If we have no laws to keep,how can we be judged on judgement day if there is no laws to judge us by?

[bugkiller]

So what is the point of the judgement seat of Christ of believers then, what would be be judged by his only unbelievers will be judged by the commandments of God?

Huh?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Indeed - it is the WORD of God that judges.

Christ said the "LAW AND the Prophets" are not abolished in Matt 5 and in Matt 22 "ALL the LAW and the Prophets" are anchored solidly on "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

Whoops!!!!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

His still existing law - the moral LAW of God that defines sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law is the knowledge of sin.

You're simply unbelievable.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

According to the Bible Abraham did have God's Commandments, statutes and Law.

Gen 26
4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My Commandments, My statutes, and My Laws.”

And it is not just 7th day Sabbath keeping Christians that can read that Bible text without rejecting it. notice the list of pro-Sunday scholarship -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

According to Deut 5 you were just quoted your idea of Gen 26:5 is in error. Moses said Abraham didn't have the law issued to Israel.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Because Jesus himself said directly that he didnt come to abolish the commands of God. So if he said that, there is no way we can turn around and think the exact opposite. When he fulfilled the law, he gave a real life example of how we are to follow them.

Explain exactly how to live a righteous life under the new covenant, when Jesus repeated everything out of the Torah to them on how to live. Love God (Deut 6:5), Love one another (Lev 19:8) and so on.

Malachi 4:4(NKJV)
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.

The OT ends with keep the commandments, so after 4000 yrs, God now changes his mind???

That's exactly correct. Jesus didn't abolish (annihilate) the law. Jesus fulfilled the law, which you don't understand and refuse to accept. See LK 24:44 which you also throw out.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

We will never know what specifically was required of Abraham since it wasnt recorded, but we can see him, Noah, and Adam all had commands to follow from God.

True, but why the back peddling? Your claim is Abraham had the covenant law (10 Cs) which came 430 years after him. Just don't see how.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

And Paul says "The Gospel was preached to Abraham"

And the same author of Gen 26 tells us in Gen 6-7 about the distinction between the clean and unclean animals - centuries before Abraham.

And Ex 20:11 states that the Gen 2:1-3 command was founded at creation week.

Just wild unprovable claims. There is no command found in Gen 2:1-3.

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

So the big question is if the law was just until Jesus, what would you follow after that as moral guide lines. If a new believer came and said how do I love God and one another, how would they even know how to do that unless they follow the commandments. If Jesus says if you love me keep the commandments, wouldnt that confuse a newbie to Christ to read that and then see Paul saying those commands didnt matter after Jesus died.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Gal 5

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

In the Old Testament we learn that no one can keep all the 613 laws of God perfectly. Even Jesus violated the law concerning working on the Sabbath to show that he would ultimately fulfill the law. Which was kept imperfectly and which is what garnered the animal sacrifices for atonement of those sins committed. Until Jesus died on the altar as the perfect unblemished lamb and took the sins of the world upon himself there.

Jesus came to save sinners. And those in Christ are healed and God remembers our sins no more.
Revelation 1 and 2 tell us about judgment. We'll be judged at the Bema seat according to our heart and the works , because faith without works is dead, that we did in the true light and spirit of God in Christ.

Judgment Seat

Then there is no redemption nor hope. Its simply amazing that you can accuse God of sin. But then maybe you don't believe Jesus is God.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Mat 22:37 And Jesus said to him, `Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding--
Mat 22:38 this is a first and great command;
Mat 22:39 and the second is like to it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;
Read the NT. There are many, many instructional verses. The authors were not slack in telling us what it means to love our neighbors and what are sinful behaviors.
Even the Jews could not agree on how all of the 613 commandments should be carried out, thus the Talmud.

Yes, I can see how that could be confusing.
It's not that the commandments don't matter. It's that the old covenant has been fulfilled.
Joh 14:15 `If ye love me, my commands keep,
He also said,
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Heb 7:11 If indeed, then, perfection were through the Levitical priesthood--for the people under it had received law--what further need, according to the order of Melchisedek, for another priest to arise, and not to be called according to the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 for the priesthood being changed, of necessity also, of the law a change doth come, .....
Heb 7:14 for it is evident that out of Judah hath arisen our Lord, in regard to which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet more abundantly most evident, if according to the similitude of Melchisedek there doth arise another priest,
Heb 7:16 who came not according to the law of a fleshly command, but according to the power of an endless life,

So you see that Jesus being ordained by God as the eternal high priest was not in accordance to the priesthood given in the Law of Moses, not by a fleshly command.

