If scientists ever created a human clone, would the clone have an immortal soul?

Does a human clone have an immortal soul?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Not Sure


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packermann

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I think it is probably just a matter of time that this happens.

Can and should we preach the gospel to a human clone? Can we tell a human clone that Christ died for his sins? Does a human clone face the promise of heaven or the threat of hell if he accepts or rejects Christ?
 

elopez

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I'm going to put not sure for now. I tend to think not though as God instilled the soul into our first parents to which we acquire it through conception. Our soul essentially derives from our parents and as a clone would not be birthed it seems it would have no soul.

Unless God instilled the soul into the clone which almost seems like an option, but then again I don't see any basis for that? I guess we wouldn't be able to know anyway even if there were human clones as the soul is not detectable.
 
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Lord Herdsetk

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God gave us the ability to make more life. I would consider cloning an unorthodox, unnatural method of creating life. However, creating life is still life.

Basically, it would be the same as if we created another person through sex. The original and the clone are like a candle's flame lighting another candle. Both candles are lit by the same flame and of the same make, but they are two totally different candles. One candle can be put out while the other continues. One can still burn faster than the other. They can be separated or put together in the same room. Regardless, they are now both separate living beings.

That being said, I still don't like the idea of human cloning.
 
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packermann

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I wonder how many polled believe in sola scriptura. If so, please back up your position from the Bible. Where in the Bible does it say in the Bible that a human clone has an immortal soul? Where does the Bible say that Jesus died for clones as well as for mankind? If the Bible says nothing about clones, then how can you for sure?
 
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MasterpieceMesias

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clonetroopers.jpg

. . . lol sorry I just had to post that pic
 
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bricklayer

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Human-life does not begin with conception or birth.
Human-life began with the creation of Adam and is continued through conceptions and births.
It can be argued that Eve was "cloned" from Adam.

God created one human-flesh, in Adam.
God created one human-spirit, in Adam.
All human bodies are composed of human-flesh.
All human souls are composed of human-spirit.

If humans ever clone another human, it will be composed of living human-flesh and it will have a dead human-soul, just like the one we were born with. Human-spirit died, in Adam. We all inherit dead human-spirit, we were all born with dead souls. The potential clone would be no different.
 
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NNSV

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I think it is probably just a matter of time that this happens.

Can and should we preach the gospel to a human clone? Can we tell a human clone that Christ died for his sins? Does a human clone face the promise of heaven or the threat of hell if he accepts or rejects Christ?


I think the answer to all of the questions is NO, because man cannot create spirit, nor can he destroy a spirit.

Man creating man is [darn near] an abomination, because man is not the author of life, so creating life would be playing God. Man cannot create spirit either, so a clone would be tantamount to a functioning terrestrial body with sentience, but not a spirit. Moreover, man is in its infancy, failing to understand the intricacies of our own bodies and planet. How, then, could we be so arrogant to create another life?

As far as clones making it to heaven: every human must be born of a water (a woman's womb,) and then of the spirit, to be accepted into Christ's Kingdom. Since clones are not birthed, but rather created, a clone cannot enter the kingdom. Intercourse/Marriage is the God-recognized way for humans to create life, not implantation or test-tube-to-womb insemination. It pollutes the plan of life for God.

Cloning is similar to the phenomena of the angels leaving their first habitation, and mating with human females to create offspring that were half angelic, half human (Nephilim, Anakim, etc.) The angels cannot create spirit (and they are not human), and they decided to create a life by falling to this dimension, instead of being born in this dimension, then mating. The nephilim are banned from heaven, as well as their angelic fathers. "Demons" are said to be the spirits of human/angel entities that have died, tormenting the men of earth. The reason demons still "live" is because their fathers were full spirits (angels,) and a spirit never dies unless God kills it; hence, if you go to Hell as a human, you are there forever as a consequence of your immortal God-given spirit. The fallen angels are locked in chains right now, but even they are not dead.

So, I would say clones do not have a place in Heaven, even if they accept Christ, because they are not born of a woman's womb, or the process is a pollution of procreation (implantation or something else.)


However, I do believe that, like the angels, the author of such abominations would be punished more harshly than the product (clones).
 
