If theistic evolution, how can God save a raven?

[Smokie]

I thought that applied basically to plants and algae. Oh there is the autotrophs.

Since plant life is fully 100 percent the basis of the known food chain, minus thermal vent life, it is reasonable to assume that plants must have been available before plant consumers could exist

 

[Sheila Davis]

Since plant life is fully 100 percent the basis of the known food chain, minus thermal vent life, it is reasonable to assume that plants must have been available before plant consumers could exist

So you saying the living organisms that came from space ate plants. Okay so the first living organisms were herbivores. The plants were definitely here first both according to Evolution and scripture.
I still ask if they could survive in space why would they need food here?

 

[Smokie]

So you saying the living organisms that came from space ate plants. Okay so the first living organisms were herbivores. The plants were definitely here first both according to Evolution and scripture.
I still ask if they could survive in space why would they need food here?

Actually you can reverse the process from the past to the future if you extrapolate humanity jumping to a new planet such as Mars. In this process if a plant that produces sugar and Oxygen can be adapted to grow on Mars then sugar and Oxygen to support life can begin changing the planet to be more favorable to the new humans. So the past may well be repeating itself in the future, when we can get to a real Earthlike planet without life, well it all repeats

 

[Sheila Davis]

Actually you can reverse the process from the past to the future if you extrapolate humanity jumping to a new planet such as Mars. In this process if a plant that produces sugar and Oxygen can be adapted to grow on Mars then sugar and Oxygen to support life can begin changing the planet to be more favorable to the new humans. So the past may well be repeating itself in the future, when we can get to a real Earthlike planet without life, well it all repeats

Using what science says - survival of the fittest and adaptation to the environment. Arguing against the science of man is pointless. That knowledge was given to men. After all God call the earth to bring forth the plants first, then call the Earth to bring forth life which she did.
Thanks make good sound sense.

 

[Smokie]

Using what science says - survival of the fittest and adaptation to the environment. Arguing against the science of man is pointless. That knowledge was given to men. After all God call the earth to bring forth the plants first, then call the Earth to bring forth life which she did.
Thanks make good sound sense.

Not really if unless you accept that there was someone present to record Gods words. I do not pay much attention to the bible as it was written by the same men who are now professors today

 

[Sheila Davis]

Not really if unless you accept that there was someone present to record Gods words. I do not pay much attention to the bible as it was written by the same men who are now professors today

As is your right to think so.

 

[loveofourlord]

what were you saying you know

Job's or the writer's view of the love of God for all his creation and providing for them.
Insects and all creeping things -which the birds eat is how God provides for them .... Millions species of both insect and bird - birds will never run out of food as long as there are insects .... God has provided for them.
God's love provides for mankind too, but we too, have to get up go out and get it, even though we may cry for help from him - as well as all other animals.
Those first amoebas / living bacteria / organisms, that came from space down to earth and started the process of all living life, what did they eat to survive? What did they eat to carry them through the process of evolution, evolving them into the first marine creature. Seems to me food shouldn't even be necessary, starting from the beginning of the evolutionary stage, there was no food - if so what? Each other? Why would they even need food if they could live in space?

What do bacteria eat currently in many places? they don't eat themselves or others hint hint, they eat whats available, minerals, and other things that can provide sustenance. Not all single celled organisms feast off of living material.

places like black smokers the bacteria eat chemicals spewed out.

plus first life wasn't the first things with proteins, just the first things that evolved far enough to life, there be many organic compound cells that had failed, or not reached evolving into life.

 

[loveofourlord]

