IF THE LAW OF MOSES WAS SET ASIDE , WHY ROM 13:9?

[SkyWriting]

You can't can you because your trying to add an interpretation to the scriptures you have provided that is not supported in the context you have left out.

I try to provide the passages without my own slant on them. You are encouraged to check the context.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I only provide the passages without my own slant.

Actually you provided your slant then provided scripture that did not support your slant. I simply provided the scripture contexts that do not support your slant that Gods' 10 commandments are abolished in post # 22; post # 23 and post # 37 linked. That is a false teaching unsupported by the scriptures.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

We know that Paul wrote the book of ROMANS ,and in Rom 13:9 he writes , For this , thou shall not commit Adultery .

#2 Thou shall not kill .

#3 thou shall not bear false witness ,

#4 Thou shall not Covet .

Notice what Paul let OUT ?

I believe the Law , what bis called the OLD COVENANT was set aside as Paul wrote in 2 Cor 3:13 .

And nowhere does Paul say we are in the NEW COVENANT !!

dan p

Paul continues to state the summary of those concepts and any other commandment concept, thus giving a more simple way of thinking about it.

 

[Ligurian]

Galatians 2:7-9, Romans 15:8
..........Audience matters...........
Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 15:24

Are you assuming that Paul speaks of the circumcision of the flesh in Galatians 2:7-9 and Romans 15:8? If so, that's all it is, an assumption: for he tells us what true circumcision entails in Romans 2:28-29 and what it means to be of "the Circumcision".

Those verses would matter to gentiles... because it's spoken by their apostle. But you can't think that gentile's letters apply to genetic Israelites or their proselytes, can you? So using them to try to control the beliefs of the people, for whom Paul's not their boss, won't work.
And the Jews and Gentiles theme won't work, either... since the kingdom is still divided, making Paul of Benjamin a part of Judah.
So... the Galileans are not Judaeans... and neither are any of the tribes referenced by 1 Peter 1, since 1 Peter 2:10 links them to Hosea 1:6-10... the house of Israel, not the house of Juda.

Philippians 3:2 ...VS... Genesis 17:10-12
Galatians 3:2-5 ...VS... John 14:15-17.

Clearly, there are two different gospels for two different sets of people.
I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom given by Jesus to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. And Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and John 12:48-50 says these are the Father's words.

 

[Ligurian]

Matthew 15:3-6 But He answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the Commandment of God by your tradition? For God Commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Tertullian says Barnabus wrote Hebrews. There are no Colombians in the Bible. And the word "your" in the last whole sentence quoted should be "you're"... but dude, that sentence is totally wrong, according to the Old Testament.

Gotta say, really glad I don't try to follow both gospels... I don't read other people's mail like it was written to me by-the-boss-of-me.

Esaias 43:1-8 And now thus saith the Lord God that made thee, O Jacob, and formed thee, O Israel: Fear not, for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art Mine. 2 And if thou pass through water I am with thee, and the rivers shall not overflow thee; and if thou go through fire thou shalt not be burned, the flame shall not burn thee. 3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, that saves thee: I have made Egypt and Ethiopia thy ransom and given Soene for thee. 4 Since thou becamest precious in My sight, thou hast become glorious and I have loved thee, and I will give men for thee and princes for thy life. 5 Fear not, for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east and will gather thee from the west. 6 I will say to the north, Bring, and to the south, Keep not back; bring my sons from the land afar off, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; 7 even all who are called by My name: for I have prepared him for My glory, and I have formed him and have made him; 8 and I have brought forth the blind people: for their eyes are alike blind, and they that have ears are deaf.LXX

Esaias 6:8-13 And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go to this people? And I said, behold, I am here, send me. And he said, Go, and say to this people, 9 Ye shall hear indeed, but ye shall not understand; and ye shall see indeed, but ye shall not perceive. 10 For the heart of this people has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. (Matthew 13:13-17)... 11 And I said, How long, O Lord? And he said, Until cities be deserted by reason of their not being inhabited, and the houses by reason of there being no men, and the land shall be left desolate. 12 And after this God shall remove the men far off, and they that are left upon the land shall be multiplied. 13 And yet there shall be a tenth upon it, and again it shall be for a spoil, as a turpentine tree, and as an acorn when it falls out of its husk.

