correct, if Zimmerman stays in his truck the event likely never happens.

But, to tell the entire story, if Martin would have went home when he had the chance and not decided to circle back to confront Zimmerman, the event also would not have happened. Testimony and evidence produced at the trial, showed a significant amount of time passed from the time Martin told his girlfriend he was right next to his home and when the confrontation took place with Zimmerman.

I agree with David, and this. Both parties acted stupidly. But since Z was armed he had a great responsibility to not escalate the situation. Nothing about stand your ground, really, although the media tries to make that the issue.