If suicidals only knew

[jimmyjimmy]

Do you wanna explain your answer?

Your response proved the point of my post.

 

[Zoii]

Your response proved the point of my post.

explain how me not liking it proved your point

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Jimmy Jimmy's post is thought provoking at least. Even though I am Christian, I don't really like the Christian context part of his post.. Not sure I want suicidal people to feel guilty for feeling suicidal even though my OP might imply that too. Having said that, the first part of Jimmy Jimmy's post is pretty close to the truth in my opinion. As much as it might hurt to read.

 

[sdowney717]

The irony of your response to my post is almost too much to bear.

Suicide is definitely sinfulness.
When shallow powerless gods in your life are shattered, then what do you have left to live for.
You will either get new gods, or you will die with them.
Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Romans 8:5
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 10:5
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 14:7
For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 14:8
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

It's the ultimate temper tantrum.

It certainly can be but I hesitate to generalise. Might it be just a "rational" decision to escape the pain, real or imagined.

 

[Zoii]

well I read jimmy Jimmys post too....for a sensitive topic like this I think facts from research instead of Jimmy's gut feelings might be less provocative. Even if you posted systematic reviews (thats like a statistical review of hundreds of research papers) itd be hard to find one that covered all the issues. To say suicide is a major pity party of girl brat who cant get their way - wow - time to read the research.

Theres lots focusing on the varying reasons but try this as a start:

Life events and suicidal ideation and behavior: A systematic review
Liu, Richard T. ; Miller, Ivan
Clinical Psychology Review, April 2014, Vol.34(3), pp.181-192

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Much as I am loathe to admit, I have felt suicidal at times too. But never seriously considered a plan. Maybe a lot of us have on here, but don't want to admit it.
It hurts to read Jimmy Jimmy's post that "suicide is the ultimate temper tantrum" or that its just "self-pity". But there is a part of me that acknowledges some truth in that. Of course it is selfish. From my experience, there is a feeling of desolation. No one truly understands. You want real compassion and you also want someone to say "its OK, you don't have to face that pain anymore. Or "I can take that pain away for you".

 

[Zoii]

Suicide is definitely sinfulness.
When shallow powerless gods in your life are shattered, then what do you have left to live for.
You will either get new gods, or you will die with them.
Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Romans 8:5
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 10:5
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 14:7
For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 14:8
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.

So...this is what you tell people with depression or post trauma or psychosis?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Suicide is definitely sinfulness.
When shallow powerless gods in your life are shattered, then what do you have left to live for.
You will either get new gods, or you will die with them.
Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Romans 8:5
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 10:5
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 14:7
For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 14:8
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.

I don't find this post helpful either.

 

[Zoii]

Much as I am loathe to admit, I have felt suicidal at times too. But never seriously considered a plan. Maybe a lot of us have on here, but don't want to admit it.
It hurts to read Jimmy Jimmy's post that "suicide is the ultimate temper tantrum" or that its just "self-pity". But there is a part of me that acknowledges some truth in that. Of course it is selfish. From my experience, there is a feeling of desolation. No one truly understands. You want real compassion and you also want someone to say "its OK, you don't have to face that pain anymore. Or "I can take that pain away for you".

Then youve probably not had a serious psychosis, or suffered a severe post traumatic syndrome, or terminal illness, or cognitive dysfunction.... But is this the christian response to these people...your all sinners n whiners?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Some people don't understand that there are sensitive personalities in the world that might be prone to suicide. They might have idealistic notions of how life should be and how they should be.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

But is this the christian response to these people...your all sinners n whiners?

No, you are right of course. My apologies to you especially. Jimmy's criticism might apply to me though.

 

[Zoii]

Then maybe they should read facts ....research from people who know what they are talking about before sprouting uninformed ridiculous comments

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I might need to ask for this thread to be closed Zoii. Sorry for the upset.

 

[Desk trauma]

Of course there is a spectrum, and there are many reasons for suicide, but as one who has been suicidal, known people who were, and known those who have taken their lives, generally speaking, suicide is a selfish act, so I disagree with the premise that if a person knew what suffering their suicide would cause they wouldn't go ahead with it. They do know, but they are too self absorbed to care.

Not all suicide is caused by self-pity, but I think much is. I don't downplay the pain caused by self-pity. The pain produced by self-pity is very real, but self-pity has a basis in the idea that one knows better than God how his life should go. That's it's fundamental problem. Suicide is an expression of rage. It's the ultimate temper tantrum. It's one's way of having the last word, or of, in their minds, flipping God "the bird".

It's counterintuitive, and many can't wrap their heads around this, but people who are suicidal shouldn't be treated as victims and pitied, their sin should be confronted, and they should be encouraged to repent of their idolatry. This idolatry is not always easy to spot, but an example that's easy to see is a young lady who didn't get invited to the prom, at all, or by the wrong guy. Now she holds a bottle of sleeping pills in her hand. . .

Why does she want to kill herself? Because rather than finding her identity in Christ, she seeks to find it in the affection of a young man. Her "god" is the guy that sits in front of her in biology class. She worships him. She places her faith in him to "save" her. Now, we might be quick to excuse her actions, and downplay her idolatry, but if we don't let our emotions rule us, we can see that what his young lady has done is to elevate a good thing, a date to the prom, to an ultimate thing, a place that only God can hold, and this is the essence of idolatry. It's why and how we violate the first commandment.

Rather than conforming her life to God's commands, she conforms her every word and deed to her idol. She figuratively and literally serves her idol, and we have all done similarly. The problem is that idols never deliver on their promises. When you fail to serve them perfectly they kill you. There is no mercy. The guy in biology class went to the prom with the girl with thinner thighs and a bigger chest. . . Now she wants to kill herself because God didn't make her physically attractive enough to have her idol.

There is nothing innocent about her suicide. It's sin through and through, and if we are to help people like her from the same fate, we must expose and confront the sin and reconcile them to the Living God who, when you let Him down, when you fail Him, dies in order to rescue you.

A first commandment therapy session would be quite horrific to watch I think...

 

[sdowney717]

So...this is what you tell people with depression or post trauma or psychosis?

Why not tell people they are deceived by the devil into suicide. Suicide is murdering oneself, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.
Christ is the eternal life abiding in people and without Christ abiding in you, you will abide in death.

1 John 3:15
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Revelation 22:15
But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Christianity shouldn't sound so harsh, so condemning, so judgemental. People get turned off.

 

[Zoii]

Why not tell people they are deceived by the devil into suicide. Suicide is murdering oneself, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.
Christ is the eternal life abiding in people and without Christ abiding in you, you will abide in death.

OK look..I know you mean well Im guessing - but have u ever tried to speak to a person with a severe paranoid psychosis resulting in suicidal thoughts for example. Telling them that Satan is deceiving them - to a paranoid psychotic individual what do you imagine would happen. I just ask people replying to read some research because this is a really serious topic and the comments shouldnt be potentially harmful

 

[sdowney717]

OK look..I know you mean well Im guessing - but have u ever tried to speak to a person with a severe paranoid psychosis resulting in suicidal thoughts for example. Telling them that Satan is deceiving them - to a paranoid psychotic individual what do you imagine would happen. I just ask people replying to read some research because this is a really serious topic and the comments shouldnt be potentially harmful

The word of God is powerful and active....and frankly is the only hope one has to escape the snares of the devil and to come into the light.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Nithavela]

Only knew the fallout. the fallout of their suicide. The consequences short and long-term.
I think if you could show them a video of the future consequence, they'd change their mind. They'd see it from other people's point of view.

I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that.