Jezekiel 36:22-28 Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord; I do not this, O house of Israel, for your sakes, but because of My holy name which ye have profaned among the nations, among whom ye went. And I will sanctify My great name, which was profaned among the gentiles, which ye profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord, when I am sanctified among you before their eyes. And I will take you out from the gentiles, and will gather you out of all the lands, and will bring you into your own land: and I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be purged from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols, and I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and will put a new spirit in you: and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh and will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit in you, and will cause you to walk in Mine Ordinances, and to keep My Judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell upon the land which I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be to Me a people, and I will be to you a God.
(Osee 1:6-10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Matthew 4:12-20)

Jeremias 39:37-41 Behold, I will gather them out of every land where I have scattered them in My anger and My wrath and great fury, and I will bring them back into this place and will cause them to dwell safely; and they shall be to Me a people, and I will be to them a God. And I will give them another way and another heart, to fear Me continually, and that for good to them and their children after them. And I will make with them an Everlasting Covenant, which I will by no means turn away from them, and I will put My fear into their heart, that they may not depart from Me. And I will visit them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land in faithfulness, and with all My heart, and with all My soul. (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 14:6-7, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 14:6)(verses in LXX & KJV)

Let's chat more when you want to discuss the posts and scriptures that have been shared with you

To do that, I'd have to be reading Paul's letters as though they were addressed to me. They're not, so I don't.

your claims that Gods' 10 commandments are abolished

You keep forgetting what I've already said about that. Let me remind you, yet again. (sigh)
_______________________
Matthew 19:18-18 Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother, and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:37-38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind.

Commandment #
1. Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. (spiritual adultery = apostacy) (John 10:8)
2. John 15:10 If ye keep My commandments ye shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father's Commandments and abide in His love. (Revelation 2:20)
3. Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (folly, to no purpose, in vain) (Matthew 7:21)
4. Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath Day: (John 7:22)
________________________

Jeremias 39:37-41 Behold, I will gather them out of every land where I have scattered them in My anger and My wrath and great fury, and I will bring them back into this place and will cause them to dwell safely; and they shall be to Me a people, and I will be to them a God. And I will give them another way and another heart, to fear Me continually, and that for good to them and their children after them. And I will make with them an Everlasting Covenant, which I will by no means turn away from them, and I will put My fear into their heart, that they may not depart from Me. And I will visit them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land in faithfulness, and with all My heart, and with all My soul. (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 14:6-7, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 14:6)

Wanna talk about verses I posted, 'cuz you haven't done that yet? No? Didn't think so. Instead, you keep waving your-one-playing-card and acting like "your slant" trumps everything I've really said about the 10 Commandments. ...So... either you're trying to bear false witness, or you're attempting to damage the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Wanna talk about verses I posted, 'cuz you haven't done that yet? No? Didn't think so.
Instead, you keep holding up your one-playing-card and acting like that trumps everthing I've really said about the 10 Commandments. So... either you're trying to bear false witness, or you're attempting to damage the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom.

Why would I need to talk about the verses you provided? Which ones tell us the first four commandments of Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished? Or which scriptures have you provided tell us that the new covenant was made with Gentiles (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34)? I am not bearing false witness by saying your trying to abolish Gods 10 commandments when you are saying in the new covenant no one needs to obey the first four commandments that are our duty of love to God and show us how we are to love God when there is no such scripture teaching this anywhere in the bible. How many commandments are there in Gods' 10 commandments; Are there 6; 9; 10; 613? (see Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13 or Deuteronomy 10:4). How many commandment of God's 10 commandments do you need to break before standing before God guilty of breaking all of them *James 2:10-11? Once again you have not addressed anything in the posts you are quoting in post # 22; post # 23; post # 25 and post # 37 linked and you have not provided a single scripture that says anyone of God's 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant. Let's chat more when you want to discuss the posts and scriptures that have been shared with you that are in disagreement with you. Until then let's agree to disagree and I will leave what has been shared with you between you and God to prayerfully consider and hope only the best for you.

