If we have no laws to keep,how can we be judged on judgement day if there is no laws to judge us by?

[bugkiller]

My goodness, will you read Galatians in proper context and stop cherry picking to make ridiculous arguments. The whole issue in Galatians was they the circumcision party was going around and saying you must be circumcised in order to be saved and no where in the Torah does it say that anywhere, so they were pushing a their own rabbinical teachings and elevating over the commands of God. God said we are to circumcise our hearts, so in the verses you quoted out of context, it is pretty simple, if you rely on physical circumcision as your salvation, Christ is of no effect to you, because you have rejected his free gift of salvation in favor of some man made rabbinical teachings.

I have no problem with Paul at all, I just know how to read his writings in proper context and dont put him against Jesus like you do.

Again another scripture you take out of context is James 2, but since you pretty much are a cherry picker and arrogantly take scriptures out of context all the time to try to make a point, im not even surprised anymore. James 2 is saying dont show favoritism. The penalty for breaking one command is the same as the next, as the penalty for sin is death. IT IS NOT SAYING, since you cant keep the commandments perfectly dont bother trying at all, as no one in the bible has kept the commands perfectly except Jesus. We are humans and we slip up, and that is where the blood of Christ covers us for our sins when we repent and ask for forgiveness.

James 2:1-10 (NKJV)
Beware of Personal Favoritism
2 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to berich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

The blue bolded is the only thing that applies to my post. James says very clearly it all the law. As such you fall far short. May I also remind you of Rom 3:23. Wages are earned rights which you hold over people to enter heaven (Rev 22:14). Problem those wages are death. God offers life only thru Jesus the Christ. Rom 6:23 Read the Gospels, especially John 10. Anyone who tries to get into except by Jesus is a thief. If you maintain that the Christian must also keep the 10 Cs to be righteous (not sin) that is works for righteousness adding to the requirement for salvation and will be rewarded with death (eternal separation from God).

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Once again, not every command applies to everyone, as some commands are for kings only , priest only, farmers only, men only, women only, require a temple, or to be in the nation of Israel, which has been gone over many times. Stop replying for the sake of an argument if you have nothing constructive to add or scriptures to back your argument.

You missed -

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. LK 24

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

In other words those who are under Grace are spiritual Christians while those who are under the Law are carnal (not spiritual) Christians.

Not quite. Those who under the law aren't Christians. Those who claim to be Christians and follow some version of the law are carnal Christians trying to appease God with works and refusing to fully accept God's grace. I'll let everyone make their own mind about what I said. I'll say that organized religion almost cost me my relationship with God by their partial law gospel preached and practiced in most every religious organization.

bugkiller

 

[Sophrosyne]

Not quite. Those who under the law aren't Christians. Those who claim to be Christians and follow some version of the law are carnal Christians trying to appease God with works and refusing to fully accept God's grace. I'll let everyone make their own mind about what I said. I'll say that organized religion almost cost me my relationship with God by their partial law gospel preached and practiced in most every religious organization.

bugkiller

I give those who are under the Law as Christian the benefit of the doubt..... for ignorance thereof.

 

[BobRyan]

Since many claim the laws were nailed to the cross or abolished, how can Jesus possibly judge us or anyone if there are no laws to judge us by, since they were supposedly abolished and nailed to the cross or Christians werent obligated to keep any commands of God?

This would be like going to court for speeding on a road with no speed limits!

Some Christians claim to have the "LAW of God written on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8:6-10 under God's NEW Covenant -- but others will claim that this is a bad idea - or that is it for some future time and not for them.

Each one has free will.

 

[bugkiller]

Some Christians claim to have the "LAW of God written on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8:6-10 under God's NEW Covenant -- but others will claim that this is a bad idea - or that is it for some future time and not for them.

Each one has free will.

Yep I'll make that claim. Your problem is it isn't the covenant law issued to Israel.

bugkiller

 

[Steeno7]

The Christian's "judgement" will be for works, not sins. And those works will be judged on the basis of the origin of them.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Since many claim the laws were nailed to the cross or abolished, how can Jesus possibly judge us or anyone if there are no laws to judge us by, since they were supposedly abolished and nailed to the cross or Christians werent obligated to keep any commands of God?

This would be like going to court for speeding on a road with no speed limits!

Which laws?

Some laws were fulfilled and are now obsolete under a new covenant, do you not agree?

