If there was no death (of animals) before the Fall, then why would animals need to eat?

[AV1611VET]

Just like ”wine” really is grape juice right?

Right.

Very literal.

Categorical, actually.

For example, a "stone" could be a pebble, a stone, a rock, or a boulder.

Wine could be either fermented or unfermented, but always starts out as grape juice.

 

[AV1611VET]

They're not "going after" a literal interpretation of the Bible, they just don't care about it unless they get their noses rubbed in it.

It's our job to "rub your noses in it," as you put it.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is no such thing as natural alcohol-free grape juice. Wine is nothing but fermented grape juice and the fermentation process begins as soon as the fruit is so much as bruised. If you want to make alcohol-free grape juice you have to remove the alcohol naturally present and pasteurize or refrigerate the result. Nobody in biblical times did that.

In that case, all fruits contain alcohol.

 

[VirOptimus]

Right.Categorical, actually.

For example, a "stone" could be a pebble, a stone, a rock, or a boulder.

Wine could be either fermented or unfermented, but always starts out as grape juice.

No, wine is fermented.

Grape juice is something else.

 

[VirOptimus]

In that case, all fruits contain alcohol.

No, thats not how it works.

 

[Speedwell]

It's our job to "rub your noses in it," as you put it.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So stop demanding that people believe in the literal inerrancy of Genesis and start evangelizing them--as Jesus commanded us.

 

[Speedwell]

No, thats not how it works.

It is to a certain extent. A friend of mine once cut up some peaches and put them in a bowl on the counter as an after-school snack for her kids. By the time the kids came home the peaches were fizzy and the kids really liked them.

 

[VirOptimus]

It is to a certain extent. A friend of mine once cut up some peaches and put them in a bowl on the counter as an after-school snack for her kids. By the time the kids came home the peaches were fizzy and the kids really liked them.

True!

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

You didn't answer my question.

I think he did, there is a large difference between adults arguing from a basis of evidence and people belittling children because they do not agree with them

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

In that case, all fruits contain alcohol.

Yes the processes that convert sugars to alcohol are pretty much everywhere, this is one of the problems with trying to take a literalistic interpretation of scripture versus a realistic one.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, wine is fermented.

Grape juice is something else.

Then show me "grape juice" in the Bible.

 

[Speedwell]

Then show me "grape juice" in the Bible.

There is no evidence that it was manufactured during biblical times.

 

[VirOptimus]

Then show me "grape juice" in the Bible.

Thats not how it works.

Its your position the bible is literal and perfect, not mine.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, thats not how it works.

Either that, or it does.

 

[VirOptimus]

Either that, or it does.

No, you are in error.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think he did, there is a large difference between adults arguing from a basis of evidence and people belittling children because they do not agree with them

I asked what goes through his mind, when he sees adults bullying us as to what we believe.

No children involved.

He felt bullied by adults as a child ... now he's out observing adults bullying adults and apparently doesn't want to tell me what goes through his mind.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

I asked what goes through his mind, when he sees adults bullying us as to what we believe.

No children involved.

He felt bullied by adults as a child ... now he's out observing adults bullying adults and apparently doesn't want to tell me what goes through his mind.

 

[VirOptimus]

I asked what goes through his mind, when he sees adults bullying us as to what we believe.

No children involved.

He felt bullied by adults as a child ... now he's out observing adults bullying adults and apparently doesn't want to tell me what goes through his mind.

You persecution complex is noted.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes the processes that convert sugars to alcohol are pretty much everywhere, this is one of the problems with trying to take a literalistic interpretation of scripture versus a realistic one.

Show me the term "grape juice" in the Bible.

Again, it's like using the term "stone" for pebble, stone, rock, or boulder.

Back then, all grape juice was wine; but not all wine was grape juice, it just started out as grape juice.

Until scientists got their fingers in it and confused themselves by splitting them up into two different kinds of drinks.

 

[VirOptimus]

Show me the term "grape juice" in the Bible.

Again, it's like using the term "stone" for pebble, stone, rock, or boulder.

Back then, all grape juice was wine; but not all wine was grape juice, it just started out as grape juice.

Nope, thats you adding to the text. Its wine, thats literal.