If You Believe in White Privilege

[RDKirk]

It didn't. Which is why I was surprised when you replied with "I just told you they did" when I inquired about them not knowing about bias in regards to race.

Supervisors were unaware of many kinds of biases, race and gender being two of the most common.

In the late 90s, I had to deal with subordinates with metal piercings. A funny story:

At one point I had a new troop coming in on a Sunday afternoon, and I went to meet her at the airport. I was in uniform, although I didn't expect her to be in uniform. I walked to the luggage area where I expected to see her and her husband, looked around, didn't see anyone likely, and continued walking.

Then I stopped and realized there had been an outlaw biker couple--body full of tats and metal piercings--that I'd walked right past, and they'd been looking intently at me as I passed.

I turned around and looked again. Sure enough, that "outlaw biker" couple were my sergeant and her husband.

Now, when I saw her the next day, the metal was removed and her uniform covered the tattoos. She looked "normal" to my eye. But I realized I had to make a mental adjustment about what I'd first thought at first glance and not let that affect how I judged her work into the future.

 

[RDKirk]

Supervisors were unaware of many kinds of biases, race and gender being two of the most common.

I think that it really depends on individual circumstances. Someone white or of color who grew up in a diverse multicultural community will be less affected and show less bias when hiring people and deciding who to hang out with than people who grow up around majority their own people. So for example in Harlem NY which has a significant black population, "White privilege" will not be a significant barrier to people in that community.

I still have high hopes that it will indeed disappear when the last generation that was raised from childhood in apartheid has deceased. We Boomers were raised as children to believe that segregation is the social norm, and deep within our psyches, that belief remains to a greater or lesser degree.

 

[A_Thinker]

Those are all things I can get without introducing a term that most people who use it are using as a weapon rather than an informational tool.

I would hazard that the terminology is being used in an attempt to re-engage white America in the task of mitigating the discrimination which still exist in our society. There was a fear that white America had disengaged itself from this effort, on the basis that they shared no blame for the situation.

This may have been an attempt to draw them back to the hard work of curbing discrimination, ... based upon the fact that they are still enjoying the benefits of the discriminations of there forefathers.

 

[Moral Orel]

Sorry man...couldn't tell that was a joke...

These days you gotta be pretty obvious about it on this topic. I've heard people say things like "cops are never rude/disrespectful to white people" and were 100% serious about it.

Okay, I got another example. Tell me if this counts. Us white folk can get into a time machine and go to literally any time and things would be great there! Black people can't go anywhere before about 1980 without having serious concerns about running into trouble. Actually, I take that back. Us white folk can go to any time in the past. After all the shenanigans we've been up to, I don't want to know what they're going to do to us in the future! But for now, WHEEEEEE!


That's an old Louis CK bit. To anyone wondering, yes I know what he did, and no that won't make me stop telling his jokes. The jokes didn't stop being funny.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What term should we use to preserve the comfort of white people, but still speak of this phenomenon?

What's the need for discussing the phenomenon other than as an academic curiosity?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Supervisors were unaware of many kinds of biases, race and gender being two of the most common.

In the late 90s, I had to deal with subordinates with metal piercings. A funny story:

At one point I had a new troop coming in on a Sunday afternoon, and I went to meet her at the airport. I was in uniform, although I didn't expect her to be in uniform. I walked to the luggage area where I expected to see her and her husband, looked around, didn't see anyone likely, and continued walking.

Then I stopped and realized there had been an outlaw biker couple--body full of tats and metal piercings--that I'd walked right past, and they'd been looking intently at me as I passed.

I turned around and looked again. Sure enough, that "outlaw biker" couple were my sergeant and her husband.

Now, when I saw her the next day, the metal was removed and her uniform covered the tattoos. She looked "normal" to my eye. But I realized I had to make a mental adjustment about what I'd first thought at first glance and not let that affect how I judged her work into the future.

Well, exactly.

She wouldn't have gotten to a sergeant in the US army without basic abilities. And tattoos and piercings are what many women do confidently - if not always in evidence.