"The Old Testament devotes a good amount of space to describing the various sacrifices that were to be offered in the tabernacle (and later temple) to atone for sin so that worshippers could approach a holy God. As part of that sacrificial system there was also a complex set of rules for ceremonial purity and cleanness. You could only approach God in worship if you ate certain foods and not others, wore certain forms of dress, refrained from touching a variety of objects, and so on. This vividly conveyed, over and over, that human beings are spiritually unclean and can’t go into God’s presence without purification.

But even in the Old Testament, many writers hinted that the sacrifices and the temple worship regulations pointed forward to something beyond them. (cf. 1 Samuel 15:21-22; Psalm 50:12-15; 51:17; Hosea 6:6). When Christ appeared he declared all foods ‘clean’ (Mark 7:19) and he ignored the Old Testament clean laws in other ways, touching lepers and dead bodies.

But the reason is made clear. When he died on the cross the veil in the temple was ripped through, showing that the need for the entire sacrificial system with all its clean laws had been done away with. Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice for sin, and now Jesus makes us “clean.” (Tim Keller http://www.redeemer.com/redeemer-report/article/old_testament_law_and_the_charge_of_inconsistency)​

 

[SAAN]

Which laws?

Some laws were fulfilled and are now obsolete under a new covenant, do you not agree?

"The Old Testament devotes a good amount of space to describing the various sacrifices that were to be offered in the tabernacle (and later temple) to atone for sin so that worshippers could approach a holy God. As part of that sacrificial system there was also a complex set of rules for ceremonial purity and cleanness. You could only approach God in worship if you ate certain foods and not others, wore certain forms of dress, refrained from touching a variety of objects, and so on. This vividly conveyed, over and over, that human beings are spiritually unclean and can’t go into God’s presence without purification.

But even in the Old Testament, many writers hinted that the sacrifices and the temple worship regulations pointed forward to something beyond them. (cf. 1 Samuel 15:21-22; Psalm 50:12-15; 51:17; Hosea 6:6). When Christ appeared he declared all foods ‘clean’ (Mark 7:19) and he ignored the Old Testament clean laws in other ways, touching lepers and dead bodies.

But the reason is made clear. When he died on the cross the veil in the temple was ripped through, showing that the need for the entire sacrificial system with all its clean laws had been done away with. Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice for sin, and now Jesus makes us “clean.” (Tim Keller http://www.redeemer.com/redeemer-report/article/old_testament_law_and_the_charge_of_inconsistency)​

Yes I agree as I have said many times, the animal sacrificial system is abolished as we are now covered by the blood of Christ for our sins, but all the other commands still stand. What Im referring to is this notion that all the laws of God and now abolished after the cross, so if they are abolished how can we even be judged on judgement day, if there is nothing to judge us by.

And Jesus NEVER declared all foods clean in Mark 7:19, the reason that is in parenthesis is that is was added to the bibles. I you go to any earlier bible like the 1611 KJV or Tyndale bibles before all the added stuff started appearing in the scriptures you will see. If Jesus told them at that point that all foods are now clean, he would have been going against his own fathers commands that he said he didnt come to abolish and would have been telling people to sin. At that point he would not have qualified to be the Messiah and they might have stoned him to death for blasphemy too.

 

[Bob S]

Yes I agree as I have said many times, the animal sacrificial system is abolished as we are now covered by the blood of Christ for our sins, but all the other commands still stand.

Are you really ready to make that argument? Have you read all of the Torah and has it all sunk in? If you are a farmer do you pay your tithes in animals or crops. Where do the farmers in your congregation take their crops and animals when paying their tithes. How about all of the rituals Saan, do you have long sideburns as do the Orthodox Jews Wasn't that part of the Torah?

What Im referring to is this notion that all the laws of God and now abolished after the cross, so if they are abolished how can we even be judged on judgement day, if there is nothing to judge us by.

If those laws are what we are to be judged by then will any of us be found in the Kingdom? Am I to be judged by whether or not I wear tassels, what cloth I use on my body, or keeping the tithing laws? Think about all you write. Would any intelligent person believe we are subject to laws that only pertained to Israel?.