Jesus asks us to go above and beyond the Law of Moses.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Love the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart. If ones heart is not pure than they are not loving God with all their heart.

Excellent, except you missed the fact they believe Jesus is the One Who gave the 10 Cs. That's why I like John 15:10 so much.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

All these instructional verses are being pulled right from the Torah. Lev 19:18 & Deut 6:5 is Love God and Love another and the rest of the NT is just enforcing it. Heb 7 is confirming there is a change in the priesthood since Christ is now our high priest. There is no more animal sacrifices and now our sins are covered by the blood of Christ.

The Jews couldnt agree because they were rebellious and stubborn towards God. They had the commandments, but they add thousands of other commandments to try to protect the original commands and made it a complete burden in the end. Jesus was constantly getting on the jews about how they follow their man made traditions and put aside the commands of God.

There was not NT back then, so if we are going to quote the teachings of Christ and the disciples, we have to also acknowledge they taught from the Torah, the one thing many Christians seem to have a huge problem with.

So you confess here that a jot and a tittle of the law is changed while your famous verse says not a jot or tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled. You really don't seem to be paying attention even to your own words.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I do agree as not everything is meant for everyone or even applies anymore if you are not in the nation of Israel or without a temple. In regards to circumcision, they were saying it wasnt required to for salvation, which is correct, as salvation comes through faith. As for if God still demands circumcision, who know, as it is a command of God, but God was more concerned about circumcising your hearts than flesh. Ive heard people try to make that argument that it is because its a command of the Torah and not one jot or tittle would pass, which brings up why would God even require that of men and women didnt have to do anything like that back then.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal 5

You can't say we are sinning by not keeping the Sabbath and possess salvation by keeping the Sabbath.

And since you don't much like Paul -

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2

You just can't have if both ways and believe the Bible.

bugkiller

 

[SAAN]

That's exactly correct. Jesus didn't abolish (annihilate) the law. Jesus fulfilled the law, which you don't understand and refuse to accept. See LK 24:44 which you also throw out.

bugkiller

So if you agree that he didnt abolish the laws, why do go on on constant rants whenever people say we are still to follow the commands of God then? Jesus showed us how we are to live the laws of God and he did it perfectly, so thats how he fulfilled it. It has also been noted many times that not everything applies to everyone, since some commands are for women, men, kings, priest, farmers, or just if you are in Israel or requires a temple, but you still want to argue when people say we are to keep the commandments.

I have said may times repeatedly that Jesus fulfilled the law, so its not anything that I dont understand or refuse to accept.

 

[SAAN]

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal 5

You can't say we are sinning by not keeping the Sabbath and possess salvation by keeping the Sabbath.

And since you don't much like Paul -

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2

You just can't have if both ways and believe the Bible.

bugkiller

My goodness, will you read Galatians in proper context and stop cherry picking to make ridiculous arguments. The whole issue in Galatians was they the circumcision party was going around and saying you must be circumcised in order to be saved and no where in the Torah does it say that anywhere, so they were pushing a their own rabbinical teachings and elevating over the commands of God. God said we are to circumcise our hearts, so in the verses you quoted out of context, it is pretty simple, if you rely on physical circumcision as your salvation, Christ is of no effect to you, because you have rejected his free gift of salvation in favor of some man made rabbinical teachings.

I have no problem with Paul at all, I just know how to read his writings in proper context and dont put him against Jesus like you do.

Again another scripture you take out of context is James 2, but since you pretty much are a cherry picker and arrogantly take scriptures out of context all the time to try to make a point, im not even surprised anymore. James 2 is saying dont show favoritism. The penalty for breaking one command is the same as the next, as the penalty for sin is death. IT IS NOT SAYING, since you cant keep the commandments perfectly dont bother trying at all, as no one in the bible has kept the commands perfectly except Jesus. We are humans and we slip up, and that is where the blood of Christ covers us for our sins when we repent and ask for forgiveness.

James 2:1-10 (NKJV)
Beware of Personal Favoritism
2 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to berich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[SAAN]

So you confess here that a jot and a tittle of the law is changed while your famous verse says not a jot or tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled. You really don't seem to be paying attention even to your own words.

bugkiller

Once again, not every command applies to everyone, as some commands are for kings only , priest only, farmers only, men only, women only, require a temple, or to be in the nation of Israel, which has been gone over many times. Stop replying for the sake of an argument if you have nothing constructive to add or scriptures to back your argument.

 

[Sophrosyne]

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Gal 5

bugkiller

In other words those who are under Grace are spiritual Christians while those who are under the Law are carnal (not spiritual) Christians.

