If Man progresses to monkey, why is he not good at monkey things? At least partly??

[Sparagmos]

Yes they do, they are copies of you, or me. A child is born with two different set of traits mixed together.

But that does not prove your point to evolution, it is just a stone wall to the argument.

I did not make a point about evolution. And your child does NOT carry all of your traits, they are not copies of you.

 

[expos4ever]

deleted own post.

 

[expos4ever]

Not only do i understand it, but I do not think you understand it one bit, if you did, you would see if we evolved from anything, we would share all its traits. The thing is, Humans, only have human traits.

I may have misunderstood another of your posts, and I apologize for that. However, I do not believe that evolution says we would share all the traits of something we evolved from. I guess it depends on what you mean by traits - we evolved from very primitive life forms with whom we do not share many characteristics. Perhaps you can clarify what you mean by a "trait"?

 

[The Barbarian]

There was a time when "scientists" thought the sun revolved around the earth and the earth was flat. Anyone believing the scientists of today have everything correctly figured out is just as wrong as in the earlier time. The point is that they now know more than they did--they have evolved.

By the time there were scientists as we would use the term - about 500 BC Greek philosophers - they already knew that the Earth was a sphere. And while not everyone agreed, by about 250BC, Aristarchus of Samos showed that the Sun was much larger than the Earth, and that the Earth went around the Sun.

 

[Great_Depression]

“Cave men” existed ages and ages before the people we call “native Americans.”

You have left out Eastern/Asian civilization when you say there were large gaps in the development of civilization. For instance, during the so called “dark age” of western civilization, China was experiencing a golden age of progress under the Tang Dynasty. What about the Persian empire, the Angkor empire, the Byzantine empire, the mesoamerican empires?

Scroll down in the link to the timeline and you can see all of the civilizations all over the world.

World History Timeline | Essential Humanities

The dark ages were from around 500 -1000 CE, only about 500 years (which were only “dark” in one part of the world.
Dark Ages (historiography) - Wikipedia

Even within western civilization, you jumped from the dark ages to the enlightenment and skipped the Renaissance...?

Anyway, what does this have to do with evolution? Even if a worldwide dark age existed, why would that disprove evolution?

The dark ages are usually said to have exusted from 500AD - 1500AD but I do agree that's a tad to far and it's more like 800 years instead of 1000.

I did give a hat tip to the Renaissance when I said "religious reform" but didn't use the word. No I didn't take the time to talk every point in history. That would take forever £I did however mention asian cultures as being more adavanced than native americans.

Here's one point being made if man evolved from "cave men" then why were the native americans so much further behind than europe and asia? All of them are humans. Are you saying some humans evolved faster or differently than other humans? We would be the only species that would have had so drastically different evolutions just by going a few thousand miles over an ocean. Basically if any human group would have been cave men it wouldnhave been native americans and even they were fairly civilized.

Are cats from american more or less evolved than cats from europe. No, they simply evolved into cats, if evolution existed that is.

What I'm saying is, is evolution does not exist. We did not descend from any other things but humans. I do believe however men can become more intelligent or have periods of "darkness" so to speak. It is very clear that there is chunks and gaps in history where man did not progress but would then have huge periods of progress.

That may sound close to evolution but that's is not what I'm saying.

 

[The Barbarian]

Here's one point being made if man evolved from "cave men" then why were the native americans so much further behind than europe and asia? All of them are humans.

You might want to read Jared Diamond's "Germs, Guns, and Steel" to get some idea why. It's very doubtful if our brains have evolved much from Bronze Age times. Intellectual and technical advancements are social and geographical issues. During the Medieval period, China was far more advanced than Europe. It's geographical and social that makes a difference.

Are you saying some humans evolved faster or differently than other humans? We would be the only species that would have had so drastically different evolutions just by going a few thousand miles over an ocean.

Because of gene flow, humans are essentially one sub-species. There are no biological human races now. So there isn't very much difference in evolution. This was pointed up by the Yerkes Army Studies during WWI. They took IQ test on recruits, compiling different data on "races" and states. Racists made much of the fact that blacks had lower IQs, saying that whites were innately smarter than blacks.

Problem with that was the tests also showed that blacks from northern states had higher IQs than whites from southern states, so it was pretty much all cultural.

Basically if any human group would have been cave men it wouldnhave been native americans and even they were fairly civilized.

Mayans, because of their religious beliefs and necessity of tracking time accurately, came up with the concept of 0 and decimals before Europe had them. So that's not quite right, either. On the other hand, we do see that for Ashkenazi Jews, there is some evidence for intelligence being selected for, mostly because they lived in Europe, which was often hostile to them. But it's not very much, even then.