Take Care

 

[Ligurian]

Wanna talk about verses I posted, 'cuz you haven't done that yet? No? Didn't think so.
Instead, you keep waving your one-playing-card and acting like "your slant" trumps everything I've really said about the 10 Commandments. ...So... either you're trying to bear false witness, or you're attempting to damage the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom.

Why would I need to talk about the verses you provided? Which ones tell us the first four commandments of Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished? Or which scriptures have you provided tell us that the new covenant was made with Gentiles (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34)?

I am not bearing false witness by saying your trying to abolish Gods 10 commandments

You've tied your whole premise to that book from Barnabus, which you said was written by Paul ...in either case, YOUR apostle... NOT MINE.
But what your apostle says to y'all doesn't apply to me, so you can't use your gospel's doctrines to bad-mouth anyone who doesn't follow it.

Who spoke what to which people: Matthew 10:5-7 ... Jesus didn't go to the gentiles, and told His Disciples not to go to them, either. ... Matthew 28:18-20 says they were to teach what He had already taught them: Matthew and John: the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Lost Sheep of Israel. And since the tribes of Israel are scattered among the nations, the Galilean Disciples would seek them among the nations.(John 10:4-5) And so will the people who believe on Jesus through their word (John 17:20).

_______________
Here's the thing... I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom, and I don't hear anything else. There is only one shepherd speaking to me: Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:48-50.

So, what Paul says is yours, not mine. Therefore, what you pretend I'm saying is actually the difference between the two gospels... and since you can't give it another slant, you bear false witness about what I'm saying... while pretending you don't do that.

When truthfully, you can't even understand me, since you're trying to follow both gospels... whereas I have only the First Gospel in my mind.

I've seen it from both gospels' points-of-view, argued it each way, and I feel pity for you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You've tied your whole premise to that book from Barnabus, which you said was written by Paul ...in either case, YOUR apostle... NOT MINE.
But what your apostle says to y'all doesn't apply to me, so you can't use your gospel's doctrines to bad-mouth anyone who doesn't follow it.

Who spoke what to which people: Matthew 10:5-7 ... Jesus didn't go to the gentiles, and told His Disciples not to go to them, either. ... Matthew 28:18-20 says they were to teach what He had already taught them ...which includes Matthew 10:5-7... the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Lost Sheep of Israel. And since the tribes of Israel are scattered among the nations, the Galilean Disciples would seek them among the nations.(John 10:4-5) And so will the people who believe on Jesus through their word (John 17:20).

_______________
Here's the thing... I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom, and I don't hear anything else. There is only one shepherd speaking to me: Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:48-50.

So, what Paul says is yours, not mine. Therefore, what you pretend I'm saying is actually the difference between the two gospels... and since you can't give it another slant, you bear false witness about what I'm saying... while pretending you don't do that.

When truthfully, you can't even understand me, since you're trying to follow both gospels... whereas I have only the First Gospel in my mind.

I've seen it from both gospels' points-of-view, argued it each way, and I feel pity for you.

According to the scriptures Jesus says by their fruits you shall know them *Matthew 7:16-20. That is who is from God and who is not from God. John also agrees with Jesus and tells us how we know that we genuinely know God or not in 1 John 2:3-4. I disagree with what you have posted and it is not tied into any premise accept to address what you posted earlier by adding the scripture contexts back into what you posted earlier showing that your claims that no one has to obey Gods' first four commandments from God's 10 commandments are not biblical but all these posts and scriptures shared with you that are in disagreement with your teachings you refuse to discuss. Now let me ask you again, what scripture have you provided that tells us the first four commandments of Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant? Or which scriptures have you provided tell us that the new covenant was made with Gentiles (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34)? I am telling you the truth because I am providing Gods Word. They are Gods' Words not mine and the very definition of what truth is *John 17:17. According to the scriptures there is only one gospel and that gospel is the Word of God because all the Word of God is good news that testifies of Jesus as Gods' savior for the sins of the world. So do not feel pity for me. Feel pity for anyone who does not believe and follow what Gods' Word says. As we are told in the scriptures to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not. Therefore we should not be afraid of coming to the light of Gods' Word because it is a lamp unto our path and a light unto our way, but this is the condemnation that men love darkness rather than light because their deed were evil, for every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved but he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. If we believe and follow the truth of Gods' Word we should not be afraid of coming to the light of Gods Word to see if we are genuinely in the faith or not. Even if we come to the light of Gods Word and find that we are in error and need to be corrected then this can only be a blessing to us if we genuinely want to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Once again you have not addressed anything in the posts you are quoting in post # 22; post # 23; post # 25 and post # 37 linked and you have not provided a single scripture that says anyone of God's 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant. Let's chat more when you want to discuss the posts and scriptures that have been shared with you that are in disagreement with you. Until then let's agree to disagree and I will leave what has been shared with you between you and God to prayerfully consider and hope only the best for you.