 

[bugkiller]

So if you agree that he didnt abolish the laws, why do go on on constant rants whenever people say we are still to follow the commands of God then? Jesus showed us how we are to live the laws of God and he did it perfectly, so thats how he fulfilled it. It has also been noted many times that not everything applies to everyone, since some commands are for women, men, kings, priest, farmers, or just if you are in Israel or requires a temple, but you still want to argue when people say we are to keep the commandments.

I have said may times repeatedly that Jesus fulfilled the law, so its not anything that I dont understand or refuse to accept.

You don't understand the words. Jesus successfully completed contract. You maintain we have to fulfill the contract contrary to the NT.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

My goodness, will you read Galatians in proper context and stop cherry picking to make ridiculous arguments. The whole issue in Galatians was they the circumcision party was going around and saying you must be circumcised in order to be saved and no where in the Torah does it say that anywhere, so they were pushing a their own rabbinical teachings and elevating over the commands of God. God said we are to circumcise our hearts, so in the verses you quoted out of context, it is pretty simple, if you rely on physical circumcision as your salvation, Christ is of no effect to you, because you have rejected his free gift of salvation in favor of some man made rabbinical teachings.

I have no problem with Paul at all, I just know how to read his writings in proper context and dont put him against Jesus like you do.

Again another scripture you take out of context is James 2, but since you pretty much are a cherry picker and arrogantly take scriptures out of context all the time to try to make a point, im not even surprised anymore. James 2 is saying dont show favoritism. The penalty for breaking one command is the same as the next, as the penalty for sin is death. IT IS NOT SAYING, since you cant keep the commandments perfectly dont bother trying at all, as no one in the bible has kept the commands perfectly except Jesus. We are humans and we slip up, and that is where the blood of Christ covers us for our sins when we repent and ask for forgiveness.

James 2:1-10 (NKJV)
Beware of Personal Favoritism
2 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to berich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Obviously you forget Acts 15.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

My goodness, will you read Galatians in proper context and stop cherry picking to make ridiculous arguments. The whole issue in Galatians was they the circumcision party was going around and saying you must be circumcised in order to be saved and no where in the Torah does it say that anywhere, so they were pushing a their own rabbinical teachings and elevating over the commands of God. God said we are to circumcise our hearts, so in the verses you quoted out of context, it is pretty simple, if you rely on physical circumcision as your salvation, Christ is of no effect to you, because you have rejected his free gift of salvation in favor of some man made rabbinical teachings.

I have no problem with Paul at all, I just know how to read his writings in proper context and dont put him against Jesus like you do.

Again another scripture you take out of context is James 2, but since you pretty much are a cherry picker and arrogantly take scriptures out of context all the time to try to make a point, im not even surprised anymore. James 2 is saying dont show favoritism. The penalty for breaking one command is the same as the next, as the penalty for sin is death. IT IS NOT SAYING, since you cant keep the commandments perfectly dont bother trying at all, as no one in the bible has kept the commands perfectly except Jesus. We are humans and we slip up, and that is where the blood of Christ covers us for our sins when we repent and ask for forgiveness.

James 2:1-10 (NKJV)
Beware of Personal Favoritism
2 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to berich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

You also missed Ex 12:48

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

My goodness, will you read Galatians in proper context and stop cherry picking to make ridiculous arguments. The whole issue in Galatians was they the circumcision party was going around and saying you must be circumcised in order to be saved and no where in the Torah does it say that anywhere, so they were pushing a their own rabbinical teachings and elevating over the commands of God. God said we are to circumcise our hearts, so in the verses you quoted out of context, it is pretty simple, if you rely on physical circumcision as your salvation, Christ is of no effect to you, because you have rejected his free gift of salvation in favor of some man made rabbinical teachings.

I have no problem with Paul at all, I just know how to read his writings in proper context and dont put him against Jesus like you do.

Again another scripture you take out of context is James 2, but since you pretty much are a cherry picker and arrogantly take scriptures out of context all the time to try to make a point, im not even surprised anymore. James 2 is saying dont show favoritism. The penalty for breaking one command is the same as the next, as the penalty for sin is death. IT IS NOT SAYING, since you cant keep the commandments perfectly dont bother trying at all, as no one in the bible has kept the commands perfectly except Jesus. We are humans and we slip up, and that is where the blood of Christ covers us for our sins when we repent and ask for forgiveness.

James 2:1-10 (NKJV)
Beware of Personal Favoritism
2 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to berich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Since you know how to read Paul, please explain -

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Rom 7

bugkiller