The truth is Christians, that is real Christians will not be judged. Your statement is a misnomer. Are you trying twist tactics to try to persuade people to believe as you do? Read Jn 5:24. Here it is so that you don't even have to look it up. 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

It is not what we do it is what Jesus has done for us. Ours is to believe (and trust). As to our duty to God and our fellow man we find that also in John. 1Jn 3: 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Does it sound like God has abolished laws governing Christians? Please for the sake of all who read these posts don't make it so hard for them to understand. It is so simple, but those who would put us back under laws given only to Israel make it so hard. Claim the promises

And Jesus NEVER declared all foods clean in Mark 7:19, the reason that is in parenthesis is that is was added to the bibles. I you go to any earlier bible like the 1611 KJV or Tyndale bibles before all the added stuff started appearing in the scriptures you will see. If Jesus told them at that point that all foods are now clean, he would have been going against his own fathers commands that he said he didnt come to abolish and would have been telling people to sin. At that point he would not have qualified to be the Messiah and they might have stoned him to death for blasphemy too.

Salvation has nothing to do with what we eat or drink. Those laws of eating were part of a covenant that God completed and have nothing to do with our salvation. Holding them up as something Christians must do is very very slippery. God didn't command Noah nor any Gentile ever, to refrain from eating anything they wanted to eat.

Why is it you folks that think we are subject to the laws of the Israelites? Why can't you accept the fact that Jesus fulfilled the Torah law for the Israelites and gave them a new covenant on how to live a righteous life?

 

[SAAN]

Are you really ready to make that argument? Have you read all of the Torah and has it all sunk in? If you are a farmer do you pay your tithes in animals or crops. Where do the farmers in your congregation take their crops and animals when paying their tithes. How about all of the rituals Saan, do you have long sideburns as do the Orthodox Jews Wasn't that part of the Torah?


If those laws are what we are to be judged by then will any of us be found in the Kingdom? Am I to be judged by whether or not I wear tassels, what cloth I use on my body, or keeping the tithing laws? Think about all you write. Would any intelligent person believe we are subject to laws that only pertained to Israel?.

The truth is Christians, that is real Christians will not be judged. Your statement is a misnomer. Are you trying twist tactics to try to persuade people to believe as you do? Read Jn 5:24. Here it is so that you don't even have to look it up. 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

It is not what we do it is what Jesus has done for us. Ours is to believe (and trust). As to our duty to God and our fellow man we find that also in John. 1Jn 3: 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Does it sound like God has abolished laws governing Christians? Please for the sake of all who read these posts don't make it so hard for them to understand. It is so simple, but those who would put us back under laws given only to Israel make it so hard. Claim the promises


Salvation has nothing to do with what we eat or drink. Those laws of eating were part of a covenant that God completed and have nothing to do with our salvation. Holding them up as something Christians must do is very very slippery. God didn't command Noah nor any Gentile ever, to refrain from eating anything they wanted to eat.

Why is it you folks that think we are subject to the laws of the Israelites? Why can't you accept the fact that Jesus fulfilled the Torah law for the Israelites and gave them a new covenant on how to live a righteous life?

I see what your saying, but I have said many times in detail on here before, that not everything applies to everyone. Im not a farmer, priest, women or king, so many things dont apply to me and much of those are not even valid without a temple and being outside the land of Israel as well.

In regards to "

Are you really ready to make that argument? Have you read all of the Torah and has it all sunk in? If you are a farmer do you pay your tithes in animals or crops. Where do the farmers in your congregation take their crops and animals when paying their tithes. How about all of the rituals Saan, do you have long sideburns as do the Orthodox Jews Wasn't that part of the Torah?


If those laws are what we are to be judged by then will any of us be found in the Kingdom? Am I to be judged by whether or not I wear tassels, what cloth I use on my body, or keeping the tithing laws? Think about all you write. Would any intelligent person believe we are subject to laws that only pertained to Israel?.

In regards to "The truth is Christians, that is real Christians will not be judged." , then & Paul is a absolute liar when he is talking about the judgement seat of Christ then.


Romans 14:10
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.


There is more to your faith than just believing Jesus died on the cross for your sins. This is why Christianity is in utter shambled right now. Just tell people to believe and thats all, with no accountability on how to live after they take that step of faith. Jesus said if you love him you will keep the commandments, so your faith causes you to do good works. These works wont save you, but they go hand in hand with your faith in Christ and what you will be judged by 2 Corinthians 5:10.