1) I understand what you're saying evolution says survival of the fittest - is actually that true? Look at the dinosaurs and there is evidence, that they once roamed the Earth. It would seem that they would be able to adapt and survive more so than a raven or a chicken or any of the species in existence today. According to the theory of evolution dinosaurs, certain ones, had to be in order for evolution to continue, became extinct 65 plus million years ago. Meteorite, struck the Earth and wipe them out. Even the smallest dinosaurs were unique strong and fit. Climate change, instead of adapting, they evolved into something else, which took millions of years. God wipe them off the face of Eden ( I feel the Earth is Eden and the garden was specially made for man) making room for man and his judgement.
2) I can see a unique similarity between evolution and creation - they actually coincide -both say 1st the heaven and the Earth then the plants, then the marine life, then the animal life on land, then man. Plus the fact that scripture says God told the Earth to bring forth live - giving way to a simple analysis of his creation tactic.
3) In evolution, though they say life came from space, it was the Earth that evolved those living organisms, to the point that it is now.
4) And if you think on what scripture actually says: it tells mankind to be strong and resist not to be weak and give in. That is *a form of* survival of the fittest. God set forth a chain of food supplies for the animals - which continued until this day. At the fall of Adam, the Earth herself and all its inhabitants came under the curse of time and death - death which time brings.
5) God is not concerned with the Flesh of man or the Flesh of animals - God is concerned with the spirit within man, it is the spirit within man that will be damned or saved. There are no rules or sentences for animals, but there is for man. There are no new bodies for animals, but there is for man, in the new Heaven and the new Earth.

No evolution does not say they came from space, that is one of the potential sources for organic compounds wich I believe have been found in space. But we have shown that so far much of life can be formed on earth, even if we don't fully yet have all of the steps figured out.

Funny how you say, "evolution says." when it's science and reality says that. Or just get what science says completely wrong.

Survival of the fittest doesn't apply across all of time, it's what is the fittest at any given time. When the climate changes, or events change the world, it's those that are fittest at that time that survive, and fittest really just means best adapted. You drop a lion pride in the arctic and either him and his descendants adapt of they die. Most likely die, just as if there was a catastrophe event like a volcano or such that caused africa to become as cold as the arctic.

 

[Sheila Davis]

No evolution does not say they came from space, that is one of the potential sources for organic compounds wich I believe have been found in space. But we have shown that so far much of life can be formed on earth, even if we don't fully yet have all of the steps figured out.

Funny how you say, "evolution says." when it's science and reality says that. Or just get what science says completely wrong.

Survival of the fittest doesn't apply across all of time, it's what is the fittest at any given time. When the climate changes, or events change the world, it's those that are fittest at that time that survive, and fittest really just means best adapted. You drop a lion pride in the arctic and either him and his descendants adapt of they die. Most likely die, just as if there was a catastrophe event like a volcano or such that caused africa to become as cold as the arctic.

Who are the authors of evolution? Who writes the processes in which they believe evolution occurs? A play on words anyone with a tad of sense knows that Evolution doesn't speak. And one is referring to the reports of evolution - when using the words Evolution says. Tit Tit ... All reports that I have read concerning the origin of life on earth states: living organisms came from space - either through rain or a meteorite. Processes termed panspermia and abiogenesis. And what's some term as the primordial soup mix took place and these organisms begin to form. The only thing that they hadn't figured out is where the RNA came from - which is the building block of all life -without it there would be none. In 2020 some decided the RNA too came from space Paleontologist Neil Shubin and others who agree with him says all species worth fish at the very beginning of life forms. Through the process of evolution disease fish left water and began to evolve into land animals. Then we're all fish. I'm only relating what I say study. By those who say they know or have ideas of what occurred. I believe in the Creator.

 

[loveofourlord]

Who are the authors of evolution? Who writes the processes in which they believe evolution occurs? A play on words anyone with a tad of sense knows that Evolution doesn't speak. And one is referring to the reports of evolution - when using the words Evolution says. Tit Tit ... All reports that I have read concerning the origin of life on earth states: living organisms came from space - either through rain or a meteorite. Processes termed panspermia and abiogenesis. And what's some term as the primordial soup mix took place and these organisms begin to form. The only thing that they hadn't figured out is where the RNA came from - which is the building block of all life -without it there would be none. In 2020 some decided the RNA too came from space Paleontologist Neil Shubin and others who agree with him says all species worth fish at the very beginning of life forms. Through the process of evolution disease fish left water and began to evolve into land animals. Then we're all fish. I'm only relating what I say study. By those who say they know or have ideas of what occurred. I believe in the Creator.

Then you've barely even looked up evolution, or abiogenesis, there is a ENTIRE field of science devoted to how life formed ON EARTH so maybe you need to read more then creationists sites mocking evolution. What a few believe or think doesn't make it everyone. There are many avenues, and we have already shown that some of the backbones of RNA can form on their own. Were not all the way there, but given it took hundreds of millions of years for life to first appear why would we be surprised it's taken this long to figure it out as people.

