If suicidals only knew

[sdowney717]

What on earth are you talking about - demonic possessions. Paranoid schizophrenia, post-traumatic syndromes, post-natal depression, geriatric depression syndromes....you need to be informed before you start saying these people are demonic possessed. You ignorant comments and lack of compassion blows my mind.

And you reject spirituality, from which extend all things of the mind.

John 10:10
The thief (devils) does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

Having the abundant life also means to be of sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Paul teaches God gives the gift of a sound mind.
People have turned away from true spirituality embracing a counterfeit religion designed by Satan to destroy them.

 

[Zoii]

And you reject spirituality, from which extend all things of the mind.

No im rejecting ignorance. Im quite Ok with spirituality. Don't go throwing demonic possessions onto someone with a mental health disorder. They have enough problems without that type of stigma thrown at them.

 

[sdowney717]

People rejecting God's scriptures

No im rejecting ignorance. Im quite Ok with spirituality. Don't go throwing demonic possessions onto someone with a mental health disorder. They have enough problems without that type of stigma thrown at them.

This modern world simply has rejected God's words and the only thing left is then the lies of Satan.
There is no neutral state of spirituality, Christ says it like this.

Luke 11:22-26New King James Version (NKJV)
22 But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils.

23 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

An Unclean Spirit Returns
24 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ 25 And when he comes, he finds it swept and put in order. 26 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.”

 

[Desk trauma]

I've never heard of "hellfire therapy", so I have no idea.

Just my working title for preaching to those who are contemplating or survived suicide about how sinful they are and how horrible their afterlife will.

 

[Desk trauma]

Stepping back to the OP, if people were able to see the total true impact of any action they would be a great deal more thoughtful and deliberate about their actions.

Speaking personally as someone whose family has had to deal with the aftermath of a member who chose to end his life, I like to think he would have made a different choice had he been able to see the pain he left in his wake.

 

[Celestial Warrior]

We assume that people go to hell when they commit suicide, however the WORD OF GOD says nothing on this topic at all. A friend of ours just committed suicide two days ago and I wish I knew the truth on the subject so I could comfort the family of our friend on this subject .

Do you know of any verses that actually prove or rather "support" the doctrine of going to hell if you commit suicide, because I don't.

Only knew the fallout. the fallout of their suicide. The consequences short and long-term.
I think if you could show them a video of the future consequence, they'd change their mind. They'd see it from other people's point of view.

 

[Strong in Him]

Interesting you suggest not rebuking them is appropriate.
Should their sinful thinking not be rebuked that they should repent of suicidal thoughts?

No.
Depression, feelings of low self worth and thoughts of ending t all, are not a sin.

 

[Strong in Him]

These people with scrambled minds are in no sound state of mind are they. The are experiencing demonic oppressions.
Drugs and counseling only mask the underlying psychosis.

Very often they help the person to cope.

Mark 5:15
Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.

Jesus knew all things; he knew if a person truly was possessed and needed deliverance, or ill and needed healing. Often we don't, and to say that someone who is depressed, bereaved or clinically ill is possessed, may be incorrect and actually do harm.

 

[sdowney717]

No.
Depression, feelings of low self worth and thoughts of ending t all, are not a sin.

Generally speaking, anything not of faith is sin == sinfulness.
Is thinking on bad things sinfulness? Since it does not come from faith, it must come from evil (Satan, demons, other evil people, your own corrupted imaginations) and that is cosying up to evil things..such things lead to actions which are self destructive.
Romans 14
22 Do you have faith?[g] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

 

[sdowney717]

Reading this, don't you think God says even the imaginations of men's heart is evil == meaning sinful.
Genesis 6:5
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 8:21
And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Anyhow, good discussion to think on these things if even one person is turned back from desiring to kill or actually killing themselves.

 

[Strong in Him]

Generally speaking, anything not of faith is sin == sinfulness.

If someone doesn't know God, they will not be aware that they have sinned against him and will not have faith in him.
Even if a person does know God, depression gets in the way and may make them feel worthless and unworthy of his love. And it is possible for a Christian to have depression; apart from people I have known, the evangelist, David Watson, suffered quite badly from it.

Is thinking on bad things sinfulness?

Not if it is a result of something you can't help and is something that you don't normally do - i.e out of character.

Since it does not come from faith, it must come from evil (Satan, demons, other evil people, your own corrupted imaginations) and that is cosying up to evil things..such things lead to actions which are self destructive.

Depression is an illness; no doubt about it. Illness comes from the devil - he is the thief who came to steal and destroy. He wants to destroy our bodies, minds and spirits and relationship with God.
Someone who was healthy in body and mind who thought negative, destructive and hateful thoughts against God and other people, and who dwelt on them, would be sinning. Someone who is depressed - i.e mentally ill - and not able to control their thoughts, think rationally and so on, would not, imo.

23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

You are taking that verse out of context and seem to be applying it equally to non Christians.

 

[sdowney717]

If someone doesn't know God, they will not be aware that they have sinned against him and will not have faith in him.
Even if a person does know God, depression gets in the way and may make them feel worthless and unworthy of his love. And it is possible for a Christian to have depression; apart from people I have known, the evangelist, David Watson, suffered quite badly from it.