Take Care

 

[Ligurian]

You've tied your whole premise to that book from Barnabus, which you said was written by Paul ...in either case, YOUR apostle... NOT MINE.
But what your apostle says to y'all doesn't apply to me, so you can't use your gospel's doctrines to bad-mouth anyone who doesn't follow it.

Who spoke what to which people: Matthew 10:5-7 ... Jesus didn't go to the gentiles, and told His Disciples not to go to them, either. ... Matthew 28:18-20 says they were to teach what He had already taught them: Matthew and John: the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Lost Sheep of Israel. And since the tribes of Israel are scattered among the nations, the Galilean Disciples would seek them among the nations.(John 10:4-5) And so will the people who believe on Jesus through their word (John 17:20).

_______________
Here's the thing... I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom, and I don't hear anything else. There is only one shepherd speaking to me: Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:48-50.

So, what Paul says is yours, not mine. Therefore, what you pretend I'm saying is actually the difference between the two gospels... and since you can't give it another slant, you bear false witness about what I'm saying... while pretending you don't do that.

When truthfully, you can't even understand me, since you're trying to follow both gospels... whereas I have only the First Gospel in my mind.

I've seen it from both gospels' points-of-view, argued it each way, and I feel pity for you.

According to the scriptures Jesus says by their fruits you shall know them *Matthew 7:16-20. That is who is from God and who is not from God.

Since the Sermon from the Mount runs from Matthew 5:1-2 through Matthew 7:28-29...
all of that shows who has good fruit: Not the wolves in sheep's clothing... but the people who obey the Ordinances of the Davidic Kingdom.

I disagree with what you have posted and it is not tied into any premise accept to address what you posted earlier by adding the scripture contexts back into what you posted showing that your claims that no one has to obey Gods' first four commandments from God's 10 commandments are not biblical that you refuse to discuss.

Which post # was that? since the rest of that statement depends upon it.
I'm thinking you're mixing the two gospels ...again... since Jesus says the 10 are valid.

What you say about Paul ...? (shrug)
But you're trying to use Paul to judge the doctrine of the Galilean Disciples.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Are you thinking it was the egg?

I am telling you the truth because I am providing Gods Word *John 17:17.

John 17 is Jesus praying to the Father ...about the Galilean Disciples... and those who believe on Him through their word...John 10:16.

According to the scriptures there is only one gospel and that is the Word of God because all the Word of God is good news that testifies of Jesus as Gods' savior for the sins of the world.

What you're saying actually confirms what I said about there being two gospels... since Jesus preaches the Gospel of the Kingdom, given to Him by the Father (John 12:44-50), because Jesus didn't come to preach about Himself (John 7:17), but to bear witness to the Father who sent Him (John 18:37).

So do not feel pity for me.

I feel pity for you.

 

[SkyWriting]

What you're saying actually confirms what I said about there being two gospels... since Jesus preaches the Gospel of the Kingdom, given to Him by the Father (John 12:44-50), because Jesus didn't come to preach about Himself (John 7:17), but to bear witness to the Father who sent Him (John 18:37).

A lot different from Paul's focus. Paul chat's about himself a lot and Jesus hardly ever referred to Himself.

 

[SkyWriting]

How would I do that you have not provided any context to the scriptures you posted earlier.

Look up the context yourself. I encourage it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Look up the context yourself. I encourage it.

I did and it does not agree with your teachings which is why I brought it to your attention.

