If scientists ever created a human clone, would the clone have an immortal soul?

Does a human clone have an immortal soul?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Not Sure


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NNSV

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In my opinion if he didn't want us to do it he would have said so. He didn't speak of computers but billions of faithful use em everyday :)

He didn't speak of penetrating someone in the ear, mouth or swallowing sexually secreted bodily fluids. He didn't speak of Hip Hop music, Rock & Roll, or other new genres of music, but some of the lyrics are directly against God. God didn't specify which movies to watch (since there was no such thing as a movie,) but some movies are pure evil, and are anti-Christian. Some things you can deduce He is against, no? Especially from the model He gave us already.

Computers, like any thing else, are never the problem. What a person does with things is the problem. The thing is we know what is right and wrong, we just try to justify things with our own reasoning instead of God.
 
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jennimatts

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Manipulating DNA before, during or after the womb is abominable in my opinion. We are not gods. If you cannot have a child, maybe that is not His will for YOU.

So, how does Genesis 1:26 relate to your perspective?

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

If mankind is to have dominion over all the earth, wouldn't this grant us authority to manipulate the earth and everything in/on it?
 
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NNSV

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So, how does Genesis 1:26 relate to your perspective?

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

If mankind is to have dominion over all the earth, wouldn't this grant us authority to manipulate the earth and everything in/on it?

No, it doesn't, because we did not create the earth. Moreover, we do not own the earth, though we were given the charge to reign over everything in it. Therefore, since we do not own the earth, we do not have the right to manipulate things as we see fit, because the earth does not belong to us, neither do the creatures in it. We don't even have the right to manipulate ourselves as we see fit because we are not our own, and we were ransomed by God for a price (1 Cor 6:19-20). All souls belong to God (Ezekiel 18:4).

"Radah" is the Hebrew word for "dominion," and its root meaning is "to tread down, subjugate, crumble off, rule over, reign over, prevail against, etc." It doesn't mean "the power and right to manipulate the creation(s) of God."

Genesis 1:26 was the physical image of God's spiritual role in heaven: to have dominion over all things. But, dominion does not mean you get to pollute or manipulate the creation of God as you see fit. It means you rule over what has already been created for you by God.

Anyway, we lost that dominion to satan when Adam and Eve sinned, which is why animals disrespect us enough to attack us, and the world in general is polluted. We wouldn't need technology if we just followed God in the first place: we would have been perfect. The only human, dead or living today, that actually has righteous and lawful dominion over the earth is Christ Yahoshuah.
 
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Matariki

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Humans may be able to reproduce either by natural or artificial means, but its Gods grace that brought that being into life in the first place. Gods blueprints don't change, only mans assembly of them does.
 
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jennimatts

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Manipulating DNA before, during or after the womb is abominable in my opinion. We are not gods. If you cannot have a child, maybe that is not His will for YOU.

Genesis 1:26 was the physical image of God's spiritual role in heaven: to have dominion over all things. But, dominion does not mean you get to pollute or manipulate the creation of God as you see fit. It means you rule over what has already been created for you by God.

If a woman is unable to bear children, it must be a consequence of the fall of man. If mankind never sinned, there would not be any such dysfunction. Why would it be wrong to use medical science to enable her to have children? Why would doing so pollute the creation of God?
 
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jennimatts

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Either way, marriage/procreation/intercourse between a man and a woman is the God-recognized, God-approved way to procreate. You do your job as a human (procreation,) and God gives the conception a spirit. God is the one that knits the child together in the womb (Psalm 139:13). So, a human trying to knit DNA/human with his own hand, then implanting a female to simulate fertilization is an abomination.

Being the "God-recognized, God-approved way to procreate", doesn't prove that all other methods of procreation are an abomination.

Knitting a sweater doesn't mean one is creating a sweater, only forming it of the yarn that already exists / was previously created. Similarly, I believe when God knits a child together, it is clearly describing the stitching together of preexisting DNA. It is not the same as the creation in Genesis.