Not if it is a result of something you can't help and is something that you don't normally do - i.e out of character.



Depression is an illness; no doubt about it. Illness comes from the devil - he is the thief who came to steal and destroy. He wants to destroy our bodies, minds and spirits and relationship with God.
Someone who was healthy in body and mind who thought negative, destructive and hateful thoughts against God and other people, and who dwelt on them, would be sinning. Someone who is depressed - i.e mentally ill - and not able to control their thoughts, think rationally and so on, would not, imo.



You are taking that verse out of context and seem to be applying it equally to non Christians.

Unbelievers also sin whether aware of it or not.
They having no faith is sin, so yes it applies to unbelievers whatever is not from faith is sin.
It is a sin to not believe in Christ, if you desire proof of that read in Acts 17 this.

30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Regardless of whether they hear or not the gospel, God commands all persons everywhere to repent and believe in His Son. there is no longer any ignorance to be used as an excuse, no longer will God overlook the times of men's ignorance, all will give account to God and God tells us the entire world sins.

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

No more excuses, all the world is guilty of sin, especially regarding those who have no faith, for whatever is not from faith is sin, this applies to all the world of men.

 

[SteveB28]

I think we need to start by finding out the cause. A teenage girl who has just broken up with her boyfriend might seem trivial to us older ones, but then I know some older folk who suffer constant pain and long for it to end.

Rather than rebuke them I would look at the cause and set about finding strategies to help overcome the problem.

The OP has a good point in that assisting them to see how much others would be hurt can be helpful. A suicide in my family I think could have been prevented by an understanding of how important he was to all of us.

Yours is some rare common sense and empathy amongst this other nonsense. Well said.

 

[Tull]

The society we live in is one that constantly promotes discontent and dissatisfaction with life,we are told that whatever we are doing is not enough,what ever we have is not enough,we are not successful enough popular enough, smart enough,pretty enough and we see a constant parade of examples of what we are supposed to aspire to if we just buy this or that or get involved with this or that.....is it any wonder that some fall into despair and see their lives as not being worth living......the love of the world anyone ?

Then we go to church only to hear that God has some big spectacular superstar plan for our life and if we are not living it then we are,you guessed it,not enough,has anyone considered that maybe Gods plan for your life is that you be saved and spend eternity with him in his Kingdom.

I heard a sermon once titled something to the effect of "Heaven,is that all there is" this "pastor" seemed to be of the opinion that salvation was a breeze on that very narrow path Jesus described that few find,and you should be on to bigger things in Gods spectacular super star plan for your life...I turned it off because I couldn't take anymore.

Then there is the fact that some estimates have as much as half the polulation on so called anti depressant medication....maybe just maybe many of these people are tired of hearing about what they have not achieved and are supposed to be that they are not so they just medicate the pain of it all.....just some thoughts.

 

[Strong in Him]

Unbelievers also sin whether aware of it or not.
They having no faith is sin, so yes it applies to unbelievers whatever is not from faith is sin.

I will try to answer this more fully tomorrow. But I just want to say,
a) non believers are sinners; they have sinned against God, just as we have, but don't know it and may not realise that they can't get to heaven without Jesus,
b) this is a separate subject. Depression is no more a sin than measles is.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Then we go to church only to hear that God has some big spectacular superstar plan for our life and if we are not living it then we are,you guessed it,not enough

I think you make an excellent point here. For those of us struggling just to keep up in the real world, the Christian message can just reinforce low-self esteem. By Christian message I mean the evangelisers who emphasise that we aren't pulling our weight.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

The last few years I've noticed a lot of murder/suicides in the news in Australia. Murder the partner or murder the partner and kids, then kill oneself. This is just plain horrific. One family, there were two kids with severe autism but the wife wanted to take her kids back to Columbia so her extended family could help look after them. The husband, in weeks of planning, looks like he is installing an air con in the roof. Actually he is installing pipes for carbon monoxide poisoning. One Monday morning they are all found dead in the house. Just sickening.

 

[SteveB28]

The last few years I've noticed a lot of murder/suicides in the news in Australia. Murder the partner or murder the partner and kids, then kill oneself. This is just plain horrific. One family, there were two kids with severe autism but the wife wanted to take her kids back to Columbia so her extended family could help look after them. The husband, in weeks of planning, looks like he is installing an air con in the roof. Actually he is installing pipes for carbon monoxide poisoning. One Monday morning they are all found dead in the house. Just sickening.

But you have to guard against being swayed by what you've "noticed", as opposed to what is actually the case.

Homicide rates in Australia (and in much of the Western world) have been steadily dropping for decades.

Yes, they are more frequently and extensively reported than in the past, but we are actually treating ourselves a lot better than earlier generations.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Homicide rates in Australia (and in much of the Western world) have been steadily dropping for decades.

Is that a fact? I find that hard to believe, especially in America. Not saying you are wrong. Just disbelief.

 

[SteveB28]

Is that a fact? I find that hard to believe, especially in America. Not saying you are wrong. Just disbelief.

You wouldn't be the first.

Yes, including America. I invite you to perform an internet search using something like 'homicide rate in Australia/US'. You'll find a steady decline.