No one is putting anyone back under the law. God made a New Covenant ONLY with Israel, so that is why we are grafted in when we are saved. God did not make a covenant with the gentiles, the good news for them is now gentiles can be saved as well and be part of the New Covenant made with Israel. I would like you to list all the laws governing Christians and then tell me where those laws came from after that.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Yes I agree as I have said many times, the animal sacrificial system is abolished as we are now covered by the blood of Christ for our sins, but all the other commands still stand. What Im referring to is this notion that all the laws of God and now abolished after the cross, so if they are abolished how can we even be judged on judgement day, if there is nothing to judge us by.

And Jesus NEVER declared all foods clean in Mark 7:19, the reason that is in parenthesis is that is was added to the bibles. I you go to any earlier bible like the 1611 KJV or Tyndale bibles before all the added stuff started appearing in the scriptures you will see. If Jesus told them at that point that all foods are now clean, he would have been going against his own fathers commands that he said he didnt come to abolish and would have been telling people to sin. At that point he would not have qualified to be the Messiah and they might have stoned him to death for blasphemy too.

I am not sure that you understand which covenant you are in.

 

[SAAN]

I am not sure that you understand which covenant you are in.

I AM A PART OF THIS COVENANT

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (NKJV)
A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Hebrews 8:7-13 (NKJV)
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says:“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


So the law that was written on stone is now written on my heart, just the the bible says it is for those who are his people. It was prophesies in Jer. and Hebrews confirms it.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I AM A PART OF THIS COVENANT

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (NKJV)
A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Hebrews 8:7-13 (NKJV)
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says:“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


So the law that was written on stone is now written on my heart, just the the bible says it is for those who are his people. It was prophesies in Jer. and Hebrews confirms it.

Are you Jewish?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

"If we have no laws to keep, how can we be judged on judgement day if there is no laws to judge us by?"

This is how:

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[c] you were doing it to me!’

 

[SAAN]

Are you Jewish?

Nope, under my faith is shows Christian.

 

[Bob S]

Because Jesus himself said directly that he didnt come to abolish the commands of God. So if he said that, there is no way we can turn around and think the exact opposite.

Why do you insist on telling us some of the law is not pertaining to Christians and then write the above? I believe you have been backed into a corner and now you are fighting back with a wet noodle. If the law was not abolished then not one jot or one tittle........It is all still enforce.

When he fulfilled the law, he gave a real life example of how we are to follow them

.
He fulfilled the law. Did He or didn't He. In the previous verse He didn't. Yes, Jesus is our example, but that does not mean we are under the laws that He was under. Yours is a misnomer. We are to keep His commands just like He kept His Father's commandments. That, in no way, means God's old covenant commands are the same as His new commands. If they are the same then our covenant is not "new".

Explain exactly how to live a righteous life under the new covenant, when Jesus repeated everything out of the Torah to them on how to live. Love God (Deut 6:5), Love one another (Lev 19:8) and so on.

Easy, They all were under the law during Jesus life. The new covenant did not start until it was ratified by His blood.

Malachi 4:4(NKJV)
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.

The OT ends with keep the commandments, so after 4000 yrs, God now changes his mind???

Nop, God does not change His mind. His mind was made up before the foundation of the Earth. He knew at that time that the covenants would change at the Cross. It is all part of the plan of salvation. It is all being worked out and soon Jesus will return.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The new covenant did not start until it was ratified by His blood.

Great point, which is often overlooked. During His life, Jesus was transitioning us from the old to new. The new was not in effect, not could it be in effect, until after His resurection.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

We are to keep His commands just like He kept His Father's commandments.

Just wondering where in scripture you read that the father and the Son are not one in purpose?... Jesus said that nothing He did was of himself but from the Father... that means the Commandments He gave as well.

 

[bibledoctrine]

Christ Jesus the Lord is the Righteous Judge and at His judgment seat will be based on 1 Cor 3:10-15 : "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest:for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire"

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,

The correct way to receive gold, silver, precious stones is to follow Paul : 1 Cor 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ". God & Christ has now sent His apostle Paul as the apostle to grace saints today to follow as Paul also follows Christ the Righteous Judge who shall receive "gold, silver, precious stones" - Christ is the foundation; Paul is the master-builder upon this foundation, that is why Christ commands us today to follow Paul as Paul so follows Christ in today grace. That is the key to His judgment seat, which are detailed inside the Pauline epistles for the body of Christ today.