The phrase "in the womb", I believe is there to make it clear that a child is not just a blob of tissue and that abortion is taking a human life. I don't think it is of the supreme importance which you ascribe in disallowing a clone to have an eternal soul that can receive the gift of salvation.

Even if a scientist tries to knit DNA with his own hand in forming an embryo, I believe the DNA is still only knit together by God, and the resulting child will have the same breath of life given to mankind by God in the Genesis account.
 
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NNSV

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If a woman is unable to bear children, it must be a consequence of the fall of man. If mankind never sinned, there would not be any such dysfunction. Why would it be wrong to use medical science to enable her to have children? Why would doing so pollute the creation of God?

Because, quite frankly, "medical science" has no idea how much of a Pandora's Box the human body is. We think we know so much that the stink of our arrogance almost reaches the ceiling of the earth. In reality, we are more foolish than ever before. And, once we start messing with a creation of God, we are saying we know at least the same as God does about that creation, otherwise why would we mess with it? All evil and calamity is a consequence of the fall of man, yet God is the one that is responsible for restoring us, not man. The only "man" that has restored us is Christ, through His righteousness and perfection.

Using medical science to help someone get pregnant is fine in man's eye, but it may not even be God's plan, especially if it is against His word. You are still assuming your will [to have a child] is God's will (at that time,) despite the infirmary. That is the point: you may think it is YOUR WILL to use medical science to do x-y-z, but it may be the furthest thing from God's will. People in historic times had to rely on God since (we assume) technology was not as advanced as it is today. In this age, science is slowly replacing God.

Sarah was barren, but God made her fertile. The blind man was lame, but God made him whole. It is God's prerogative to bring calamity, or blessings. No one knows what God's plans are with reasonable precision, so how do you know if God doesn't want you blind, or barren (or whatever your trial is,) the same way He wanted the blind man blind, and Sarah barren.

A pollution of God's creation is to change it in a way that is suitable for your will on your own accord, instead of His will on His timing. This includes some forms of "medical science" and pharmaceuticals ("pharmakia" in greek; translated "witchcraft" in English.)
 
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NNSV

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Being the "God-recognized, God-approved way to procreate", doesn't prove that all other methods of procreation are an abomination.

There is only one way of procreation (onah): marriage/sexual union. Insemination and implantation is not marriage (onah), nor is it a sexual union. The only thing we should be doing is things that are God-recognized and God-approved, otherwise who are we working for? God states several times that the union of man and woman is for fruition of the human race. Creating life in any other way is not recognized by God, and therefore should not be an issue.

Knitting a sweater doesn't mean one is creating a sweater, only forming it of the yarn that already exists / was previously created. Similarly, I believe when God knits a child together, it is clearly describing the stitching together of preexisting DNA. It is not the same as the creation in Genesis.
Knitting a sweater does mean one is creating a sweater, just like molding a pot out of clay is still creating a pot. Just because the substance exists doesn't mean it cannot turn into a new creation. This is the metaphor of the dead human spirit becoming a new creation: the soul exists, even existed, died and then restored by faith in Christ. Creation in the bible is "bara" in Hebrew, which means "to create, to cut down (a wood), to select, to do, to dispatch, to make." So, creation from something is the same as creation in the bible. God just so happens to be able to create something out of nothing.

Of course knitting a child together in the womb is synonymous with what we know as DNA combination and replication, etc. However, if you are genetically engineering DNA, you are playing God. He is the one whose job it is to engineer us. When humans engineer themselves, it is called Transhumanism, or H(uman)+, as in "above and beyond the form of human." It is wrong; it exaults the human without incorporating God. It is an example of science superseding faith.

The phrase "in the womb", I believe is there to make it clear that a child is not just a blob of tissue and that abortion is taking a human life. I don't think it is of the supreme importance which you ascribe in disallowing a clone to have an eternal soul that can receive the gift of salvation.
A clone is NOT conceived by marriage (onah), and in most cases is not born of a woman's womb. This is the first qualification given by Christ for souls to be eligible to enter the Kingdom. A clone is created by man, engineered by man, and implanted by man. God is nowhere in the mix. The minute a scientist starts to tinker with genetics is when s/he pollutes the creation(s) of God. The human creator is the one that damns the clone, not the clone, just like the fallen angels damned their offspring the nephilim by synthetic biology (transubstantiation into a form to mate with humans on earth despite the plan of God to be born of woman.)