 

[mama2one]

What's the need for discussing the phenomenon other than as an academic curiosity?

tell us since this is your thread about "white privilege"

 

[Ana the Ist]

If I may jump in here for a second and say on thing about this.......I think there has been a misinterpretation of the term "White Privilege." I can't speak for everyone's application of the term but the way I understand it and the way I think it is meant to be understood, it does not actually mean that all white people have a special privilege or are privileged people who have been placed in a successful position by being born white. The term is used to describe the social prder in the country that allows white males the be the heads of 99% of all Fortune 500 companies for example. In simpler terms As race goes, Whited are the"King of the Hill"

You're talking about a "social order" as if it were a person choosing who it likes the best. Even as recently as 1900...the US population was almost 90% white. So even if slavery had never happened, if Jim Crow never existed, why wouldn't you expect there to be more wealthy whites than any other race?

I talk about it because I believe the more people are aware of it, the less it will apply. The more white men are aware of this kind of hierarchy, the more they may question their innermost self about their perception of other ethnicities? Even the most well meaning people have their racial bias deep down. That is why it still exists even after all the civil rights laws have been passed and we are so far in the future..

Studies have shown that being made aware of racial biases does nothing to change them. You can't simply talk your way out of subconscious thoughts.

 

[Ana the Ist]

tell us since this is your thread about "white privilege"

I thought the purpose of this thread was pretty well outlined in the OP....was there a part you didn't understand?

The term gets used as a catch-all explanation of any difference between whites and blacks. For example, in an earlier post someone tried to claim that their lack of fear when talking to a cop was a result of white privilege. Obviously that's wrong, since anyone can be afraid of the police...even whites...and not every black person is afraid of them. The idea that all black people feel a certain way and all white people feel a certain way is just plain old racism...calling it white privilege doesn't change that.

I'm not trying to dispel every way the term gets misused. I simply wanted to focus on those claims that tie white privilege to wealth or financial success.

The question I asked you has to do with white privilege being such a prevalent topic. If it's based off of a subconscious bias, then what makes it so important? There's a ton of subconscious biases that may or may not affect our behavior in different ways. We know, for example, there's a bias that favors tall people over short people in different ways. We also know that statistically, taller people are promoted to managerial positions at work more often than short people. What we cannot know, is that the reason why they are promoted more often is because of their height.

 

[tall73]

I would hazard that the terminology is being used in an attempt to re-engage white America in the task of mitigating the discrimination which still exist in our society. There was a fear that white America had disengaged itself from this effort, on the basis that they shared no blame for the situation.

I don't think that is helping them engage in a positive way.

For the younger generations it doesn't resonate because they legitimately do not share the blame for the situation of the past. But more than that, for many of them, they don't have the same level of bias that was drilled into past generations.

It would be like constantly trying to sell weight loss pills to someone at a normal weight. The prescription doesn't fit, and they are not interested. And they wonder why you keep trying to sell them something that they don't need.

And if a white person who doesn't consider themselves a racist actually wants to help by aligning with the cause, and they are told, "you are still a racist too", that doesn't exactly inspire them to help. How can you help curb racism if the lead message is that you have, and will continue to have, racist thoughts, even if you do not realize it. Well then the message itself fights against the notion of what you want to accomplish--curbing racism.

Why not rather be glad that there are a large portion of people who now don't consider themselves to be racists, and interact with everyone without fear or without concern? Build on that.

Now as to still enjoying the benefits, again, they are enjoying the "benefits" of being treated as a person should. I don't say children who are not abused have a "non-abuse privilege". I say that the children who were abused had a horrible thing happen to them, that in many cases disadvantaged them, and it is tragic.

 

[mama2one]

I thought the purpose of this thread was pretty well outlined in the OP....was there a part you didn't understand?

I simply wanted to focus on those claims that tie white privilege to wealth or financial success.