And who is authors of evolution? Not even sure what that would mean. There is no authors, it's all of science working together each trying to add to what we already know about evolution and the history of life.

 

[Sheila Davis]

Then you've barely even looked up evolution, or abiogenesis, there is a ENTIRE field of science devoted to how life formed ON EARTH so maybe you need to read more then creationists sites mocking evolution. What a few believe or think doesn't make it everyone. There are many avenues, and we have already shown that some of the backbones of RNA can form on their own. Were not all the way there, but given it took hundreds of millions of years for life to first appear why would we be surprised it's taken this long to figure it out as people.

And who is authors of evolution? Not even sure what that would mean. There is no authors, it's all of science working together each trying to add to what we already know about evolution and the history of life.

 

[Sheila Davis]

Wow _ definition of author :::: one who writes a book, article, or report .... You can say whatever you want to say about what you believe I have or haven't done or learned. The reports I've read stated they didn't know where RNA came from and decided within the last year RNA also came from space. And living organisms came from outer space is the most accepted way that life began here on Earth. And I add you said it didn't _ changed your mind? Just like the Big Bang Theory and the several other theories scientist who are the authors have done written reports on - yet the Big Bang is widely accepted as fact. I know what and how I have studied. Now you have a nice blessed life. Good - by !

 

[lismore]

. God helping animals wandering for lack of food out of love?

Regards,
Thomas

Hello Thomas,

Evolution is a bloody, cruel process. The bible makes it clear that death is the last enemy. An enemy, not something used to create us. I just don't think evolution and the gospel can co-exist. God Bless

 

[loveofourlord]

Hello Thomas,

Evolution is a bloody, cruel process. The bible makes it clear that death is the last enemy. An enemy, not something used to create us. I just don't think evolution and the gospel can co-exist. God Bless

Then why did god create death and suffering after the fall? Either it was part of gods plan all along, or he punished everything with pain and suffering over 2 people.

 

[lismore]

Then why did god create death and suffering after the fall? Either it was part of gods plan all along, or he punished everything with pain and suffering over 2 people.

Hello loveofourlord, thanks for your reply. Death coming as a result of the fall is different from death being present from the beginning, that would make cruelty normative. In the new heavens and new earth the damage from the fall will be put right, no more death. God Bless

 

[loveofourlord]

Hello loveofourlord, thanks for your reply. Death coming as a result of the fall is different from death being present from the beginning, that would make cruelty normative. In the new heavens and new earth the damage from the fall will be put right, no more death. God Bless

it's still god creating cruelty, wether from the beginning or punishment from sin.

 

[lismore]

it's still god creating cruelty, wether from the beginning or punishment from sin.

Hello loveofourlord. Cruelty coming into the world as a result of the fall and of sin is different from cruelty being normative. Death isn't the way it was meant to be, death is an enemy that will soon be destroyed. God Bless

 

[loveofourlord]

Hello loveofourlord. Cruelty coming into the world as a result of the fall and of sin is different from cruelty being normative. Death isn't the way it was meant to be, death is an enemy that will soon be destroyed. God Bless

It's still cruelty created by god, that leads to suffering and pain. Feels far more cruel to make everyone suffer for a few people's actions then it was gods way to get to us. Evolution is more akin go spanking someone to bring about good behavior, vs beating someone because their sister did something wrong.

 

[PaulCyp1]

There is no "evolutionist side" because there is no conflict, and therefore no "sides". Jesus Christ founded one Church, said it was to remain one, and promised that one Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Because of these divine guarantees of truth, the teaching of His Church never conflicts with natural truths revealed by science. Jesus prayed about us to His Father in Heaven, "Father, that they all may be one, even as you Father and I are one". He knew that truth can exist only in unity, because truth cannot contradict truth, and contradictory beliefs therefore necessarily mean false beliefs. When manmade denominations reject the will of God and break away from His Church, they reject the fullness of His truth in favor of the biblical misinterpretations of their various founders. The fact that the beliefs/teachings of each manmade denomination contradict the teachings of other denominations demonstrates that untruth is rampant in such manmade churches. Therefore it is no surprise that many of these false teachings also contradict natural truths clearly revealed by science.

 

[renniks]

I think your mistake is assuming the believers in TE do not believe God has a hand in both the development and survival of life. Of course He does!

Then there's no truly naturalist processes.