Even if a scientist tries to knit DNA with his own hand in forming an embryo, I believe the DNA is still only knit together by God, and the resulting child will have the same breath of life given to mankind by God in the Genesis account.
DNA polymerase substrates are often used in the lab to create elementary DNA polymers. In my biology class, one of our labs was to create our own blob of DNA from cheek cells - growing DNA. With genetic engineering, the DNA can be told to make arm cells for example instead of, say, cheek cells. So, a scientist can try to knit DNA together like God, and often times they do "knit" DNA like God. The Designer Children phenomena that occurred in early 2000s was a gross form of genetic engineering, showing ignorance of God. The breath of life is given only by God, through the accepted form of birth. A human creating another human is wrong: case closed. If you want to, feel free to let another imperfect human experiment on your genes.


I think I have opined enough.
 
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Bubblies

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We're gonna just have to agree to disagree I guess.

I agree designer babies, and cloning are dangerous and bad (more for social reasons than spiritual) but I believe every person has a soul. Cloning will not be successful if God chooses not to give them the breath of life.

Just wondering, do you not like any medical science at all?
 
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Amber the Duskbringer

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He didn't speak of penetrating someone in the ear, mouth or swallowing sexually secreted bodily fluids. He didn't speak of Hip Hop music, Rock & Roll, or other new genres of music, but some of the lyrics are directly against God. God didn't specify which movies to watch (since there was no such thing as a movie,) but some movies are pure evil, and are anti-Christian. Some things you can deduce He is against, no? Especially from the model He gave us already.

Computers, like any thing else, are never the problem. What a person does with things is the problem. The thing is we know what is right and wrong, we just try to justify things with our own reasoning instead of God.

LOLWUT?

I think some people just like to be a bit more pious and self righteous than others. You do what you do I do what I do. It's not in the bible its not a sin.
 
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Freedom63

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There is only one way of procreation (onah): marriage/sexual union. Insemination and implantation is not marriage (onah), nor is it a sexual union. The only thing we should be doing is things that are God-recognized and God-approved, otherwise who are we working for? God states several times that the union of man and woman is for fruition of the human race. Creating life in any other way is not recognized by God, and therefore should not be an issue.

Knitting a sweater does mean one is creating a sweater, just like molding a pot out of clay is still creating a pot. Just because the substance exists doesn't mean it cannot turn into a new creation. This is the metaphor of the dead human spirit becoming a new creation: the soul exists, even existed, died and then restored by faith in Christ. Creation in the bible is "bara" in Hebrew, which means "to create, to cut down (a wood), to select, to do, to dispatch, to make." So, creation from something is the same as creation in the bible. God just so happens to be able to create something out of nothing.

Of course knitting a child together in the womb is synonymous with what we know as DNA combination and replication, etc. However, if you are genetically engineering DNA, you are playing God. He is the one whose job it is to engineer us. When humans engineer themselves, it is called Transhumanism, or H(uman)+, as in "above and beyond the form of human." It is wrong; it exaults the human without incorporating God. It is an example of science superseding faith.

A clone is NOT conceived by marriage (onah), and in most cases is not born of a woman's womb. This is the first qualification given by Christ for souls to be eligible to enter the Kingdom. A clone is created by man, engineered by man, and implanted by man. God is nowhere in the mix. The minute a scientist starts to tinker with genetics is when s/he pollutes the creation(s) of God. The human creator is the one that damns the clone, not the clone, just like the fallen angels damned their offspring the nephilim by synthetic biology (transubstantiation into a form

The amount of personal opinion in your post presented as gospel truth is kind of staggering to read. (And none of it substantiated with any biblical support)

I am not a big fan of human cloning...but ALL life is of God. Man cannot create life. He may be able to manipulate it it in various ways...but the miracle of life is the domain of God.
 