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Bubblies

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The clone wouldn't necessarily not be birthed. A clone doesn't just get made as an adult in a cloning machine. It's just replicating DNA, and that clone would probably be made in a lab, in a tube, but then put inside a woman to carry and birth.
If they ever successfully clone, I don't see why it wouldn't have a soul.
 
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NNSV

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The clone wouldn't necessarily not be birthed. A clone doesn't just get made as an adult in a cloning machine. It's just replicating DNA, and that clone would probably be made in a lab, in a tube, but then put inside a woman to carry and birth.
If they ever successfully clone, I don't see why it wouldn't have a soul.

That is what I am saying, a human not born of a woman is not eligible for the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ said specifically that if you are not born of woman, and of spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom (John 3:4-6). Born of woman meaning an egg fertilized by a human, and born of her bag of waters. Clones do not have souls because a human cannot create a spirit, only God can create a spirit.

If you replicate DNA, and implant it into a woman, you are still creating a human. You are just using the woman as a vessel to hold the fetus, but if you can clone a human I wouldn't doubt the technology to replicate the conditions of a womb would be possible. So, really the woman is useless for cloning except to be a vessel for the body. It doesn't even have to be her genetic child, the blood types need to agree. That is a pollution of life as per God's commands and statutes. A woman is much more than a vessel for pregnancy, especially while pregnant.

Either way, marriage/procreation/intercourse between a man and a woman is the God-recognized, God-approved way to procreate. You do your job as a human (procreation,) and God gives the conception a spirit. God is the one that knits the child together in the womb (Psalm 139:13). So, a human trying to knit DNA/human with his own hand, then implanting a female to simulate fertilization is an abomination.
 
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jennimatts

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Human-life does not begin with conception or birth.
Human-life began with the creation of Adam and is continued through conceptions and births.
It can be argued that Eve was "cloned" from Adam.

God created one human-flesh, in Adam.
God created one human-spirit, in Adam.
All human bodies are composed of human-flesh.
All human souls are composed of human-spirit.

If humans ever clone another human, it will be composed of living human-flesh and it will have a dead human-soul, just like the one we were born with. Human-spirit died, in Adam. We all inherit dead human-spirit, we were all born with dead souls. The potential clone would be no different.


I agree. Mankind was created once "with the creation of Adam". The clone would still be a descendant of Adam, and therefore could be saved.
 
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NNSV

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I can't quote coz I'm on my phone, but NNSV, are you saying IVF-concieved children will not be in heaven?

I believe you're taking that born of the water verse out of context.


Believe what you want, but Christ was very specific about the conditions to enter the earth. Now, if you are implanting HUMAN SPERM (untouched biochemically) into a HUMAN FEMALE BODY (egg), and naturally let the processes evolve, then that is a different topic, though I still believe that to be spiritually problematic. But, if ya human is the main member involved in the creation and evolution of a human (through genetic modifications, gene manipulation, or DNA replications, etc.), that is most definitely abominable. It is not our job to genetically engineer anything on this earth.

If you cannot have children through procreation, then perhaps it is God's will. Look at Sarah: she was barren for many years after her puberty, well into her old age. However, it was a test of her faith to wait on God, and she would be rewarded. That is why she named Isaac as she did, which means "laughter" in Hebrew, because all she could do is laugh when she got pregnant at 90 years old. God can make anything happen, so humans especially do not need to get involved in "the game/science of creating life." Have we cured cancer, AIDS, HIV, MRSA, or anything else that is rapidly decreasing the population? We still have more important things to worry about rather than "creating" life.
 
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Bubblies

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John 3 is just Jesus explaining what it means to be "born again." He is not saying if you're not born of the womb, you're not going to Heaven, He's explaining to the Jewish man, who has kept all the commandments or whatever, that that isn't enough. The physical is born from physical, and the spirit from spirit, just being an upright Jewish man isn't enough.

People born of IVF, and surrogacy are just as much human - spirit and physical - as those conceived at a party during high school, or in a 'marital bed'. A clone wouldn't be any different (literally :p).
 
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jennimatts

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Either way, marriage/procreation/intercourse between a man and a woman is the God-recognized, God-approved way to procreate. You do your job as a human (procreation,) and God gives the conception a spirit. God is the one that knits the child together in the womb (Psalm 139:13). So, a human trying to knit DNA/human with his own hand, then implanting a female to simulate fertilization is an abomination.