What I'm saying is, is evolution does not exist.

It's directly observed. Perhaps you don't know what "evolution" means.

We did not descend from any other things but humans.

But those other humans did. We are just the latest species of Homo.

 

[expos4ever]

There was a time when "scientists" thought the sun revolved around the earth and the earth was flat. Anyone believing the scientists of today have everything correctly figured out is just as wrong as in the earlier time. The point is that they now know more than they did--they have evolved.

You seem, repeat seem, to be implying that evolution will be discarded just as the flat earth idea was discarded. For a variety of reasons, I think this is unlikely. I hope to elaborate in a subsequent post.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Yahweh weeps.

I can't really blame him given the stupidity displayed by some on this thread.

 

[Sparagmos]

The dark ages are usually said to have exusted from 500AD - 1500AD but I do agree that's a tad to far and it's more like 800 years instead of 1000.

I did give a hat tip to the Renaissance when I said "religious reform" but didn't use the word. No I didn't take the time to talk every point in history. That would take forever £I did however mention asian cultures as being more adavanced than native americans.

Here's one point being made if man evolved from "cave men" then why were the native americans so much further behind than europe and asia? All of them are humans. Are you saying some humans evolved faster or differently than other humans? We would be the only species that would have had so drastically different evolutions just by going a few thousand miles over an ocean. Basically if any human group would have been cave men it wouldnhave been native americans and even they were fairly civilized.

Are cats from american more or less evolved than cats from europe. No, they simply evolved into cats, if evolution existed that is.

What I'm saying is, is evolution does not exist. We did not descend from any other things but humans. I do believe however men can become more intelligent or have periods of "darkness" so to speak. It is very clear that there is chunks and gaps in history where man did not progress but would then have huge periods of progress.

That may sound close to evolution but that's is not what I'm saying.

So you say you didn’t mention other cultures to save time but those other cultures filled your “gaps.” So I’m not sure why you thought the prescience of gaps in cultural development disprove evolution, but there really aren’t any long gaps in human progress. Cultures and empires rise and fall, but humans are certainly progressing. Where exactly were these “gaps?” I think they were few and far between, unless you ignore eastern civilization.

Obviously different cultures advance at different paces and in different ways. What does that have to do with biological evolution? Native American humans are no less evolved biologically than European humans. The biggest difference you see biologically is that humans that evolved in different areas are different foods and we see some differences in the bodies’ responses to certain foods.

Please explain why “gaps” in cultural progress disprove biological evolution, and how they disprove that humans are related to apes.

I’m attaching a link to “caveman” in Wikipedia so that you can see cavemen are something depicted in art and literature but not an actual thing. I took your post to refer to the Neanderthal, is that correct?
Caveman - Wikipedia

 

[Danielwright2311]

I may have misunderstood another of your posts, and I apologize for that. However, I do not believe that evolution says we would share all the traits of something we evolved from. I guess it depends on what you mean by traits - we evolved from very primitive life forms with whom we do not share many characteristics. Perhaps you can clarify what you mean by a "trait"?

First off I will love to say we where created by God so its impossible for us to evolve.

If you do not understand what I mean by traits read the original posters post.

 

[Danielwright2311]

I did not make a point about evolution. And your child does NOT carry all of your traits, they are not copies of you.

Yes they are complete copy's of me in every way, I have children and until you do, you have no clue on what you are saying unless, you do have children and completely ignore them?

 

[Great_Depression]

So you say you didn’t mention other cultures to save time but those other cultures filled your “gaps.” So I’m not sure why you thought the prescience of gaps in cultural development disprove evolution, but there really aren’t any long gaps in human progress. Cultures and empires rise and fall, but humans are certainly progressing. Where exactly were these “gaps?” I think they were few and far between, unless you ignore eastern civilization.

Obviously different cultures advance at different paces and in different ways. What does that have to do with biological evolution? Native American humans are no less evolved biologically than European humans. The biggest difference you see biologically is that humans that evolved in different areas are different foods and we see some differences in the bodies’ responses to certain foods.

Please explain why “gaps” in cultural progress disprove biological evolution, and how they disprove that humans are related to apes.

I’m attaching a link to “caveman” in Wikipedia so that you can see cavemen are something depicted in art and literature but not an actual thing. I took your post to refer to the Neanderthal, is that correct?
Caveman - Wikipedia

Yes when I say cave man I mean neanderthals walking around with clubs going 'ugh'.