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Freedom63

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There is only one way of procreation (onah): marriage/sexual union. Insemination and implantation is not marriage (onah), nor is it a sexual union. The only thing we should be doing is things that are God-recognized and God-approved, otherwise who are we working for? God states several times that the union of man and woman is for fruition of the human race. Creating life in any other way is not recognized by God, and therefore should not be an issue.

Knitting a sweater does mean one is creating a sweater, just like molding a pot out of clay is still creating a pot. Just because the substance exists doesn't mean it cannot turn into a new creation. This is the metaphor of the dead human spirit becoming a new creation: the soul exists, even existed, died and then restored by faith in Christ. Creation in the bible is "bara" in Hebrew, which means "to create, to cut down (a wood), to select, to do, to dispatch, to make." So, creation from something is the same as creation in the bible. God just so happens to be able to create something out of nothing.

Of course knitting a child together in the womb is synonymous with what we know as DNA combination and replication, etc. However, if you are genetically engineering DNA, you are playing God. He is the one whose job it is to engineer us. When humans engineer themselves, it is called Transhumanism, or H(uman)+, as in "above and beyond the form of human." It is wrong; it exaults the human without incorporating God. It is an example of science superseding faith.

A clone is NOT conceived by marriage (onah), and in most cases is not born of a woman's womb. This is the first qualification given by Christ for souls to be eligible to enter the Kingdom. A clone is created by man, engineered by man, and implanted by man. God is nowhere in the mix. The minute a scientist starts to tinker with genetics is when s/he pollutes the creation(s) of God. The human creator is the one that damns the clone, not the clone, just like the fallen angels damned their offspring the nephilim by synthetic biology (transubstantiation into a form to mate with humans on earth despite the plan of God to be born of woman.)

DNA polymerase substrates are often used in the lab to create elementary DNA polymers. In my biology class, one of our labs was to create our own blob of DNA from cheek cells - growing DNA. With genetic engineering, the DNA can be told to make arm cells for example instead of, say, cheek cells. So, a scientist can try to knit DNA together like God, and often times they do "knit" DNA like God. The Designer Children phenomena that occurred in early 2000s was a gross form of genetic engineering, showing ignorance of God. The breath of life is given only by God, through the accepted form of birth. A human creating another human is wrong: case closed. If you want to, feel free to let another imperfect human experiment on your genes.


I think I have opined enough.

The amount of personal opinion in your post presented as gospel truth is kind of staggering to read. (And none of it substantiated with any biblical support)

I am not a big fan of human cloning...but ALL life is of God. Man cannot create life. He may be able to manipulate it it in various ways...but the miracle of life is the domain of God.
 
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CryptoLutheran

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A human being has a human soul. A clone is a human being. A clone therefore has a soul and is his or her own person and would be a creature and child of God just like anyone else.

The ethical ramifications of cloning, as far as I'm concerned, isn't whether the clone is a person or not (they would be, without a doubt), but rather the ways people might react toward cloned persons, as evidenced just in this thread many people would not consider a cloned person a full or entire person--choosing to subject a class of people that we have chosen to produce to a brand new form of prejudice seems quite unethical.

There's no good reason a cloned me would be any different than you or anyone else, as far as being a rational creature, a human being, created in the image of God, with a rational soul and mind and intellect; they would be their own person, you can't clone experience.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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freezerman2000

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I wonder how many polled believe in sola scriptura. If so, please back up your position from the Bible. Where in the Bible does it say in the Bible that a human clone has an immortal soul? Where does the Bible say that Jesus died for clones as well as for mankind? If the Bible says nothing about clones, then how can you for sure?

Clones were an unknown when the NT was written, so how could it say anything about them?
A clone is like an identical twin, the only difference being it was not fertilized in a natural manner...Would God be so vindictive that He would send the copy to hell even if he or she accepts Christ as their personal Savior? I could never believe that my God would or could be so cruel.
 
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