If one man is blessed of God, it does not follow that all other men are cursed. Concluding that a clone would be cursed simply because he/she wasn't conceived in a conventional manner is likewise an invalid assumption.

conception ≠ creation
 
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jennimatts

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...genetic modifications, gene manipulation, or DNA replications, etc.), that is most definitely abominable. It is not our job to genetically engineer anything on this earth.
...
Have we cured cancer, AIDS, HIV, MRSA, or anything else that is rapidly decreasing the population? We still have more important things to worry about rather than "creating" life.

What if the cure for Cancer involves genetic engineering?
 
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NNSV

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I know how long the CF forums can go, so I will lastly state my opinion and it can be taken or left at the doorstop.



A human MUST be born of a woman's bag of waters through marriage. Marriage in Hebrew is "onar," which means "sexual cohabitation." There was no artificial insemination in Christ's time, which is why He was so specific about birth, and who can enter the Kingdom (the word is living.) You can choose to contextualize His words, but if He wanted us to artificially inseminate ourselves, clone ourselves, or anything similar, He would have said so, and made it clear. It is not a human's job to create any form of life, because GOD is the author of life (not us.)

Moreover, as I said before, a HUMAN CANNOT CREATE A SPIRIT. So, whereas we may be dead in the spirit now, our grandparents Adam and Eve were given spirit, and through sin and then procreation created a people of deep spiritual ineptitude. But, ineptitude is not the same as non-existence. Even death is not the same as "never existing," like the spirit of a cloned human would be. We can have our spirits revived by Christ, but how can you revive something that was neither alive, nor dead to begin with (because a human created by a human does not have a spirit.) Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, etc. has sex (onah) in order to produce more humans. They did not have any hand in forming the baby in the womb, combining and recombining DNA, deciding which genes to turn on and off, etc (except sexual intercourse and nutrition.) God knits us in the womb.

I am sure there are genetic ways to create cures, but in this techonocosmos haven't you noticed that when one thing is "cured," three more types of deadly and incurable things seem to come up. It is because everything on this earth is supposed to be natural, and naturally evolve. Sure, we can cure cancer, but we realize an incurable strain of bacteria surfaces because we have, say, deforested most all of the rain forest to build metropolis. It is man's attempt to escape the judgment of God, which says WE WILL DIE. Every man is deserving of one death. I am not against cures and health, but I am against synthetic biology (pharmacy mainly, and cloning.) I believe God is against anything synthetic because it isn't the truth.

Manipulating DNA before, during or after the womb is abominable in my opinion. We are not gods. If you cannot have a child, maybe that is not His will for YOU.

I believe humans try to take away judgments of God, and His times of testing, by using technology. If you are naturally barren, it is not your job as a human to make your womb fertile: it is God's job. The argument that "God works through science/scientists" is so hackneyed that it has blurred the ethical line, not to mention the spiritual line. God does not need doctors, or physicists, to help/cure/save His people. People talk about why God doesn't heal amputees, but many of those people miss the important concept of FAITH and LONG-SUFFERING. If you naturally let God work you will gain much more than cheaply trying to rely on some synthetic means of what you think is bettering yourself.

The blind man that Jesus healed was an old man before his eyesight was restored. Consequently, it was a test of the blind man's faith to make it as long as he did without sight, and his faith was rewarded by Christ performing a miracle. He was used as an instrument of God in revealing Himself to us. People do not realize how dangerous synthetic biology is because "science and technology" often tries to justify itself separate from spirituality. However, the line is very fine and scientists, doctors, etc. often cross it, and influence others to believe this step over the line is benign when it is wicked.

God is the only one that gives spirit. Humans can create masses of complex cells and structures (known as a humanoids) until there are no more elements left in the world, but it doesn't mean any of them have a God-given spirit just because man made them. And it especially doesn't mean this humanoid qualifies to receive a God-given spirit, as they were not knitted by God in the first place (but by man.) In fact, if the process was synthetic, and not through the water of birth (by "onah,") then the creature has no God-given spirit. Being a fleshly terran is not the same as being human.


That is my 2 cents. I respect other people's opinion in support of gene therapy, manipulation and engineering, and have researched these topics on my own (and in academia.) However, I staunchly disagree with the scientific status-quo, and I believe Christ would also.
 
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