I think you have misunderstood me and me you, possibly. I am not saying that the periods of, we'll say, 'super intelligence' or 'progress' followed by periods of what seems to be overall a decline in intelliegence disproves evolution in itself.

I am just simply saying these things happened. Yes while the europeans were 'progressing' Asia may have not been. That would be a decline for them.

It could be argued that humans seem to operate on a wave of up swings and down swings. I just don't believe humans descended from apes on any level or believe that man was ever a neanderthal saying 'ugh'. Even in the most uncivilized form, such as native americans or african tribes. Both these had heirarchy, family units, villages, customs, rules, language, etc. Sure they were less progressed than europe or asia by our standards but a far cry from cavemen.

I hope that makes sense. We could probably get our points across much better face to face compared to text. That's normally the case.

 

[Sparagmos]

Yes they are complete copy's of me in every way, I have children and until you do, you have no clue on what you are saying unless, you do have children and completely ignore them?

Then they would be a clone. This is pretty elementary. Obviously your child does not look exactly like you and does not have the same DNA. Besides, according to your odd argument, wouldn’t you need to have all of the same traits as your great great great great grandfather?

 

[Danielwright2311]

Then they would be a clone. This is pretty elementary. Obviously your child does not look exactly like you and does not have the same DNA. Besides, according to your odd argument, wouldn’t you need to have all of the same traits as your great great great great grandfather?

They are clones, of me and my ex wife,

I do have all the same traits of my grandfather also, looks and thoughts and actions and the way we live.

Twins who never meet married the same named husbands, wears the same kind of clothes and says the same things the same way, lives in the same type of house and buys the same type of cars, the same color of house in every way.

They both have the same traits, there is way more to genes and dna and traits then you know.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes they are complete copy's of me in every way,

No. They have about half of your genes, and half of your spouse's. But we all have a few dozen alleles that didn't exist in either of our parents. They showed up as mutations.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes when I say cave man I mean neanderthals walking around with clubs going 'ugh'.

Generally, Neandertals built shelters and used stone-tipped weapons and tools.

Neanderthals built homes with mammoth bones

And since they are now known to have a cricoid cartilage and hyoid bone like ours, they could almost certainly speak.

I think you have misunderstood me and me you, possibly. I am not saying that the periods of, we'll say, 'super intelligence' or 'progress' followed by periods of what seems to be overall a decline in intelliegence disproves evolution in itself.

Do you think that medieval people were not as capable of rational thought as the ancient Greeks or as as we are today? That would be wrong. Intelligence is largely the result of social experience, not innate ability. The Flynn effect, which shows intelligence has been increasing over the past hundred years far faster than evolution could possibly do it, demonstrates that.

I am just simply saying these things happened. Yes while the europeans were 'progressing' Asia may have not been. That would be a decline for them.

Social trends are not evolution. If Zheng He had gone a bit farther in his explorations, a Chinese fleet would have turned up in Europe before Columbus made his trip. Fortunately for the west, the Ming went into a decline shortly after, or we might be now recovering from a colonial period, and America would be filled with Asian societies.

It could be argued that humans seem to operate on a wave of up swings and down swings. I just don't believe humans descended from apes on any level or believe that man was ever a neanderthal saying 'ugh'.

If you're of European descent, you very likely have Neandertal genes. Neandertals left descendants, and they dominated the world for centuries.

Even in the most uncivilized form, such as native americans

Mayans had a more sophisticated and effective mathematics than Europe, until the Arabs passed on Indian numerals and the zero.

If you're truly interested in this, you've got a lot of reading to do. Good luck.

 

[Sparagmos]

They are clones, of me and my ex wife,

I do have all the same traits of my grandfather also, looks and thoughts and actions and the way we live.

Twins who never meet married the same named husbands, wears the same kind of clothes and says the same things the same way, lives in the same type of house and buys the same type of cars, the same color of house in every way.

They both have the same traits, there is way more to genes and dna and traits then you know.

Ok I can’t tell if this is satire or you are serious because you are making ridiculous statements that anyone who has taken biology 101 can refute. So I’ll just leave the convo where it is and encourage you to read a bit about evolution and genetics.

 

[expos4ever]

Yes they are complete copy's of me in every way

No.

 

[Queller]

A female mate is able to distinguish particular strengths in her partner she would like to mate with, what are you saying it has nothing to do with strength for?

It's not necessarily physical strength that a female looks for. It could emotional strength; intellectual strength; financial strength; even "makes me laugh" strength.

 

[Queller]

A teacher knowing he is from "an ape", is compelled to seek inspiration from the ape

What makes you think that? I accept that apes and man have common ancestors. That doesn't mean I go looking to apes for "inspiration".