If there was no death (of animals) before the Fall, then why would animals need to eat?

Mr Laurier

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I assumed you knew that Jesus is God and that God has always been.
Then you assumed a point not backed by fact.
Just as you do not know that Frodo made the one ring of power. So I do not knoe that Jesus is God, or that God has always been.
Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Appaches 3:8 Yet of the Daughter we hear "Thy steed, oh Unicorn, is long, and mighty the book of your city"
He took on flesh 2000 years ago when he came as a baby, but Jesus is the creator.
Whatever
Colossians 1:16
16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

Hugies 3:27 19 Huh? Wow. What a load of nonsense.
The him in the verse is Jesus, before he took on flesh.

Thats nice.
 
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AV1611VET

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Just calling it an ignorant heresy is easier--and more accurate.
It makes you look scholarly, doesn't it?

You want us to call all of our doctrines "ignorant heresies," so you can look even smarter?
 
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Speedwell

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It makes you look scholarly, doesn't it?

You want us to call all of our doctrines "ignorant heresies," so you can look even smarter?
No, personally I don't believe in calling alternative doctrines "heresies" unless I'm on my high horse about being denounced as a "Bible-hating, Christ denying commie" or some such for not believing in them. Whatever floats your boat is my motto, unless you want to make political issue out of it.
 
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No, personally I don't believe in calling alternative doctrines "heresies" unless I'm on my high horse about being denounced as a "Bible-hating, Christ denying commie" or some such for not believing in them.
Did someone do that directly? or is that one of your Yup-Youre-A-YEC moments?
Then like it or not you are a YEC. Sadly you are a YEC that openly claims that God lied by planting false evidence. That seems contradictory to what the Bible says about him.
 
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Speedwell

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Did someone do that directly? or is that one of your Yup-Youre-A-YEC moments?
Frequently, when I lived in the Bible Belt. It happens fairly often in this forum, too, but the Mods are quick to stamp it out. As to YECs, I think it is pretty obvious that they regard themselves as the only "real" Christians.
 
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Frequently, when I lived in the Bible Belt.
What happened?

Did one of them look at you funny, and so got accused of being a right-wing, child-eating, Supralapsarian, WASP?
 
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Speedwell

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What happened?

Did one of them look at you funny, and so got accused of being a right-wing, child-eating, Supralapsarian, WASP?
What I objected to mostly was my kids being bullied in (public) school by their teachers about what we didn't believe. But I was in those days younger and more formidable character (and known to own guns) so I soon put a stop to that. I was machinist then and I got a job in a machine shop by agreeing with the boss that I was a Christian--when he found out that I was an Anglican he fired me for lying to him. So mostly I tried to mind my own business about it and so no rocks through my window or slashed tires, though that kind of thing happened, as well as some more awful things. Where we lived, for example, it was considered good sport to set dogs on Jehovah's Witness canvassers an some were severely injured, but the Sheriff wouldn't take a report because he belonged to the same church whose Pastor encouraged that kind of thing. At least they no longer strung up random black men for fun, though it was still open season on gays.
 
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What I objected to mostly was my kids being bullied in (public) school by their teachers about what we didn't believe.
So what do you think when you see the scholarly here doing just that to us?
 
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Speedwell

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So what do you think when you see the scholarly here doing just that to us?
You are an adult, you come here voluntarily and there are moderators who keep it from getting too abusive. There are no children being sent away in tears when their public school teachers tell them that they belong to Godless cults because they are non-creationist Christians.
 
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AV1611VET

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You are an adult, you come here voluntarily and there are moderators who keep it from getting too abusive. There are no children being sent away in tears when their public school teachers tell them that they belong to Godless cults because they are non-creationist Christians.
You didn't answer my question.
 
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Speedwell

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You didn't answer my question.
I think that if you don't feel that your doctrine is being given the respect which it deserves you can defend it, complain to the moderators about it or just leave. A child in the public schools hasn't those options. Even so, no one here is being "bullied." Merely giving our opinions in a public forum is not it.
 
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Speedwell

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If Creationists were not trying to institutionalize their doctrine in the schools and other areas of public policy none of us would be here. For example, Seventh-day Adventists don't eat meat. They think the Bible tells them not to and you know what? Nobody else cares. There are no forums in which this doctrine is hotly disputed. But if they started demanding that meat meals be removed from public school cafeterias and that SDA doctrine be taught exclusively in school nutrition classes you can bet there would be controversy and acrimonious discussion in many public forums. SDA doctrine would be subject to thorough investigation and criticism just like we handle creationism here, and rightly so.
 
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If Creationists were not trying to institutionalize their doctrine in the schools and other areas of public policy none of us would be here. For example, Seventh-day Adventists don't eat meat. They think the Bible tells them not to and you know what? Nobody else cares. There are no forums in which this doctrine is hotly disputed. But if they started demanding that meat meals be removed from public school cafeterias and that SDA doctrine be taught exclusively in school nutrition classes you can bet there would be controversy and acrimonious discussion in many public forums. SDA doctrine would be subject to thorough investigation and criticism just like we handle creationism here, and rightly so.
I suppose you're right.

After all, I think one of the reasons God gifts us scientists is to keep religion in check.

But when they go after a literal interpretation of the Bible, they're barking up the wrong tree.
 
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VirOptimus

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I suppose you're right.

After all, I think one of the reasons God gifts us scientists is to keep religion in check.

But when they go after a literal interpretation of the Bible, they're barking up the wrong tree.
Just like ”wine” really is grape juice right? Very literal.
 
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Speedwell

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I suppose you're right.

After all, I think one of the reasons God gifts us scientists is to keep religion in check.

But when they go after a literal interpretation of the Bible, they're barking up the wrong tree.
They're not "going after" a literal interpretation of the Bible, they just don't care about it unless they get their noses rubbed in it. It's nothing but the eccentric notion of some minority Protestant sects that nobody else really cares about or has much respect for and if you kept it to yourselves nobody would trouble to bother you about it. If creationist Evangelicals want to be taken seriously, perhaps they should return to preaching the Gospel of Christ rather than the doctrine of literal inerrancy.
 
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Speedwell

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Just like ”wine” really is grape juice right? Very literal.
There is no such thing as natural alcohol-free grape juice. Wine is nothing but fermented grape juice and the fermentation process begins as soon as the fruit is so much as bruised. If you want to make alcohol-free grape juice you have to remove the alcohol naturally present and pasteurize or refrigerate the result. Nobody in biblical times did that.
 
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