 

[daq]

Those verses would matter to gentiles... because it's spoken by their apostle. But you can't think that gentile's letters apply to genetic Israelites or their proselytes, can you? So using them to try to control the beliefs of the people, for whom Paul's not their boss, won't work.
And the Jews and Gentiles theme won't work, either... since the kingdom is still divided, making Paul of Benjamin a part of Judah.
So... the Galileans are not Judaeans... and neither are any of the tribes referenced by 1 Peter 1, since 1 Peter 2:10 links them to Hosea 1:6-10... the house of Israel, not the house of Juda.

Philippians 3:2 ...VS... Genesis 17:10-12
Galatians 3:2-5 ...VS... John 14:15-17.

Clearly, there are two different gospels for two different sets of people.
I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom given by Jesus to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. And Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and John 12:48-50 says these are the Father's words.

Apportion yourself into twelve parts and rule over twelve thrones: then go through all of your land preaching the Gospel to every creature throughout your dominion. Surely you will not have gone through the cities of Yisrael until the Son of Man comes.

 

[SkyWriting]

Love is also not separate from Gods' law it is expressed through obedience to it which is why Jesus say "on these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets" - Matthew 22:36-40.

Love has replaced all the written laws, because it is the better promise.
The written laws brought death.

James 2:8-12 [8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:


2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 The law that brought death was written in words on stone. It came with God’s glory, which made Moses’ face so bright that the Israelites could not continue to look at it. But that glory later disappeared. 8 So surely the new way that brings the Spirit has even more glory. 9 If the law that judged people guilty of sin had glory, surely the new way that makes people right with God has much greater glory.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Love has replaced all the written laws, because it is the better promise. The written laws brought death.

According to the scriptures love to God and man is expressed in obedience to God's 10 commandments not by disobedience to Gods' law. Scriptures already provided in post # 22; post # 23 and post # 37 linked. For example if you love your fellow man will you lie from them or steal from them *see Romans 13:8-10?

 

[Ligurian]

What you're saying actually confirms what I said about there being two gospels... since Jesus preaches the Gospel of the Kingdom, given to Him by the Father (John 12:44-50), because Jesus didn't come to preach about Himself (John 7:17), but to bear witness to the Father who sent Him (John 18:37).

A lot different from Paul's focus. Paul chat's about himself a lot.

Doesn't this verse mean the 10 Commandments?

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:KJV

Exodus 34:29 And when Moses went down from the mountain, there were the two tables in the hands of Moses,—as then he went down from the mountain, Moses knew not that the appearance of the skin of his face was glorified, when God spoke to him.LXX

 

[Ligurian]

Apportion yourself into twelve parts and rule over twelve thrones: then go through all of your land preaching the Gospel to every creature throughout your dominion. Surely you will not have gone through the cities of Yisrael until the Son of Man comes.

Is that a quote from some obscure place?
Because it doesn't show up... not even in the dogpile search engine.

Is it like The Telephone Game? where the first person says something to the second person, and the second says it to the third... by the time it makes it around the whole circle, how closely does it match what the first person said?

 

[SkyWriting]

Doesn't this verse mean the 10 Commandments?

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:KJV

Yes, the Glory in his face faded. Was to be faded away.

 

[SkyWriting]

According to the scriptures love to God and man is expressed in obedience to God's 10 commandments not by disobedience to Gods' law.

There is only one law left. That's the one being referred to.
The Ten commandments bring death to all christians.

Even people here argue if they or their neighbor or other sects are dead to god because they don't obey the sabbath. Or do.

Or they argue that other people love money too much.
Or they dress to fancy and idolize themselves or others.
Or people who swear are going to hell.
Or those who don't honor their mother and father.
Or people steal, lie, or covet, so are dead to God.

Now you made a mess to clean up.

 

[SkyWriting]

For example if you love your fellow man will you lie from them or steal from them *see Romans 13:8-10?

You might. There is no connection between love and specific actions.
Love means you do what you think is in the other person best interest.
There are no specific rules of yours I need to follow to do that. None at all.
That's the benefit of the new covenant. Your intentions are all that matter.
The rules have been dissolved due to being inadequate.