The question I asked you has to do with white privilege being such a prevalent topic. If it's based off of a subconscious bias, then what makes it so important?

apparently, I didn't understand your "purpose" for starting thread

now that read "claim" in above sentence, then imagine that you personally don't believe there is such a thing as "white privilege"

what makes it important?
the fact that it exists

 

[PeachyKeane]

I don't think that is helping them engage in a positive way.

For the younger generations it doesn't resonate because they legitimately do not share the blame for the situation of the past. But more than that, for many of them, they don't have the same level of bias that was drilled into past generations.

It would be like constantly trying to sell weight loss pills to someone at a normal weight. The prescription doesn't fit, and they are not interested. And they wonder why you keep trying to sell them something that they don't need.

And if a white person who doesn't consider themselves a racist actually wants to help by aligning with the cause, and they are told, "you are still a racist too", that doesn't exactly inspire them to help. How can you help curb racism if the lead message is that you have, and will continue to have, racist thoughts, even if you do not realize it. Well then the message itself fights against the notion of what you want to accomplish--curbing racism.

Do people like being told that they're a sinner? If someone doesn't consider themselves a sinner, does that mean they're not?

Why not rather be glad that there are a large portion of people who now don't consider themselves to be racists, and interact with everyone without fear or without concern? Build on that.

Nobody considers themselves a racist. Klan members will tell you they're not racist. That doesn't mean the problem if racism is solved.

 

[tall73]

Do people like being told that they're a sinner? If someone doesn't consider themselves a sinner, does that mean they're not?



Nobody considers themselves a racist. Klan members will tell you they're not racist. That doesn't mean the problem if racism is solved.

You can't tell the difference between people who routinely hang out with people of all races, and Klan members?

 

[tall73]

If you want to go on with the cheery message of everyone is a racist and will be a racist no matter what, then go ahead. But if someone can never please you, they eventually stop trying.

There is no good news in your race gospel if all you are telling people is that they are racists, and will always be racist. It would be as if the only message delivered in Scripture is that you are a sinner, and have no hope in the judgment, so just deal with it. That was not the gospel.

The gospel is that you are a sinner but there is forgiveness for your sins. And God wants to live in you by His Spirit and live out His righteousness in you.

You need some good news in your message.

 

[tall73]

Do people like being told that they're a sinner? If someone doesn't consider themselves a sinner, does that mean they're not?

I already spelled out at more length the analogy to a sinner. Realizing I am a sinner does not solve my sin problem. Christ's sacrifice forgives sin, but also Christ wants to live in us by His Spirit. Keeping in step with the Spirit, not continually focusing on my sinful nature, is the key to the Christian life.

 

[PeachyKeane]

You can't tell the difference between people who routinely hang out with people of all races, and Klan members?

That's not quite what I mean. I'm saying that just because someone says they're not racist, doesn't mean they're not racist.

 

[PeachyKeane]

I already spelled out at more length the analogy to a sinner. Realizing I am a sinner does not solve my sin problem. Christ's sacrifice forgives sin, but also Christ wants to live in us by His Spirit. Keeping in step with the Spirit, not continually focusing on my sinful nature, is the key to the Christian life.

Well, right. How's that different?

 

[tall73]

That's not quite what I mean. I'm saying that just because someone says they're not racist, doesn't mean they're not racist.

But if your only message continually is "glad you recognized your racism, now remember, you still have lots more racism to recognize" there is no point.

That is hopeless groveling forever over something you say you can't even recognize.

 

[tall73]

Well, right. How's that different?

How is it different to focus on your sins, or focus on Jesus? Considerably different.

 

[tall73]

Well, right. How's that different?

Reposting this as I am not sure if you would see where I edited before.

There is no good news in your race gospel if all you are telling people is that they are racists, and will always be racist. It would be as if the only message delivered in Scripture is that you are a sinner, and have no hope in the judgment, so just deal with it. That was not the gospel.

The gospel is that you are a sinner but there is forgiveness for your sins. And God wants to live in you by His Spirit and live out His righteousness in you.

You need some good news in your message.